CC Sabathia to the Brewers for Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson, and Michael Brantley

[Bruce Ciskie]

maybe I look at this differently than some people. We have gone many many years without making the playoffs, and we have a great shot at it this year and if we get in, we have a great shot to go deep into the playoffs. So I say why the hell not go for it? I'll worry about the future later on.

 

If we didn't have one of the best farm systems in baseball, led by one of the best scouts in baseball, I would probably disagree with this.

 

I don't believe in mortgaging the future for a rental player. I just don't. The teams that do that are typically the big-money teams that just throw cash at the holes created by trading young talent for veterans who don't re-sign.

 

But this isn't one of those situations. Yes, Sabathia is a rental, but we're not mortgaging the future. If anything, giving Jack Z. five of the first 35 picks in the draft next June only strengthens the future.

 

It's one of the best trades this franchise has ever made, both in terms of the risk involved (quite low, actually), the damage done to the farm system (very little), and the message it sends (trying to win right now, instead of "wait 'til next year again").

[Bruce Ciskie]

So based on rluzinski saying CC is worth only 2 games, we could have a rotation of Sheets, CC, CC, CC and Parra for the final 74 games and if everyone else played as they have been we wouldn't even win the division. I find that hard to believe.

 

I understood where he was coming from, but I guess I don't see how C.C. is only worth two wins. You're replacing Seth McClung in the starting rotation with the guy who won the AL Cy Young last year.

 

Sorry. I don't see that. I'd love a further explanation.

[splitterpfj]

I am also not looking at the draft picks as consolation for losing CC since it is doubtful we will pick players nearly as good as LaPorta or Green.

Really? Why is that?

 

At worst, the Brewers will receive a supplemental first round pick, and a second round pick when Sabathia leaves, more likely, they will receive a first round pick and a supplemental first round pick. LaPorta was taken in round one, Green was taken in round twenty-five.

 

LaPorta should become a fine major league ballplayer, but he is limited to 1B, LF, or RF - positions which are currently manned by Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun and Corey Hart - you would really rather see one of the three best hitters on the team dealt for pitching, to keep the kid who's owned AA? Even if the decision is made to move Prince for pitching help at some point, the Brewers have Brad Nelson, and Chris Errecart in the high minors right now, or perhaps Mat Gamel becomes a first baseman at the big league level - there are options.

 

Right now, after this trade, the Brewers may have a Top 5 minor league system, and next June they'll dominate the draft again. Ten AA All-Stars, not one.

[endaround]

I depends on A)the replace McClung vs replacing Bush and B) if McCung is the 4.75 ERA guy he's pitching like right now or the 5.5 ERA guy he's been

[Crewin06]

Sorry if this has already been stated. 31 pages is a lot to go through.

 

Anyword on who the PTBNL is?

 

Everyone is saying Taylor Green.

 

To me Green doesn't make any sense because if it was Taylor Green why wouldn't they just announce Taylor Green?

 

I am guessing it is someone from the draft class.

 

Just hope it is not Lawrie, Odorizzi, or Frederickson and I think it was a great trade.

 

If it was Odorizzi or Frederickson I think it was a trade the Brewers had to make.

 

If it is Lawrie or Taylor Green I just hope the Brewers win the World Series.

 

I may be way off on the PTBNL thing but Taylor Green just does not make sense to me.

[DannoMac21]

maybe I look at this differently than some people. We have gone many many years without making the playoffs, and we have a great shot at it this year and if we get in, we have a great shot to go deep into the playoffs. So I say why the hell not go for it? I'll worry about the future later on.

 

I agree. I'd rather see us make the big move to go for it all this year, rather than missing the playoffs by 2 games and making you think "what if?" Not to mention, this may be the best team we would've put together than we could've even with LaPorta the next couple years. I'd rather see team and playoff success rather than individual success at the big league level. So what if he becomes a stud? We took the chance we had to take. Just be glad we didn't give up Gamel and run. Who knows how the team will be a few years from now with LaPorta, the Brewers did the right thing, and easily made the right PR move.

[TheCrew07]

I looked at the 2009 draft some last night, which is something I don't typically concern myself with until March or April preceding the draft. If both Sheets and CC walk and are signed by the teams I would expect them to be signed by, the Brewers will have 5 picks in the first 35, and this draft looks to be loaded with quality HS bats. Colby might weigh in on this, but with all of the pitching last year and Lawrie there is the potential to completely reload with an entire wave of pitching (2008) and hitting (2009) that will be essentially be ready at the same time.

 

As I mentioned I hate to give up Green, because he's versitile (sp?) with power and LH, but the future could be pretty outstanding.

[lukevan]

I don't understand how anyone can not like the fact that we just acquired CC Sabathia. If you're upset about the prospects we lost, at least be excited for the 2008 Brewers and the possibility that this team could be a world series contender. It's always a risk to put it on the line and go for the playoffs in a deal like this, but isn't this what we've been wanting for so long? LaPorta may turn out to be a great player (probably will) but considering the depth at Huntsville and at the major league club (Braun, Hart, Fielder all blocking him -- now my money is on Fielder being a Brewer for a couple more seasons), it's no tragedy to have to part with him.

[Team Canada]

bklyn, you seem to be implying that somehow Sheets leaving is connected to trading for Sabathia, which doesn't make any sense. We have the same ability to sign Sheets (or not) that we did before the trade.

[theavrock]

What is the address for the big cub forum?

 

www.northsidebaseball.com

[Crewin06]

Also I keep hearing 5 picks in the first 35.

 

Isn't it really about 5 picks in the first around 60 again depending on who signs Sheets and Sabathia???

 

We are not guaranteed a first rounder for those two I don't believe.

[Boy Jeenius]

I'm a bit fuzzy on the PTBN rules, but I think it says that the specified player must be named within 6 months. Don't draftees have to stay with a club for 12 months after their signing date before they are traded? If this is the case, no current draftees will be included.

[Brian the Automator]

Also I keep hearing 5 picks in the first 35.

 

Isn't it really about 5 picks in the first around 60 again depending on who signs Sheets and Sabathia???

 

We are not guaranteed a first rounder for those two I don't believe.

Generally speaking, teams with the higher payrolls that can support Sheets or Sabathia tend to finish higher in the rankings. So no, 5 out of the first 35 isn't guaranteed, but there's a decent shot 1 or both with give you another team's first rounder.

 

[Trowekamp]

Another thing to take into consideration.. do you think the Indians thought they would tank this year after being in the playoffs last year? I am sure they thought they would go on a 3-4 year run with their pitching and nucleus and now they might go into full fire sale mode less than 1 year later.. If you would have gone back to last July knowing what you know now and asked them if they could have added Santana as a rental would they have done it, they would have definitely done it to try to win the world series when the opportunity presented themselves..

 

Now it is not a direct oranges to oranges comparison but I think that recent history such as that shows the frailty in sports of trying to wait for next year?

 

Do you have to think long term? Absolutely, but if you have a legitimate shot to win a world series (and even the staunchest opponents admit this improved the Brewers) you have to take it because nobody can predict if they have another chance.. or if they are beset by injuries and slumps next year and it is another 20+ years before they are here again.

[Crewin06]

I'm a bit fuzzy on the PTBN rules, but I think it says that the specified player must be named within 6 months. Don't draftees have to stay with a club for 12 months after their signing date before they are traded? If this is the case, no current draftees will be included.

 

That could be.

 

I guess I just don't get why they wouldn't just name Taylor Green in the trade instead of putting him down as the PTBNL. If your rules are right maybe its someone from last draft class that didn't sign till later. RJ Seidel comes to mind. Maybe it is dependant on whether the Brewers go to the post season or how far they get. Or maybe I am way over thinking this and Doug Melvin and Shapiro just wanted to mess with us and it will be Taylor Green.

[bullox]

I guess I just don't get why they wouldn't just name Taylor Green in the trade instead of putting him down as the PTBNL.

I've read somewhere throughout this thread and the thread in the Rumors forum that the Indians wanted to take a closer look at Green at the 2B position to decide if he is their last piece for this trade or if they would rather go with someone else.

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

I believe the Indians want some additional time to scout a short list of players Melving and Shapiro would have agreed to include as the player to be named later. Probably 4-5 prospects in the low minors who Cleveland scouts just want to see play more games before deciding who best fits their needs.

[fondybrewfan]

Some guy at northside baseball posted that Steve Stone just said on the radio that JJ Hardy is the PTBNL? Is he on crack, could it be remotely true, or does Steve Stone have no professionalism whatsoever and is just making crap up at this point?

[LUKE232323]

If the PTBNL was Hardy, there would be a mass riot in the city of Milwaukee. There is just no way they'd trade Hardy during a pennant race with the tear he's on now.

[Tbadder]

Look, I really see this trade as the 2 picks will make up for Green (can't convince me Cleveland wouldn't take him, until they don't) and others. So it's really LaPorta for CC. I think that's fair. A little risky, but as others have pointed out he's a duplicate.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

After the break it sets up as CC, Sheets, Parra, Suppan and Bush/McClung with me leaning towards McClung in the pen not because I like Bush more, I'd prefer it the other way, but Seth seems to be better out of the pen.

I will admit I do like Bush more but do we really want to rely on McClung the rest of the way. I have been presently surprised by what McClung has done as a starter but I keep telling myself it's Seth McClung and it can't last forever. Or is Maddax that much of a genius?

[dpapo]

First, I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this, but the press conference is at 11 this morning and it appears as though Sabathia won't be there.

I guess we'll find out soon who the players involved are, at least 3 of the 4 players. Earlier this morning, Ken Rosenthal wrote the following,

 

"The Indians' four-player return will include Class AA outfielder Matt LaPorta, Class AAA left-hander Zach Jackson, Class A right-hander Rob Bryson and a player to be named, according to major-league sources.

The Indians will choose the player to be named from a select list. They consider that player to be the second-best player in the deal -- a good prospect, sources said. Class A third baseman Taylor Green and outfielder Lorenzo Cain are among the names under consideration."

 

So, that could be the confusion as to the exact players involved. Just like yesterday when Steve Phillips was the only person saying that the inclusion of LaPorta was holding up the deal, I tend to believe Haudricourt and the other multiple sources, then what ESPN was reporting this morning about the players involved.

 

Overall, I think the Brewers gave up too much for Sabathia. I think these types of deals don't work at as well as people think they do. There are exceptions of course, but generally speaking I don't think they make as much of a difference as people think.

Now, Sabathia has the type of talent that he could have a major impact and even an extra 2 or 3 wins could make a big difference. And, I'd rather have Sabathia then Bush or McClung starting. If the Brewers win the world series, then even if LaPorta and Green or whoever turn out to be all-stars it would have been worth it. Otherwise, we'll see how things turn out. Better to debate this, then when the shoe was on the other foot and we were debating prospects the Brewers got for a particular player.

[Crewin06]

I believe the Indians want some additional time to scout a short list of players Melving and Shapiro would have agreed to include as the player to be named later. Probably 4-5 prospects in the low minors who Cleveland scouts just want to see play more games before deciding who best fits their needs.

I guess that makes alot of sense. I just read so much conjecture and guessing represented as fact that I have a hard time believing anything. Whenever I think of a PTBNL I always feel that it is usually the lowest ranking player in the trade. In this case it appears that everyone is thinking the PTBNL is going to easily be the 2nd best prospect the Brewers are giving up.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Here is my biggest problem with the organization as I see it now. We seem to really be putting all our eggs in this seasons basket. With all the unpredicability in baseball is it really wise to risk so many future years on one shot at the playoffs?

I think that with all the unpredicability it is more the reason to go for it this year. Whose to say we have multiple injuries next year and if we do lose Sheets this may be the one chance. It's so easy to go first to last these days, that 2008 is the year to go for broke. WS or bust and my money is on WS.

[brewerfan82]

I just wanted to point out that outside a horrendous 4-game start, Sabathia has been completely ridiculous this year!

 

Since April 17th:

14 GS, 104.3 IP (7.5 IP/G), 9.4 K/G, 1.7 BB/G, 2.16 ERA, 1.01 WHIP

 

That makes me very happy!