Where do you rank JJ Hardy among MLB Shortstops?/Hardy named NL Player of the Week (reply #91)

[brewizard]

Hardy has a 2.115 OPS for July!

[zzzmanwitz]

Hardy has a 2.115 OPS for July!

For all of July!!! That's not a small sample at all. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Brew Guzzler]

FSN just showed a graphic comparing NL shortstops. JJ is right there with most of them in avg, hrs, and rbi's. He was only about 10 points behind Reyes in avg and even with him in other categories. I'm ready to declare Hardy the best non-hispanic shortstop.

[T B0NE 10]

Whats JJ's contract situation.

 

Id be willing to sign him to a long term bargain deal. Hardy's proven himself. Im happy with him at SS

[kramnoj]

Whats JJ's contract situation.

 

Id be willing to sign him to a long term bargain deal. Hardy's proven himself. Im happy with him at SS

 

Hardy has two years of arbitration left.

 

IMO, Hardy is not a guy to sign. He has shown above average offense at short, but he is not above average defensively. He is not a star, and I don't expect him to be a star. Contract extensions are best reserved for stars, as opposed to just average or above average players. Add that Escobar could step in next year and be a valuable player for the minimun, I don't think an extension makes sense for JJ.

 

If Hall doesn't regain his form, I think it would be interesting to see Escobar at SS and Hardy at 3B next year (or vice versa).

[TooLiveBrew]

Once again we're told that Escobar will be MLB-ready on Opening Day 2009. Is that really likely?

[kramnoj]

Once again we're told that Escobar will be MLB-ready on Opening Day 2009. Is that really likely?

 

I think he's MLB ready now. I guess it depends on what you expect. I certainly think the Crew would be better off with Escobar as an everyday player right now over Hall, which was my point.

[PrimeTime955]

Once again we're told that Escobar will be MLB-ready on Opening Day 2009. Is that really likely?

Depends on your definition of MLB ready. Could he come up and play an adequate short stop and hit .250, yeah probably. But honesty I think a full season in AA this year, a full season in AAA next season wouldn't hurt him especially since we have JJ under contract for 2 more seasons. In my opinion it's a no brainer that you do not extend JJ Hardy and just let Escobar transition into that position in the next 2 seasons.

 

[MickeyDavis]

Gamel at third, Escobar at short, Hardy at second, LaPorta at first. Goodbye Fielder, Weeks, Hall.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think he's MLB ready now. I guess it depends on what you expect. I certainly think the Crew would be better off with Escobar as an everyday player right now over Hall, which was my point.

 

I don't want to see Escobar waste a year of MLB service time when he can only manage (to use PrimeTime's BA example) a .250/.300/.350 line. His defense has been MLB ready for a while now from what I've seen/read, but that bat has a ways to go still (imo).

 

 

In my opinion it's a no brainer that you do not extend JJ Hardy and just let Escobar transition into that position in the next 2 seasons.

 

Agreed with this. Hopefully Esco's bat will continue to show improvement. He's having a great 2008 season.

[BrewCrewForever]

JJ is for sure in tier #3. But could move up to #2 at some point. I have always been hard on Hardy, but dude is just on fire right now and it's very nice to see.

[BrewCrewForever]

Gamel at third, Escobar at short, Hardy at second, LaPorta at first. Goodbye Fielder, Weeks, Hall.

That has me very excited. Add Salome, Braun, Hart and (insert name here) to that lineup and that is something special.

 

[kramnoj]

Escobar's MLE according to a new tool from the creator of ZiPS based on the season so far is .304/.325/.396. That would give him the 20th highest OPS among qualified SS this year. He is ML ready now based on what the quality of major leagues SS currently are.

 

I don't want to see Escobar waste a year of MLB service time when he can only manage (to use PrimeTime's BA example) a .250/.300/.350 line.

 

That's not what you originally said. You questioned whether he would be ML ready in Opening Day 2009.

 

Anyway, this thread isn't about Escobar. I only bring him up because I think it would be a mistake to tie up resources in Hardy long-term.

[Brew Guzzler]

Escobar should be our SS of the future. I believe that he should be able to play next season and hit well according to the things I've read. He obviously won't be pulling a rookie season like Braun's, but I think he can be productive. JJ at 2nd is something Tom Haudicort was talking about in a recent podcast. I think it could work out really well if JJ shows he can continue to produce in the second half of the season. If he can be consistent he is a decent #2 hitter. I think it might be worth a try if there isn't a free agent they really like available.

[TooLiveBrew]

You questioned whether he would be ML ready in Opening Day 2009.

 

If his offense isn't ready, imho he isn't MLB-ready. Being in the bottom third of MLB isn't 'ready' -- just my tastes. If it were only based on D, he's probably MLB ready at least at OD 2008.

[PrimeTime955]

Why bring Escobar up a year early so he can be below average in the majors when you have a more then capable short stop already under contract? DON'T RUSH PROSPECTS. It doesn't do anything but hurt them in the end. Escobar has time, the Brewers have time, it makes no sense to me barring a JJ Hardy trade.

[silversurferr]

Hardy may have average range, but he has soft hands, a great arm, and does not kick easy chances. Reyes, in contrast, supposedly has great range, but kicks routine grounders. I'd rather have Hardy in the field with the game on the line.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Hardy might just be hitting his way into a tier 2 Shortstop. This all depends on him not going on one of his usual slumps. Exciting stuff.

[kramnoj]

Why bring Escobar up a year early so he can be below average in the majors when you have a more then capable short stop already under contract? DON'T RUSH PROSPECTS. It doesn't do anything but hurt them in the end. Escobar has time, the Brewers have time, it makes no sense to me barring a JJ Hardy trade.

 

I don't think anybody here is saying to bring up Escobar instead of Hardy right now. The main question is that it doesn't make sense to extend Hardy when we have a replacement who is capable of replacing him right now and Hardy isn't really a special player. Hardy is somewhere around average for a SS. He may be above average to good, we can see where he ranks after the season.

 

Being in the bottom third of MLB isn't 'ready' -- just my tastes.

 

Your taste would have prevented Yount from being in the majors when he was 20 years old. It doesn't make sense to look at offense and defense as separate components. It makes sense to look at the total expected contribution of the player, how much that player will be compensated for that, and how that all fits into building a roster with current talent, budget and available free agents and/or trades. It certainly wouldn't be horrible for Escobar to gain more seasoning in the minors next year. But if another team would trade an ace with Hardy as part of the package, I would certainly feel comfortable making that trade and having Escobar be the everyday SS.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Hardy and Prince are sure going to have some nice trade value in the offseason. Since our pitching needs a lot of help, they are going to be the chips we need to rebuild our rotation. Good stuff.

[1992casey]

The problem, of course, with using Yount's situation as a comparison is that there was no free agency and no arbitration at the time. The Brewers could simply decide that he was the best available option, that he could develop at the Major League level, and leave it at that.

[brewizard]

Hardy and Prince are sure going to have some nice trade value in the offseason.

 

Trading Hardy would be a disaster. There is no player proven to be able to come in and replace what Hardy brings at the Major League level.

 

For the season:

 

Hardy 270AB OPS .813

Fielder 319AB OPS .818

Hart 324AB OPS .852

Braun 340AB OPS .849

 

Hall 241AB OPS .668

Weeks 269AB OPS .688

Cameron 189AB OPS .787

 

And Hardy plays great D with an absolute gun of an arm. I think the Brewers should sign him not trade him!

[recte44]

If it wasn't for Branyan, I wouldn't be surprised to see Escobar in the 2nd half with Hardy at 3B. He's lost a step running and in the field, but has the OBP and SLG to be an average to slightly above average 3B.

 

Who wouldn't be happy with a .290/.350/.480 line at 3B for us right now, honestly? He certainly has the arm for the position.

[kramnoj]

The problem, of course, with using Yount's situation as a comparison is that there was no free agency and no arbitration at the time. The Brewers could simply decide that he was the best available option, that he could develop at the Major League level, and leave it at that.

 

You have a valid point if the discussion was only about getting the most value out of a player compared to their expected peak while they are cost controlled. But that isn't where that conversation began. The conversation started with questioning whether Escobar is MLB ready and then the assertion that a player who is in the major leagues but in the bottom third of starters offensively isn't MLB ready. I think that is far too simplistic. Even if Escobar's peak was to only be in the bottom third of SS, his defense would make him a valuable player.

 

And Hardy plays great D with an absolute gun of an arm.

 

Hardy has a great arm, but he doesn't play great D, compared to other SS. He is probably below average. Not horrible, but not good either.

[jjfanec]

It always surprises me when people say Hardy is a below average fielder because when I watch games he always make the routine plays and makes some really nice plays as well. I know that stats back up that he is average or below but when I watch the game he looks good. It must be hard for me to judge range