July 31 Deadline Thread

[battlekow]

I don't think Salome is in the Giants deal.

[dadofandrew]

Yep, Cain would be my choice as well, thye have plenty of OF's.

[paul253]

I'd hate to lose Brantley. He's an ideal leadoff hitter, something we havent had in years. His strikeout rate is out of this world. I would pick Cain as well if those are the four choices.

[Mass Haas]

A look at the Giants new prospects

 

By Kevin T. Czerwinski / MLB.com

Taking a page from their cross-bay rivals, the Giants made a deal Sunday, sending Ray Durham to the Brewers for two prospects.

Here's a closer look at the players the Giants received:

Steve Hammond, LHP: The southpaw is a 2005 sixth-round selection out of Long Beach State and, for a while, appeared to be on the fast track to Milwaukee. But his development seems to have slowed over the last 18 months, particularly in the six weeks since he was promoted to Triple-A Nashville.

Hammond is 0-4 with a 7.41 ERA in four starts since getting bumped up to the Pacific Coast League, despite allowing only one run over six innings in his initial start with the Sounds. He's pitched only 11 innings in his last three starts, not lasting more than four in any of the outings. He's allowed 13 earned runs and five homers. While the 26-year-old has struck out 16 over that stretch, he's also allowed 17 hits and walked five.

Hammond began the season at Double-A Huntsville, his third year in the Southern League. He was 7-4 with a 3.45 ERA with the Stars but was somewhat inconsistent. He pitched two brilliant games at the beginning of June, allowing no earned runs over 13 1/3 innings against West Tennessee and Jacksonville but followed that with a 5 2/3-inning outing (his shortest in more than two months) while suffering the loss in his final start with Huntsville.

Overall, he was 19-19 with a 4.06 ERA in 57 Southern League starts dating back to 2006, the season that many considered a breakout year for Hammond. He began that campaign in the Florida State League but was bumped up to Huntsville after going 6-5 with a 2.53 ERA in 14 starts with Brevard County.

His command and repertoire seemed to suffer last year after he spent the winter adding on to his 6-foot-2 frame. He worked out religiously in the winter prior to the 2007 season and the bulk seemed to have sapped him of his flexibility.

Hammond, who also was largely ineffective in seven Arizona Fall League appearances last season, needs to demonstrate that he can compete at a higher level like the PCL. Otherwise, there will continue to be speculation that he might be better suited as a reliever.

Darren Ford, OF: The former 18th-rounder (2004) from Chipola Junior College has had a career that in many ways mirrors that of Hammond. He was hot early and grabbed the attention of the Brewers brass after hitting .335 in half a season at West Virginia of the South Atlantic League last spring. What some didn't consider was that it was his second season in the Sally League -- he hit .283 over a full season there in 2006.

Still, he was promoted to the Florida State League last June and has hit .231 in 616 at-bats since. What he lacks in ability to get on base (his OBP is .322 this season and was .317 in the FSL last year) he makes up for once he's on base. Ford has remarkable speed. He's second in all of Minor League Baseball with 48 steals (caught 11 times) and has 202 in what amounts to four seasons of pro ball.

Ford has fanned 88 times this season, however, and has 414 strikeouts in 1,567 at-bats (once every 3.7 ABs). He won't turn 23 until October, but at this point still seems as if he's more project than projectable. If he can figure out how to bunt a little more and keep the ball on the ground, he might have more of a future. Otherwise, he runs the risk of becoming Esix Snead.

Darren Ford is second in Minor League Baseball with 48 stolen bases in 59 attempts. (Jerry Hale/MLB.com)

 

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2008/07/20/IsXhnUCM.jpg

[Mass Haas]

Link while active, text follows:

 

Manatee gets traded to Giants

Darren Ford dealt for Durham

BY JIM CAWLEY

FLORIDA TODAY

 

Now you see him, now you don't.

 

Brevard County Manatees fans have grown accustomed to center fielder Darren Ford's short stay on first base. His 48 steals are first in the Florida State League -- and no one else is even close.

 

However, Ford's speed will no longer be on display at Space Coast Stadium. The 22-year-old was traded on Sunday, along with former Manatee and current Nashville Sounds (Triple-A) pitcher Steve Hammond, to the San Francisco Giants organization for major-league second baseman Ray Durham.

 

"I really thought (Ford) got better as the season went on," Manatees general manager Kyle Smith said. "He seems like he's more aggressive at the plate, and just his sheer speed is a huge asset. We win when he's on base a couple times a game -- that's just a proven fact.

 

"We're going to miss him here."

 

The 36-year-old Durham will report to the Milwaukee Brewers, where he is expected to compete with second baseman Rickie Weeks for playing time. He is batting .293 with three home runs and 32 RBIs this season, his 14th in the major leagues.

 

An All-Star with the Manatees this season, Ford batted just .230, but led the team in walks with 46. In a game at Clearwater on May 5, he tied a FSL league record with five steals in a game.

 

Ford was a South Atlantic League All-Star with the West Virginia Power a season ago. He was listed by Baseball America as the best defensive outfielder and fastest baserunner amongst Brewers prospects.

 

A lefthander, Hammond was 0-4 with a 7.41 ERA in four stars for Nashville this season. In 15 starts with the Double-A Hunstville Stars, he was 7-4 with a 3.45 ERA.

 

Hammond pitched for Brevard County in parts of 2005 and 2006. He was a combined 7-8 with a 2.68 ERA.

[Mass Haas]

Link while active, text follows:

 

Trade sends Vineland grad across country

By MICHAEL McGARRY, Atlantic City Press Staff Writer

 

Darren Ford moved across the country Monday.

 

The Vineland High School graduate and Milwaukee Brewers minor league prospect had one day's notice.

 

The Brewers traded Ford and triple-A pitcher Steve Hammond to the San Francisco Giants for major league second baseman Ray Durham on Sunday night.

 

Ford played for the Brevard County Manatees in the high Class-A Florida State League. He spent Monday afternoon packing his bags in his Melbourne, Fla., apartment. He had a 4 p.m. flight to California. Ford will join the San Jose Giants, San Francisco's high Class A affiliate in the California League.

 

"It's a new beginning," Ford said.

 

Ford, 22, is noted for his speed. He has 48 stolen bases this season - second best in all of minor league baseball. Baseball America rated him as the fastest base runner and best defensive outfielder in the Brewers' system. He was a South Atlantic League All Star season.

 

But Ford has struggled at the plate, batting .230 with 88 strikeouts this season.

 

Ford's name first surfaced in trade talks in stories on several Internet sites Saturday.

 

Ford didn't think anything of it when he was first pulled from the lineup just before the Manatee's Saturday game.

 

"I thought they were just giving me a day off," he said.

 

But other players told him there was talk of a pending trade.

 

"I asked if my name was in it," Ford said, "and they said, 'Yes.' "

 

After the game, Manatee manager Mike Guerrero announced in front of the team that Ford had been traded.

 

Ford then said an emotional goodbye to his teammates.

 

"It was hard," he said. "It got emotional. There were some tears. Teammates are like brothers. Now I'm going to meet a whole new bunch of guys. I'll see some of these guys down the road."

 

Even though it's a big change, Ford is taking a positive approach to the move.

 

"They (the Giants) like something about me," Ford said. "God has something in store for me. All I can do is play hard, play my role and be humble."

 

The Brewers drafted Ford in the 18th round of the 2004 draft.

 

The 5-foot-9, 170-pounder was a three-sport star at Vineland High School. As a senior in 2003-04, he helped the Fighting Clan football team land a berth in the state playoffs by scoring 14 touchdowns - including two via kickoff returns - and rushing for 827 yards on 106 carries. The indoor track season saw him win state Group IV and Meet of Champions titles in the 55-yard dash. A .326 batting average and 39 stolen bases in 40 attempts followed in baseball

 

Back then sports was a game. Now it's Ford's profession. Nothing illustrates that point better than living and working in Florida one day and relocating to California the next.

 

"It's a business," Ford said.

[Mass Haas]

Baseball America explains how Darren Ford had already netted the Brewers value in Mat Gamel

[battlekow]

The Prospect Corner asks, "Does Gamel miss LaPorta?"

[Mass Haas]

The Prospect Corner asks, "Does Gamel miss LaPorta?"

 

Considering Angel Salome has a 1.062 OPS in July hitting cleanup behind Gamel most nights, Mat is still plenty protected. Mat's numbers simply needed to level off a bit at some point.

[jjfanec]

I wonder if the Indians are less likely to pick Lucroy now that they trading Casey Blake for a couple prospects one of whom is a solid catching prospect at high-A ball. trade

High-A catcher Carlos Santana is hitting .323, with 14 home runs, and 96 RBI's. It could mean nothing but it would make me think it is now between Cain, Brantley, and Green.

[battlekow]

I wonder if the Indians are less likely to pick Lucroy now that they trading Casey Blake for a couple prospects one of whom is a solid catching prospect at high-A ball. trade

High-A catcher Carlos Santana is hitting .323, with 14 home runs, and 96 RBI's. It could mean nothing but it would make me think it is now between Cain, Brantley, and Green.

FWIW, I've heard from a couple people that the fourth player is Cole Gillespie, not Cain.

 

[Mass Haas]

And yet I've heard from others with connections to the Brewers organization that it is still just two names on the list, not four, despite the Cleveland Plain Dealer report.

 

And so we wait...

[battlekow]

I certainly hope that's true, Mass. Lucroy is the prospect I'd least like to see traded away, of the five names most rumored to be on the list.

[Postseason2006]

That makes me feel ALOT better. A guy that can gun down runners and hit are RARE.

[jjfanec]

That is the first I have heard about Cole Gillespie being one of the guys. I must not have been reading closely. I love what he can do but if we lock up Braun and Hart (and Hart can't handle CF) than I am OK with him going. I really want to keep Green and Lucroy.

[mothershipconnection]

I'd really like to see the top players on those lists make some outlandish statements about having their hearts set on "finding themselves" during a 3-year hike in Tibet or wanting to retire from baseball to work on a bison ranch. They need to scare Cleveland off. I'll be able to live with giving up one future star for a half season of CC, but if it turns out that we gave up more than one good MLB career going to Cleveland I'll be really peeved unless we win the world series this year.

[obobo55]

I'd really like to see the top players on those lists make some outlandish statements about having their hearts set on "finding themselves" during a 3-year hike in Tibet or wanting to retire from baseball to work on a bison ranch. They need to scare Cleveland off. I'll be able to live with giving up one future star for a half season of CC, but if it turns out that we gave up more than one good MLB career going to Cleveland I'll be really peeved unless we win the world series this year.

I just don't get this mentality. I know these guys have advanced to a level where they have proven themselves to some extent, but we will be receiving two HIGH draft picks when CC leaves in FA next year. Those picks are both going to be higher than where the prospects we are talking about were drafted. Brantley was a 7th rounder, Cain 17th, Green 25th, Lucroy 3rd. I like each of these guys and I don't want to part with any of them either, but the picks we get for CC's departure will likely be of higher talent level. They still need to move up the ladder but I would expect at least one of the two to match whichever player Cleveland picks.

The way I look at it, we gave up LaPorta for CC. Trading away a very likely star player is costly, but what Sabathia is doing for us already is probably worth it. LaPorta is probably a 1B and hits righthanded. We need our 1B to be a LH guy to balance out our lineup as Braun, Hart, Hardy, and Weeks all hit from the right side. Since you are unlikely to get power from CF or C, either your 3B or !B needs to be a power lefty stick which LaPorta cannot provide. He may be great, but I am willing to let him go since he really didn't fit on our team. 4 straight wins, the effect he has had on lowering stress on our 'pen, and the potential to dominate in postseason makes that gamble a worthy one.

 

The picks we will get ought to be able to replace Bryson and whichever PTBNL they choose. If Zach ever turns out to be a competent ML starter, it may have been a poor trade, but I don't hear anyone claiming that as a reason. If Brantley goes to Cleveland and becomes a HOFer and both of our picks never pan out sure it would suck, but given Jack Z's track record, I would bet against that happening.

[dadofandrew]

Zach didn't have many options left anyway. He may well turn out, but his ceiling has fallen to the point of it not being a big deal.

[twobrewers]

Those picks are both going to be higher than where the prospects we are talking about were drafted. Brantley was a 7th rounder, Cain 17th, Green 25th, Lucroy 3rd.

And Brent Brewers was a 2nd round pick.

Mark Rogers was a 1st round pick.

Tony Gwynn Jr. was a 2nd round pick.

Josh Murray was a 2nd round pick.

Mike Jones was a 1st round pick.

 

It is unfair to diminish the potential of Brantley, Lucroy, Green and Cain based on where they were drafted. The important thing is that they have already played very well in higher levels of the minor leagues.

 

Draft picks are great. (Especially with Jack Z) But they are also a crap shoot.

[mothershipconnection]

I just don't get this mentality. I know these guys have advanced to a level where they have proven themselves to some extent, but we will be receiving two HIGH draft picks when CC leaves in FA next year

 

I guess I'm very much the one in the hand is worth two in the bush type. There's a very real chance both of the players drafted are big flops or just marginal players.

[TheCrew07]

I agree with mothership on this. While there's no garuntee that prospects will turn into anything at MLB, I like the idea of established prospects over draft picks. Especially ones that hit left handed (Green and to a lesser extent Brantley) and fill a position of need within the organization. I fully expected prospects to get dealt for pitching, but I was rooting against rental players, I've stated many times that when I'm trading I want maximum value... which in my mind means multiple years.

 

When trading for MLB caliber players I'd rather move expendable MLB pieces (for example the theory Hall and Hardy for pitching to be replaced by Gamel and Escobar, yes I know Gamel isn't MLB ready yet, I'm talking theory here) , when trading for prospects I'd rather move prospects that are blocked first. I realize that's not always going to be possible, so I'm okay with Sabathia, even though I don't want to move Green or Lucroy as well Laporta... basically we're giving them one side of their infield, both corner spots in the infield, or a C and 1B for a better shot at the playoffs. If the PTBNL is Brantely or Gillespie that changes my whole outlook on this deal, but to give up the kind of depth we did for a rental is tough for me to swallow personally. I have no complaints with what Sabathia has done, who could have anything negative to say about 3 complete games in 4 starts... I just would have preferred a younger multi year guy.

 

X and I had a similar conversation earlier in the year, to me trading away prospects for picks just keeps pushing your talent farther away from MLB, and sooner or later the Brewers are going to miss on a pick, maybe one of or both of Frederickson or Dykstra are already a "miss", we don't know. For me it's not so much even how the guys we trade away do with their new team, though I think that factors into the equation, but what else we could have gotten for those same players. I would have much rather had Inman, Garrison, and Thatcher available as pieces of the puzzle for this season.

 

I guess my bottom line is simply that I hate giving up depth for rentals, unless a major hole created by an injury needs to be plugged mid season.

[Never Outhustled]

While I might have preffered a player we could control versus a rental, no other pitched available offered close to the dominant ability of Sebathia. I also don't think you can look at the deal as LaPorta for Sebathia and Bryson and PTBNL for 2 comp picks. If the comp picks had been eliminated, you still wouldn't be able to get Sebathia for LaPorta.

 

I think the Linebrink deal was different than this one, because the Brewers were able to find a team that overvalued Inman and Garrison because SD is totally statistacally based now. The Brewers cashed in a couple of low ceiling prospects for guys with much higher ceiling. The Indians demanded quality prospects, and got them. The Brewers could make the deal because they still have a number of impact guys in the system, and the comp picks will send more on the way.

 

 

And Brent Brewers was a 2nd round pick.

Mark Rogers was a 1st round pick.

Tony Gwynn Jr. was a 2nd round pick.

Josh Murray was a 2nd round pick.

Mike Jones was a 1st round pick.

Brent Brewer is still a high quality prospect. Production is just a small part of prospectum. He's 20 in A+. Gwynn would start in CF in a few organizations. He has trade value. Its unfair to compare pitching prospects to position prospects. The rate of pitching busts is much higher for every team. Thats why you trade prospects for pitchers like Sebathia. Your also assuming that this PTBNL is a sure thing to make it, thats a bit of a leap for a guy in A+. Murray is the last position player bust Jack Z has made, and that was in 2001. His scouting staff is light years ahead of where it was back then.

[obobo55]

Those picks are both going to be higher than where the prospects we are talking about were drafted. Brantley was a 7th rounder, Cain 17th, Green 25th, Lucroy 3rd.

And Brent Brewers was a 2nd round pick.

Mark Rogers was a 1st round pick.

Tony Gwynn Jr. was a 2nd round pick.

Josh Murray was a 2nd round pick.

Mike Jones was a 1st round pick.

2nd round picks come after the supplemental round. So I'll give you Rogers and Jones, but the others were all picked lower than the two we will receive this year for CC.

Again, I understand that these guys have proven something beyond what any pick we make will have done. But most of them still haven't shown they can handle even AA yet. While they may be less risky than a draft choice, there is nothing to say they may not make a dent in the Majors either.

 

I hope Cleveland takes one of the OFs too and even losing them will hurt a bit, but getting CC is worth it and if we hit on one of the 2 picks we could easily end up with a better player than what we lost. If Jack lucks out, we could have 2.

 

Crew07, I hear your point as well, and I would love to get a young pitcher we could control as well. I think you undervalue what teams think about these players however. You can probably swing a deal for a thrower in A-ball, but once they show ability that translates to the MLB, teams know they can hold out for the world in trade if they choose to deal him. Most clubs will instead deal off a more expensive pitcher from their staff and keep the savings for themselves. I am very wary of any young pitcher that gets dealt for exactly this reason. If he is getting dealt he probably has some major flaws or has a goofy delivery that may blow out his arm.

[twobrewers]

2nd round picks come after the supplemental round. So I'll give you Rogers and Jones, but the others were all picked lower than the two we will receive this year for CC.

Well, if a team in the top 15 of the draft were to sign CC - we get there second round pick instead of the first round pick. So the second round draft choices are very relevant. (We didn't get a 1st for Cordero or Linebrink)

 

Brent Brewer is still a high quality prospect. Production is just a small part of prospectum. He's 20 in A+. Gwynn would start in CF in a few organizations. He has trade value.

Brewer is only in A+ because the Brewers were getting frustrated with his lack of production in low-A, they just wanted to try and jump start his production. He may be a prospect - but he certainly is not a "high quality prospect". Brewer has done nothing in the minor leagues to justify his draft rankings.

 

If Gwynn had any kind of trade value - he would have been traded by now.

[Never Outhustled]

If Gwynn had any kind of trade value - he would have been traded by now.

So does that mean Gamel and Escobar have no value, because they haven't been traded yet? Its very up in the air if the Brewers will pick up Mike Cameron's $10 million option for next year, leaving Gwynn as the Brewers only in house canidate for CF next year. Forget Hart in CF, he still hasn't mastered RF yet, and wasn't tollerable statistically in CF in the past. That might have something to do with why Gwynn's still here. We have had numerous reports over the last year of teams interested in Gwynn, but the Brewers seem to be in love with him. I don't agree with there infatuation, but its undeniable.

 

Brewer is only in A+ because the Brewers were getting frustrated with his lack of production in low-A, they just wanted to try and jump start his production.

Teams do this all the time, because it works. Brewer has an OPS over 700 in July, and is a terrific basestealer. He's earning his keep there. I would think he could put up some big numbers in A+ in a couple years when he gets to be the age of the prospects we're worrying about losing to the Indians. The Yankees did the same with Austin Jackson a year ago, is he a non-prospect too?