CC Sabathia to the Brewers for Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson, and Michael Brantley

[mtrebs]

Joe Morgan just stated that he thinks this trade is not worth the risk with the Brewers losing LaPorta and not being able to sign Sabbathia. For what it's worth.

That's worth basically nothing. I don't pay attention to anything coming out of his mouth. I remember back when Davey Lopes was hired, Joe Morgan stated something like "it's nice to see a minority hired as a manager of a major league team, even though Milwaukee barely counts as a major league team". I know we were terrible back then, but come on man!

 

Just now, during the Red Sox/Yankees game, there was a game break discussing today's tennis match (I don't follow tennis so I don't even know who was playing) and then discussing the trade. The other announcer was talking about the big trade and then left it for Joe Morgan to respond and he decided to talk about the tennis match instead. I'd imagine if C.C. were traded to the Red Sox or Yankees Joe Morgan would be talking about it the entire game....boy I hate Joe Morgan.

[SeriesFinale]

I know what he meant, but the guy is always throwing out some stat or some ratio to prove some roundabout point ... it just gets annoying.

I for one appreciate when people use scientific methods to prove some roundabout point, but that's just me.

I think he was merely cautioning people from printing playoff tickets. I think the move is huge (and I suspect Russ does too), and puts the Crew in a fantastic position, but we should also keep an eye firmly on reality.

 

 

 

 

[biedergb]

The quick and dirty of the deal: we have Sheets and/or Sabathia pitching in 40% of the remaining games (as long as both are healthy)! That's HUGE! It cost us LaPorta, our # 1 pick from 2007 (who when drafted, it was said by Melvin that he could be used as a trade chip later, how Nostradamus-like). Think of it this way, we picked a stud pitcher in the '07 draft, who just got called up, and there's a big chance somethings happens and he can't pitch for us again next year. That's more than we got from JM Gold, Mike Jones and Mark Rogers.

 

If the other players are Green and Lucroy, or another top-20 prospect, it will hurt, but with the young position players we have now, and the handful of good prospects we will still have (Gamel and Escobar), we can afford to make this move.

[Sheets4theHOF]

He meant two more wins in replacement value, and that is indeed what the probability says. It's big regardless, in my opinion.

Starter for starter sure, but it doesn't factor in saving the bullpen. CC will certainly go deeper into games then McClung/Bush which will result in a rested bullpen and using the weaker pitchers in the pen less.

 

[kramnoj]

Sometimes owners will go over GM's heads and force something to get done (firing managers, signing A-Rod), but I don't think we've ever got and indication that this is the case with Melvin/Mark A.

IMO, this doesn't seem like Mark is going over Melvin's head. But I can see a scenario where Mark goes to Melvin and says something like "I know you wouldn't normally give up LaPorta for a rental, but I really think we can pull this off and I want you to make a deal that gives us the best chance to win the WS without crippling the team down the road."

 

This is all just my theory based on my observations, so I could be totally wrong.

[endaround]

Without sustained improvements its doubtful the Brewers can keep up this attendance pace They were well ahead of last year's pace and probably would have drawn 3M regardless. Just a stab in the dark. Doug and Mark A have done everything to build a winner.

It has nothing to do with this year's attendance but future years. A competitive team that wins little won't be able to keep the attendance up. See Cleveland.

 

[thablingster]

I think the probabilities mean as much as the psychological edge does for a team sometimes. When the team has Sheets on the mound you can tell often times they expect to win that game. He's the guy fans, media, and probably even some of the players look to if the team is slumping to pick them up.

 

Hopefully C.C. can have that same effect in a small sample since nothing is guaranteed after the end of this year. I think that is what Melvin, Mark A., and the rest of the Brewers collective are hoping. We face the NL Central a lot in the second half, and I think to a man if we had to choose three pitchers to throw out there, C.C. would be in that three over any guy we have other than Sheets.

[istanbultaye]

I know what he meant, but the guy is always throwing out some stat or some ratio to prove some roundabout point ... it just gets annoying. I don't care what stat you can find, when you replace your worst SP with CC Sabathia your team becomes a lot better. If it's not a big deal why doesn't every team fill a rotation with five Seth McClungs. I don't mean to mean to offend but anyone who thinks this isn't a colossal move for the Brewers has to take a step back.

First, other than playing the game itself and watching it live, stats have got to be the funnest thing about baseball there is. No other sport has as great a set of (rapidly expanding) statistics, that actually mean a little something.

 

A rotation of 5 McClungs versus 5 Sabathias would probably win 3 games per 10 and be a lot cheaper. So, for a team on the cheap (read brewers '04 and earlier), they do do that. I'd bet that Rluz thinks this is a pretty big move too. From what I've read about the stats, a 2-3 win boost over half a season is pretty impressive for one player. (I may be off on that though. I'm not an expert)

[dadofandrew]

The bullpen saving will not matter in September, they'll have plenty of pitchers. It only matters for the 44 games up to 8/25, when they have 2 days off the last week of August. I agree, 2 wins is a ton when you're tied for the wildcard lead.

[foamboy1]

Whoever drives 39 away gets a long time-out. I'm not kidding.

[Minigoon]

He's the agent for a few Brewers farmhands.

Pena,Ryan,Brantley,Cain,Ford,Green,Chapman,Brewer,Dennis,Robulak,Tyson,Bueno just a few :P

A few more and you'll be able to field your own team. Keep up the good work and as always, thanks for keeping us up to date with the info!

[yoyo49]

Four teams chasing deal for Sabathia

Posted: Sunday July 06, 2008 09:00AM ET

 

The Yanks would love to acquire a starter before the July 31 trade deadline and C.C. Sabathia is the biggest name in the market. Nevertheless, the Yanks want the price to fall precipitously, which is unlikely. The Cubs and Phillies also were described as more motivated to land Sabathia than the Yanks. And foxsports.com reports the Dodgers are heavily involved in the sweepstakes as well.

 

New York Post

 

 

I never read the New York Post and certainly never will after this and the early, erroneous reporting of the All-Star starters.

[Madtown Bomber]

Can it get any more official? haha My sister works at flight control for Cleveland Hopkins Airport and says there is a 3 interesting names on a flight list early tomorrow morning. A Carsten Sabathia, a Amber Sabathia, and a Carsten Sabathia III all scheduled to be on a flight arriving in Milwaukee tomorrow morning. I can't believe they are making CC fly commercial, get the big man a private jet ride. haha

[BrewPackBuck]

agent39: That is awesome news that Green is at home and hasnt been contacted yet. I truly hope he isnt the one of the other prospects thats involved since he is one of my favorites in the minors and that he could fill a void since I dont see Gamel at 3rd in the majors.

[Terok Balefire]

New rumor is that it is Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson which would be awesome.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I for one appreciate when people use scientific methods to prove some roundabout point, but that's just me.

I think he was merely cautioning people from printing playoff tickets. I think the move is huge (and I suspect Russ does too), and puts the Crew in a fantastic position, but we should also keep an eye firmly on reality.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I just think it's silly to use a "scientific method" to proejct how many wins a guy is worth in replacement value over half a season. His performance is completely unpredictable, and you will never be able to prove how many wins he was worth. I just get tired of his science. This is the same person who said it was basically impossible (and used some other formula to "prove" it) for the Brewers to catch the Cubs when they were 9 games back or so in early June. I said it was way too early, and it was. Some things are unpredictable and crazy things happen all the time in sports. I don't trust probability and ratio and that nonsense for a second.

 

[mtrebs]

Hopefully they don't have a game during your wedding reception. Everybody will be at the bar watching the game.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

This is the exact reason why I got married in May...even though it wouldn't have mattered in 2006 when I got married, but I didn't want to take the chance.

[agent39]

Laporta, prospect ptbnl. Thats all im saying.

[chinabob99]

I can't believe they are making CC fly commercial, get the big man a private jet ride. haha

Yeah, where is Mark A with his big boy jet? C'mon!

[mskuts]

What a great day to be a Brewer fan and that's saying something! This does remind me a lot of the Reggie White signing. I know it's not the same but the Packers sucked for many years before signing White just like the Brewers have struggled for so many years. Now if we can just acquire a great leadoff hitter (I'm looking at you Brian Roberts), we have a legit shot! And I'm still holding out hope we can sign Sabathia to an extension. I know, I know it's probably wishful thinking but so was this dream-like day we're having today!

[SeriesFinale]

New rumor is that it is Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson which would be awesome.

This should be in blue, right? I know you're joking but it's been a crazy couple days, my eyes almost bulged out of my head.

 

[fondybrewfan]

It has nothing to do with this year's attendance but future years. A competitive team that wins little won't be able to keep the attendance up. See Cleveland.

 

Didn't Cleveland have something like 10 consecutive years of sellouts on the 90's? While I would expect the Brewers to do that I could easily see the average attendance near 40K a game.

Plus the success of the Brewers would likely lead to other revenue producing deal (sponsorships, advertising, ticket prices, etc)

 

[naivin]

Again, all I'm trying to say is that the total expected impact on this trade for the regular season is around 2 wins. I'm not trying to argue that 2 wins isn't worth it.

Dude, step away from the abacus for 5 minutes and try to actually enjoy the baseball season. Two statistical wins may or may not be a big deal. But, beyond that, stats cannot account for the emotional impact this could have on the team, nor the (negative) emotional impact it could have on the competition (You think Jim Hendry is feeling any additinal pressure right now? I do.) Mark Attanasio and Doug Mevin made their objectives clear to the world today...their goal is not to make the playoffs, their goal is to win the World Series. If they wanted to simply make the playoffs, they could have just gone out and gotten Randy Wolf or Greg Maddux (which I still might recommend BTW). They didn't do that. They went and got the guy everybody wanted. As I have been saying for a while now - this move was more about winning in the playoffs than it was about making the playoffs.

 

Statistics comparing one guy to his replacement suggest 2 additional wins. As you point out, that in and of itself may be significant. I personally would argue that the impact will reach well beyond that (barring injuries as always).

[fondybrewfan]

New rumor is that it is Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson which would be awesome.

If this were true this trade would be a steal of the century. I am pretty sure our 2 comp picks could blow Jackson and Bryson out of the water

[SeriesFinale]

Wow....OK, that's left-field.