Trading with Baltimore

[crewcrazy]

Wieters is a flat-out stud and may be Major-League ready soon -- I don't think they'd have much interest in Salome. Roberts is Peter Angelos' favorite player and turned down the same offer the Cubs ended up giving the A's for Rich Harden. The Brewers are going to have to drastically overpay to pry Roberts from Angelos' grip. Weeks, Jeffress, and Gamel might do it. If that's the price, no thanks...I'd rather get Ray Durham and his .380 OBP to split some time with Weeks this year for a much cheaper price.

[PeaveyFury]

Um, the Orioles have this guy named Wieters that seems like he could be ok at C, so they would have little to no interest in Salome.

 

Considering that Salome is fairly unlikely to stay at catcher, I don't think that matters much.

[Chio151]

Um, the Orioles have this guy named Wieters that seems like he could be ok at C, so they would have little to no interest in Salome.

 

Considering that Salome is fairly unlikely to stay at catcher, I don't think that matters much.

 

Really?

 

I was under the impression that he only really provided value as a catcher. Otherwise, he would just be an average prospect.

[splitterpfj]

Matt Wieters is a Top 20 prospect (overall), he's not just a guy who can fill the catcher position.

 

I really don't think Salome would enter into a discussion with Baltimore, they are all over acquiring a shortstop at this point.

 

Honestly, I'd expect Roberts to stay right where he is for the moment, with Baltimore perhaps trying to do a new deal with him in the off-season. If he is dealt, it won't be cheap, I think Weeks, Escobar and a young pitcher for Roberts and a veteran reliever would be in the ballpark.

[Big Jay of the North]

Roberts would be the impact position player with a high OBP this team needs. I would send Weeks, Salome, Anundsen, and even Braddock (maybe I'm crazy) if necessary for Roberts and Bradford/ Jim Johnson. I know its a lot but I think that could put us over the top and the team would have Roberts and the BP arm under contract for next year as well. This trade could solve two major problems: One being our lack of production both offensively and defensively from 2B and second a RP who can be counted on to get MLB hitters out. What do you guys think? Too much? Not enough?

[BrewCrewForever]

If the O's would only give up Roberts for Gamel or Escobar I'm not for it at all.

[pete]

Adam McCalvey related talking to Melvin after the CC trade on a radio show. He asked about Roberts and Melvin's response was "he's not available." I assume that means the price is really high. He's a favorite of both the owner and the fanbase.

 

The idea of trading Escobar for him is crazy. He's controlled for six years and the clock hasn't started. Three of those are cheap. Roberts is one more year at something like 8 million a year.

[shelmark]

I'm very curious where Angel Salome is going to play if not catcher. He is 5'7" short. Where is he moving to???

[PeaveyFury]

Angel's defensive options are really stick at catcher or play DH for an AL team. As long as he's with the Brewers, he'll probably catch, but it's fairly likely LuCroy passes him in the system next year, and Lawrie won't be too far behind.

[southpaw121505]

Which is why I'm opening up to trading him, soon, as in this season. If he can't stick behind the plate his value goes way down and having Lucroy makes it easier for me to decide to move Salome. It's crazy, before this season even I wouldn't think we'd be in a position anytime soon to be trading away a legit catching prospect.

[ILuvDaBush]

I still say let him stick it out at catcher and let the chips fall as they may. If and when he figures out his footwork, his bat will be equivocal to Geovany Soto...hopefully more. And the fact that he is the starting catcher for the AA AS Game speaks volumes, as does the inclusion of a few other Huntsville pitchers whose names escape me because...well do you think most baseball fanatics outside of Brewerfan.net have ever heard of David Welch or the like? It would seem he works well with those on the bump. As for a Roberts acquisition, I still am against it. Weeks continues to get on base and there can't be a soul alive who can argue Roberts has more power than Weeks. The fact that Weeks' glove has finally arrived only furthers my belief that his bat is soon to follow. And I would put his second half last year against any second half Roberts has had.

[paulmolitor4]

I still say let him stick it out at catcher and let the chips fall as they may. If and when he figures out his footwork, his bat will be equivocal to Geovany Soto...hopefully more. And the fact that he is the starting catcher for the AA AS Game speaks volumes, as does the inclusion of a few other Huntsville pitchers whose names escape me because...well do you think most baseball fanatics outside of Brewerfan.net have ever heard of David Welch or the like? It would seem he works well with those on the bump. As for a Roberts acquisition, I still am against it. Weeks continues to get on base and there can't be a soul alive who can argue Roberts has more power than Weeks. The fact that Weeks' glove has finally arrived only furthers my belief that his bat is soon to follow. And I would put his second half last year against any second half Roberts has had.

This may be a moot point if Roberts isn't available for any type of reasonable trade, but my question to those whom just want to "hang in there" with Weeks and hope he realizes his potential is this: Is it worth potentially sacrificing the opportunity at postseason play/being a W.S. contender in order to wait him out and see if he comes around? Which at this point is a legitimate concern, because at this point in time I cannot see how anyone could argue that the Brewers wouldn't have a better chance at making a run with Roberts at the top of the lineup as opposed to Weeks (although I'm sure someone will argue it). I guess the crux of the question is this: Is it worth going for it now, and MAYBE sacrifing having a better chance with Weeks at some point in the future?

[smbrewersfan15]

So Doug said Roberts wasn't available? So does that mean something is going to happen soon? Since we all have learned how to Melvin-speak over the years. While I love Roberts and it would be great to see someone others than Weeks and his Ks in there; I fully agree with those that have posted about how it seems it would take an offer of Weeks plus one of the top prospects. I'm not sure Roberts is worth giving up that much. We are also talking about delusional owner Peter Angelos here. He always seems to want to get the best players for his guys. I'm surprised they didn't ask for Oswalt when they traded Tejada. I say that in jest but it seems pretty evident that Roberts is one of his favorites. Somehow Ray Durham doesn't make me excited as much as getting Roberts would as it would also be a slap in the face to the Cubs.

[RU Rah Rah]

Weeks continues to get on base and there can't be a soul alive who can argue Roberts has more power than Weeks. The fact that Weeks' glove has finally arrived only furthers my belief that his bat is soon to follow. And I would put his second half last year against any second half Roberts has had.

Rickie's OBP is .320. Over the past month, it has been .302. That's woeful for any spot in the order, but it's especially bad for lead-off.

I agree that Rickie has more pop, but he hasn't shown it this year. He has one more HR than Roberts (8 to 7).

 

I know that you referenced "second half," but Roberts has had a half-season (the first half of 2005) that was better than Rickie's second half last year. (OPS was 100 points higher than Rickie's.) I certainly wouldn't expect Roberts to have a 1.00 OPS over the second half this year, but neither would I expect Rickie to have a .900 OPS.

 

Roberts' adjusted OPS this year is 130. Rickie's is 81. In fact, last year, even with his great second half, Rickie's OPS+ was only 108. That's the only time he's been over 100 -- above average -- in his career.

 

I'd take the reality of Roberts over the potential of Rickie any day.

[mpepy05]

Right now, anyone would take Roberts over Rickie if they are "going for it." What's the price though? I could certainly live with anything while not parting with Gamel and Jeffress and some others.

 

This may be for another thread.

 

If we don't move for a replacement for Rickie(whether Rickie not hitting has anything to do with it at all), would it be suitable to revisit the pitcher batting 8th approach. With Hardy hitting the way he is, I think this would be one the most opportune times for it.

[splitterpfj]

BaltimoreSun.com provides an overview of Orioles who may be available....

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-ostrades0716,0,5837419.story?track=rss

[splitterpfj]

ESPN's Jayson Stark points out -

 

Daniel Cabrera leads the American League in Hit Batsmen, Wild Pitches and Bases on Balls.

 

How does one say, "Do Not Trade For This Guy", without sounding rude?

[Oldcity]

I never knew George Sherrill was immune to pressure. That's really something.

[Greg Pappas]

Matt Wieters is a Top 20 prospect (overall), he's not just a guy who can fill the catcher position.

 

I really don't think Salome would enter into a discussion with Baltimore, they are all over acquiring a shortstop at this point.

 

Honestly, I'd expect Roberts to stay right where he is for the moment, with Baltimore perhaps trying to do a new deal with him in the off-season. If he is dealt, it won't be cheap, I think Weeks, Escobar and a young pitcher for Roberts and a veteran reliever would be in the ballpark.

 

Great post, and FWIW-- I enjoy your posts the most sir.

 

As regards BRob, you are correct in the assumption that a SS and Weeks would likely be the requirement, as Roberts has a high value here. Let me assure you all, Brian can flat-out play. Tremendous leadoff hitter and very solid defender at 2B. Among the best 2B'man in the game and has been for a few years.

 

Weeks, Escobar and Fredrickson for Roberts and Bradford should do it, IF our GM MacPhail is inclined to take serious offers, well... seriously. He could be looking to get one other prospect as well, like an Anundsen.

[pete]

As regards BRob, you are correct in the assumption that a SS and Weeks would likely be the requirement, as Roberts has a high value here.

 

 

Weeks, Escobar and Fredrickson for Roberts and Bradford should do it, IF our GM MacPhail is inclined to take serious offers, well... seriously. He could be looking to get one other prospect as well, like an Anundsen.

 

You probably could get a quality SS prospect and Weeks. But Weeks' arbitration years, six years of Escobar, six years of the 35th guy in the draft (who can't be traded) plus yet another quality pitching prospect for a year and a third of Brian Roberts plus a ROOGY. I'm sure your GM would take that and laugh and party for a couple weeks straight if not longer.

 

Plus all the years you get don't even start costing much of anything till the three prospects have put in a cumulative nine years in the majors and you can start the clocks whenever you feel like it. The Brewers will pay more for Roberts year and a third.

 

I enjoy fantasies as much as the next guy, but that's all it is - sort of a baseball version of Penthouse letters.

 

You can talk about how much the Brewers would benefit, but the Orioles are going nowhere fast. They seem to me like a franchise that's happy to be about .500 and making a profit while not really trying to be competitive. Brian Roberts sells tickets and so he'll be around.

[And That]

Alcides Escobar is just not going to be traded for a year and a half of Brian Roberts. It's not worth it to be the Brewers long term, especially when they might be able to get Mark Grudzielanek and keep Weeks. Grudz is a bit worse than Roberts at the plate, but he's certainly an upgrade to Weeks right now, and he's as good defensively as Roberts.

 

If it came down to:

 

Weeks, Escobar and R.J. Seidel for Roberts and Bradford; or,

Brad Nelson and Darren Ford for Grudzielanek

 

...there's not even a question. Get Grudz and look at second base again in the offseason.

[splitterpfj]

GPappas, thanks for the compliment.

 

As Pete pointed out, the Brewers could not trade Fredrickson at this point, even if they were inclined to - the rules prohibit dealing draft choices during the first year of their contract.

 

If the O's stick to the shortstop position, I'd bet against a Roberts-to-Milwaukee deal at this point. If the Brewers thought Alcides Escobar was going to be an average major league shortstop, maybe they don't worry too much about it - but they don't, they think he's going to be a star. That mindset will make it very tough for Mr MacPhail to get what he wants, since dealing Hardy would make no sense at this point either in a "win-now" trade for Milwaukee.

 

No one could question the impact Roberts might have on the Brewers, he's a perfect fit for what the Brewers need right now, and they've already announced, "We're going for it." On top of that, the Brewers would have no position for Weeks if they added Roberts, and both sides know that, so Weeks' impact on the deal may be compromised. All of these things put the Orioles in the driver's seat on this one, they will get a very solid return if they do this now, probably better than most Brewers fans would hope for.

 

That is why I think this will not happen at this point. I think when the Brewers break it all down, they'll decide Roberts is too expensive, regardless of his ability, and they'll go for a less-expensive alternative. I expect the two teams to get into this issue in November.

[TauPentaRei]

is Hardy moving to 2nd or 3rd in the scenario where Escobar becomes the star SS of the future?

[splitterpfj]

Hardy might be the most interesting player on the roster this off-season. He could play SS, 2B, or 3B next year, or he could be traded for pitching help.

 

The Brewers have time with Escobar, he's only 21. They could give him all of next season in AAA, if they think that's best.

[Oldcity]

I know endaround pointed this out at some point, but I don't see Hardy moving willingly. He'd cost himself millions long-term by not sticking at shortstop.