CC Sabathia to the Brewers for Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson, and Michael Brantley

[Glennron]

I was just reading NSBB, they sure do have some clowns over there. I had almost forgotten why I quit lurking. This race is much tighter than many of them think, especially if we face off in the playoffs.

To be fair, there only seems to be a few guys who are gigantic homers and have no idea what they're talking about. There's plenty of intelligent/witty posters. To be honest I read it a lot for info on Cubs players who I don't know much about. I hadn't heard of guys like Hoffpaur(sp?) until I looked over there. With that being said, it's still really fun to read when the Cubs have lost a couple in a row http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

 

I'm sorry if it was already mentioned cause I haven't looked through the near 600 posts, but is there really any idea of who the PTBNL is? I realize the point is that we don't know now but was wondering if there's any speculation.

[gregmag]

Some Cards' fans' reactions . . .

 

http://cardsclubhouse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21152

 

I just moved to St. Louis, and I'll be wearing my Brewers regalia out tomorrow.

 

Greg.

[ccbrew]

I created this username nearly three years ago. Clearly, I was the first one to see this coming http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Whoever is doing the updates on C.C.'s website has paid pretty close attention to detail. Even the small #52 'logo' displayed on the Firefox tab is in Brewers typeface.

[SeriesFinale]

Whoever is doing the updates on C.C.'s website has paid pretty close attention to detail. Even the small #52 'logo' displayed on the Firefox tab is in Brewers typeface.

Yeah, they're still getting around to changing the text but some of it's there:

 

Baseball is his passion. Family is his life.

The Brewers are his team. C.C. seems willing to come right out and say what the teams and even the media aren't yet officially.

[ccbrew]

If we do end up losing him this winter, it'll be interesting to see what kind of Ctrl-Find, replace, job the webmaster will have to do.

 

Baseball is his passion. Family is his life. The [Pending, highest bidder] are his team.

[Kurt]

These are what the Cleveland Indians' CC Sabathia brings every time he steps on the mound. Standing at 6'7" and with his trademark hat cocked slightly to the side, Sabathia has the build of a professional football player and the heart of a champion to go along with his flame throwing left arm.....

almost there, webmaster.

[SeriesFinale]

Baseball is his passion. Family is his life. The [Pending, highest bidder] are his team.

 

Well, not to start this already, since we've already been going over this with Big Ben, but I don't fault him as a father and a husband and a son to try and get the best financial situation he can.

 

I don't want to think of the guy as a mercenary at the same time: the team made an investment in him and he is a Brewer and I think he's happy to be here and help the team--his team--make a push for the playoffs and beyond.

 

But if I don't hold these business decisions against someone like Big Ben, who we've come to know and love, I certainly won't hold them against C.C.

[Kurt]

1st MLB team since 1994 to have a cy young award winner as a starter and another as a reliever? Now if only we can get that former cy young award winner in the bullpen to excel.

[bucks2281]

Funny:

 

The guys at the Cardinals forum seem fearful of the Brewers rotation.

The guys at the Cubs forum are almost...laughing at us? They still aren't taking us seriously.

 

Edit: On an unrelated note. mending this rotation makes me much more comfortable about the upcoming road games.

[TooLiveBrew]

The guys at the Cubs forum are almost...laughing at us? They still aren't taking us seriously.

 

Sounds (comfortingly) familiar, doesn't it? I agree that the Cubs are likely still going to stay ahead, but with so many head-to-head games left with them (7 at MP, 3 at Wrigley), the idea that things are settled is ridiculous.

 

Something tells me that once Sabathia starts pitching, things won't look quite so silly anymore.

[LordBeerMeStrength]

The guys at the Cubs forum are almost...laughing at us? They still aren't taking us seriously.

First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they fight you,

then you win.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[LouisEly]

Well, if it were a top prospect I was hoping it would be Escobar, but I can live with LaPorta. I predicted that it wouldn't take more than Weeks/Gillespie/Pena to get it done, and Gillespie/Pena is a lot greater than Jackson/Bryson, and Weeks vs LaPorta is tough to judge - either could still be a star and aren't too far apart in age; LaPorta has mashed so far, but so did Weeks in the minors. Depends on the PTBNL, whom agent39 claims is an "impact player". We'll see, but so far I think LaPorta/Jackson/Bryson/PTBNL is no more value than Weeks/Gillespie/Pena is. Again, we don't know whom the PTBNL is (they say scouts were at B.C., so hopefully it is Brewer or Cain and not Green), but so far this trade has only involved one of their top 20-25 prospects, and I can live with that. Also, they needed to include value to get CC this early, thus the PTBNL.

 

The fact that they kept Gamel and traded LaPorta may signal that they need to keep leftys because Prince may not be a Brewer too much longer (i.e. beyond 2009). Props to X for his reminder that LaPorta is a Boras client, so this may have been inevitable. Gamel could move to 1B to replace Fielder who is dealt for a load including pitching to replace CC and/or Sheets and a 3B if indeed they trade Green. Remember, they still have a HUGE trading chip in Fielder to replace anyone they may trade away.

 

The way the starters have been pitching, my vote would be to ride the hot hands of Bush and McClung and send Suppan to the pen for the time being and DFA Mota. Chances are that Stetter or CV will be on their way back to Nashville (since they have options) and Mota keeps his job.

 

One last thing... if the wheels fall off in July for some reason, could they turn around and trade CC on July 31st?

[obobo55]

After the break it sets up as CC, Sheets, Parra, Suppan and Bush/McClung with me leaning towards McClung in the pen not because I like Bush more, I'd prefer it the other way, but Seth seems to be better out of the pen.

Well, whomever starts the first two games out of the break (Fri 18th & Sat 19th) would also both pitch in the series against the Cards (23rd & 24th) and Cubs (28th & 29th). They would also be up for two of our road games in ATL (Aug 2-3) as we don't get an off-day until Aug 7. That has to be a combination of CC and Sheets, I would expect CC to go in the first game since Sheets has to go in the AS game.

Mon-McClung

Tues-CC

Wed-Parra

Thurs-Sheets, sets him up for 4 days rest till all star appearance

Fri-Bush

Sat-Suppan

Sun-CC

So by Thursday, McClung is available for bullpen duty...ready to take over for Bush or Suppan if either struggle and Parra could probably be used in the pen next weekend as well if needed. Coming out of the break:

 

@SF--CC.......................CC

@SF--Sheets..................Suppan

@SF--Suppan................Parra

@Stl--Parra....................Sheets

@Stl--Bush/McClung......Bush/McClung

@Stl--CC.......................CC

@Stl--Sheets...................Suppan

HOU--Suppan.................Parra

HOU--Parra....................Sheets

HOU--Bush/McClung......Bush/McClung

CHC--CC........................CC

CHC--Sheets...................Suppan

CHC--Suppan.................Parra

CHC--Parra....................Sheets

@Atl--Bush/McClung.....Bush/McClung

@Atl--CC......................CC

@Atl--Sheets..................Suppan

 

Though for bullpen usage, it might be better to separate Benny and Sabathia, I have posted an alternative above. This would allow for our demoted starter (Bush or McClung) to be available to pitch in either Suppan's or Manny's games each week, depending on which starter lasted longer. Sort of a piggybacking type of situation, best case scenario Suppan pitches well enough so our 6th starter can come in for Parra in the 6th each time to reduce Manny's workload for a month or so.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[rpmeehan]

Agent39, thanks for taking the time to post here and fend off some of the unsubstantiated rumors. Amazing how speculation runs wild. I'm thrilled that Michael Brantley is staying with the Brewers organization. He just became my favorite Brewer prospect a few weeks ago, and I think he's going to be one heck of a player in the major leagues. I see a 2:1 walk-to-strikeout ratio, and that tells me this guy knows what he's doing up there at the plate. Add to that speed and defense, to go with a .324 average... Who cares about homeruns....this guy is going to be an impact player, and I'm looking forward to watching Brantley leading off for the Brewers for many years to come.

 

Thanks too, Agent39, for a great blog. I'll have to check back periodically over the summer. Good luck sorting the rest of this trade mess out, and get some sleep...

[brettac1]

On first glance this morning, this trade looks way better, especially if Green stays out of it.

[eishouse2]

How sure are we about the pieces of this trade? ESPN reported this morning that its LaPorta, Cain, Green, and a PTBNL...?

[BrewCrewForever]

1st MLB team since 1994 to have a cy young award winner as a starter and another as a reliever? Now if only we can get that former cy young award winner in the bullpen to excel.

I know it's only two appearances, but he looked pretty good to me since coming off the DL.

 

[PeaveyFury]

How sure are we about the pieces of this trade? ESPN reported this morning that its LaPorta, Cain, Green, and a PTBNL...?

 

ESPN has been wrong about the trade and most everything leading up to it all weekend. Why should that change now, I guess?

[bklynbrewcrew]

I have to admit that I am disappointed by this trade for several reasons. First of all I think we could have made the playoffs without Sabathia. I hate trading 6 plus years of a slugger like LaPorta for 3 months of anyone even a picther like CC. If someone like Green is the PTBNL I am even more disappointed since he very well could have been our second or third baseman in the future, two positions where we have little to no depth in the system. I am also not looking at the draft picks as consolation for losing CC since it is doubtful we will pick players nearly as good as LaPorta or Green. If we make the playoffs I can live with the trade but if we dont this trade is nothing short of a failure.

 

Here is my biggest problem with the organization as I see it now. We seem to really be putting all our eggs in this seasons basket. With all the unpredicability in baseball is it really wise to risk so many future years on one shot at the playoffs? The way everyone is talking it seems as if it is a far gone conclusion that Sheets is as good as gone after the season and CC is without a doubt as well. If that is the case it appears we will be taking a huge step backwards in future years since it will be ridiculously hard to replace Ben atop our rotation. In my opinion the smart thing to do would have been to trade for a lesser starter like Maddux or Wolf for depth without trading any elite guys and sign Sheets long term so we can have a good pitching staff going forward. After the season we could have traded Prince for some good young arms and had LaPorta as his replacement at first. Now we are in a position where our future chances to contend are considerably less and if we dont make the playoffs this year we might not compete for the playoffs for at least the next several years. There is a reason why prospects like LaPorta arent traded for rentals anymore and this is it. Melvin is acting out of pure desperation and that is why he got fleeced in this deal.

[sbrylski]

The way everyone is talking it seems as if it is a far gone conclusion that Sheets is as good as gone after the season and CC is without a doubt as well. If that is the case it appears we will be taking a huge step backwards in future years since it will be ridiculously hard to replace Ben atop our rotation.

 

I see a step back as likely, but its not like we'll be dead. We had 6 early picks this season, and will have 5 in the top 35 next season, and we already still have a strong mid-upper minors. Next year may be a little lost, especially if Fielder and/or Hardy are traded for pitching replacements, but we'll be back and quick. We'd be losing Sheets (most likely) next season anyway, so already its a semi-lost year in terms of you don't know what you're going to get.

 

I look at it as DM seeing the next two-three years as just ~85 win type seasons, and decided to pick this year and go with it instead of taking the very real chance this current team never reaches the playoffs. I'm fine with that.

[joshua502000]

What is the address for the big cub forum?

[Brian the Automator]

I have to admit that I am disappointed by this trade for several reasons. First of all I think we could have made the playoffs without Sabathia. I hate trading 6 plus years of a slugger like LaPorta for 3 months of anyone even a picther like CC. If someone like Green is the PTBNL I am even more disappointed since he very well could have been our second or third baseman in the future, two positions where we have little to no depth in the system. I am also not looking at the draft picks as consolation for losing CC since it is doubtful we will pick players nearly as good as LaPorta or Green. If we make the playoffs I can live with the trade but if we dont this trade is nothing short of a failure.

 

Here is my biggest problem with the organization as I see it now. We seem to really be putting all our eggs in this seasons basket. With all the unpredicability in baseball is it really wise to risk so many future years on one shot at the playoffs? The way everyone is talking it seems as if it is a far gone conclusion that Sheets is as good as gone after the season and CC is without a doubt as well. If that is the case it appears we will be taking a huge step backwards in future years since it will be ridiculously hard to replace Ben atop our rotation. In my opinion the smart thing to do would have been to trade for a lesser starter like Maddux or Wolf for depth without trading any elite guys and sign Sheets long term so we can have a good pitching staff going forward. After the season we could have traded Prince for some good young arms and had LaPorta as his replacement at first. Now we are in a position where our future chances to contend are considerably less and if we dont make the playoffs this year we might not compete for the playoffs for at least the next several years. There is a reason why prospects like LaPorta arent traded for rentals anymore and this is it. Melvin is acting out of pure desperation and that is why he got fleeced in this deal.

I have to be honest here. I feel that you have chosen negativity to define yourself as a Brewers fan, or at least as a member of this site. I'm not saying that you're not entitled to your opinion, but your reaction doesn't fall in line with some of the most staunchest critics here.

 

Back to your point, the farm system is incredibly deep right now, and while LaPorta had a lot of value, the well is far from dry.

[jason21nl]

maybe I look at this differently than some people. We have gone many many years without making the playoffs, and we have a great shot at it this year and if we get in, we have a great shot to go deep into the playoffs. So I say why the hell not go for it? I'll worry about the future later on.

[ninja33]

Here is my biggest problem with the organization as I see it now. We seem to really be putting all our eggs in this seasons basket. With all the unpredicability in baseball is it really wise to risk so many future years on one shot at the playoffs?

 

You're right, baseball is a very unpredictable sport.....but its much easier to predict in the present than in the future. Which is why when you have a shot to make the playoffs AND add a cy young winner to the playoff rotation you do it. You're right, the brewers could have made the playoffs without CC. But this trade wasnt made just to increase the odds of making the playoffs, it was made to dramatically increase the odds of WINNING in the playoffs. Besides, with baseball being so unpredictable, you seem far too sure that the brewers' prospects are all going to be great in the future and the team can contend easily for the next 5 years.

[mkm13]

Lets assume rluzinski is right that CC is worth only 2 games (IMO he is worth 3 or 4 when you factor in the bullpen savings). Lets also assume the brewers and cubs are playing exactly to their potential and will continue their winning % the rest of the way. That would result in the cubs final record being 97-65 and the brewers record being 90-72. Adding CC would put us at 92-70. Just for fun lets say we added 2 more pitchers at CC's level. That would put us at 96-66 based on CC only being worth 2 games. So based on rluzinski saying CC is worth only 2 games, we could have a rotation of Sheets, CC, CC, CC and Parra for the final 74 games and if everyone else played as they have been we wouldn't even win the division. I find that hard to believe.