DiFelice Sent Down to AAA, Gagné Up

[brewmann04]

Cards and Cubs play each other this weekend so we should be able to pick up some ground.

[brewmann04]

Gange should have one last chance here but we can't afford to be blowing games in Critical times.

[jhart05]

Everyone knows you can't have too many relief pitchers.

 

If you're a Brewer fan, you have to root for the guy to turn it around, and be an effective option out of the pen.

[RU Rah Rah]

I'd just try to nurse him along in low-stress situations, and have him eat some innings. Torres is making the closer issue pretty easy to figure out, at least for the time being. I just hope they don't force things because of the size of EG's contract.

[lukevan]

Bring him in to a few 3-4 run games at first but I think he can still pitch some meaningful innings effectively this season. I hope Gagne's ineffectiveness was tied to his injury.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just think all the 'GAGNE STINKS!' talk is a bit overstated. He really wasn't that bad, just didn't provide what most feel $10M should 'buy' you. 12 'good' outings, 8 'bad' outings by my count. That's a bit simplistic, but it's not like he's this bum that people try to make him out to be. I agree with jhart -- he's another solid arm in the bullpen. Very rarely do things shake out the way they're planned back in ST, especially with something as fickle as a bullpen. Gagne could be lights-out (not suggesting that I think he will be) in the second half, and people will just see his ERA and say, "See? I told you he's washed up"

 

--So how was it 'planned'?

 

CP - Gagne

SU - Riske

MR - Mota/Torres/McClung/Shouse

 

--How'd it 'shake out' (so far)?

 

CP - Torres

SU - Mota/Riske/Gagne

MR - Mota/Gagne/Shouse/Villy

 

 

It looks to me that we've got several quality arms in the bullpen. I seriously kinda doubt that the way the 'pen is structured now is even how it'll look on Sept. 5th. I liked Melvin's philosophy on the bullpen before the season, and I still like it now. Get as many talented arms as you can, and just let the playing time work itself out.

[Fatter than Joey]

He really wasn't that bad, just didn't provide what most feel $10M should 'buy' you. 12 'good' outings, 8 'bad' outings by my count. That's a bit simplistic, but it's not like he's this bum that people try to make him out to be

 

I disagree -- 8 bad outings in 20, is pretty unacceptable and bum-like.

 

In a sport where the greatest hitters get out 50% of the time, I find a 40% "bad rate" overall very alarming.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It looks to me that we've got several quality arms in the bullpen. I seriously kinda doubt that the way the 'pen is structured now is even how it'll look on Sept. 5th. I liked Melvin's philosophy on the bullpen before the season, and I still like it now. Get as many talented arms as you can, and just let the playing time work itself out.

Right on TLB. Melvin had two things he was looking for in the bullpen...a better & deeper arsenal of set-up men (to keep away from the overuse problem of 2007) and a replacement for Cordero (after failing to re-sign him). We may have entered the year without a top flight guy like Coco, but this bullpen is much deeper. Granted, a guy or two were likely not to pan out...maybe it's Gagne, but he had many more "shots on goal" including Torres who could arguably be the team MVP right now. Gagne and his contract will be gone in 2009. Whether this works out or not in the second half, I applaud Melvin for taking the lower risk shot and for deepening the bullpen.

[MickeyDavis]

8 "bad" outings and 12 "good" outings is horrible.

 

Using the same line of reasoning Mark D had one bad outing (his first one) and since then has allowed 3 earned runs in 12+ innings. With NO walks. Pretty damn good.

 

I, like all Brewer fans, hopes Gagne turns it around. But he has pitched 40 games and 38 innings with the Crew and Boston. That's more than he pitched in Texas (34 games, 33 innings). The trend is definitely downward.

 

If the goal is playoffs this year then you put your best pitchers in the bullpen.

[Thurston Fluff]

If Ned brings him along like he has Riske then he will be given every chance to prove he belongs without undue risk to winning games. I doubt his changed role hurt him in Boston like Melvin would have us believe so I'm not overly worried about the change in role effecting him now. If he can be average the Brewers will be better off with him than without.

[TooLiveBrew]

I disagree -- 8 bad outings in 20, is pretty unacceptable and bum-like.

We've already had this song & dance. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I don't think Gagne has been as bad as many (most?) do. That's all. I don't find some struggles over a whopping 19 1/3 IP for a RP all that troubling. Yes, it sucks that the most expensive guy we added has turned out to be right there for 'worst', but that's how it goes sometimes -- not to mention that his 'bum-like-ish-ness' was pretty clearly affected by injury. I'm interested to see how effective he can be if indeed the injury was holding him back & he's now healthy/ier.


Gagne and his contract will be gone in 2009. Whether this works out or not in the second half, I applaud Melvin for taking the lower risk shot and for deepening the bullpen.

Yes, me too. Gagne's contract was basically Melvin playing with house money. I really, really like one-year deals for FA with a club like Milwaukee, especially when you're talking about filling out a bullpen.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't find some struggles over a whopping 19 1/3 IP for a RP all that troubling.

I hope you're right. But his struggles actually go back to his last 40 innings, longer than his "good" stretch in Texas.

 

I really hope I'm wrong here. I'd love an effective Gagne instead of Mota in the 8th.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's true, and a good point. I didn't mean to cherry-pick, but that's exactly what I was doing.

 

An injury certainly makes more sense than a mysterious loss of skill to me as an explanation.

[MickeyDavis]

I hope we see a nice 8-1 Brewer lead tonight so we can see what we have with him.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't find some struggles over a whopping 19 1/3 IP for a RP all that troubling.

 

I do. 19 IP is a significant portion of a RP's season. By your admission, he has been bad 40% of the time. Turnbow has only pitched 13 IP in Nash.,

I'm pretty confident in sticking a "do not recall" sticker on him as well.

 

not to mention that his 'bum-like-ish-ness' was pretty clearly affected by injury.

 

I disagree -- He has been bad all year, from game 1, or as you point out 40% of the time. I don't think if you map out his injuries and appearances over a time axis, you will not find a point where he got hurt, and things went south. If he has been hurt all year, Melvin is an idiot for signing him, and continuing to play him.

 

I'm interested to see how effective he can be if indeed the injury was holding him back & he's now healthy/ier.

 

I am, if he is doing it in Nashville. If Gagne had put together 3-4 good appearances in Nash., I'd be more optimistic.

 

Gagne's contract was basically Melvin playing with house money. I really, really like one-year deals for FA with a club like Milwaukee, especially when you're talking about filling out a bullpen.

 

I have no problem with the signing of Gagne, it's the continued use of Gagne that bothers me. I understand DM took a risk in signing Gagne, but, there is a point where DM needs to cut bait. The only reason that Gagne is getting the ball over DeFelice, is that Gagne is making $10M.

 

DeFelice is pitching well, bumping him to roll the dice on Gagne makes no sense -- other than DM saving face.

[yount19.u]

My prediction: Gange blows at least one lead in Arizona, the team slips into a bit of a funk over the next couple weeks and don't pick up ground on St. Louis or the Cubs; and Ned loses his job over the All Star break.

God, I hope your wrong.

[lukevan]

The only reason that Gagne is getting the ball over DeFelice, is that Gagne is making $10M.

 

To be fair, Gagne also has shown extreme effectiveness in the recent past, something worth taking a chance on, whereas DeFelice can be recalled at any time.

 

I don't mind Melvin giving him another shot to show he can be an effective part of the pen. If he continues to allow runs (2 or 3 bad appearances) we can put him on waivers, but I think it's too soon right now, let's see what he does with, presumably, a clean bill of health. Gagne looked good at times so it's not like he can't get outs anymore. We will see. I just don't see it as a bad thing to take another shot with him. Just don't put him in the game with a 1-2 run lead right now.

[Thurston Fluff]

The only reason that Gagne is getting the ball over DeFelice, is that Gagne is making $10M.

 

DeFelice is pitching well, bumping him to roll the dice on Gagne makes no sense -- other than DM saving face.

 

I agree with this for the most part. It is worth noting however the upside to Gagne is better than DeFelice. He has a much longer history of being an effective reliever in the majors. Most of that is tainted with PED's and injury but some of it was last year. DiFelice has not been able to put up the same numbers as Gagne did in Texas last year and was never really anything more than minor league fodder for his entire career until the small amount of time he's been in Milwaukee. It's nice to see him come in and not flop because it shows maybe he can help out some in the future but I still think Gagne can be better than DiFelice.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I just love Yost's reasoning of why Gagne will suddenly be an effective non-closing reliever, when Brewers brass tried to explain away his 8th inning struggles in Boston as 'being used in non-save situations'. Apparently, now it's cool to put Gagne in a setup role because 'he's had that experience, and he can adjust'.

 

Methinks Mr. Yost and Mr. Melvin have been spending too much time on the rhetorical "sit n' spin" when it comes to mining for reasons to expect Gagne to succeed and display public confidence in him. I hope he's effective, but if he's not, I really hope the leesh is extremely short and Melvin is willing to chalk the Gagne signing up as a bad one.

[Fatter than Joey]

To be fair, Gagne also has shown extreme effectiveness in the recent past, something worth taking a chance on

 

When? --

 

In his 20 games with the Brewers, in only 4 did he retire all the batters he faced.

 

With Boston, in his 20 appearances, he retired the side in order 5 times.

 

With Texas he retired the side in order 11 times out of 34.

 

I'd say its been awhile (since Texas) since Gagne has demonstrated "extreme effectiveness".

[zzzmanwitz]

The best you are going to get with DeFelice is average. The best you can get from Gagne is Cy Young Caliber. You have to give him another shot. I'll give him until at least the trade deadline to show us what he's got.

[craigharmann]

The best you can get from Gagne is Cy Young Caliber.

Has he been that way since he gave up roids?

 

[zzzmanwitz]

The best you can get from Gagne is Cy Young Caliber.

Has he been that way since he gave up roids?

 

First half last year... do we know exactly when he gave them up?

[Fatter than Joey]

Most of that is tainted with PED's and injury but some of it was last year.

Bingo!

The best you are going to get with DeFelice is average.

 

Sign me up for average.

The best you can get from Gagne is Cy Young Caliber.

If the Brewers have one of these in the clubhouse I will concede this point.

 

http://johnthenewsking.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/time-machine4web.jpg

[bjkrautk]

I just love Yost's reasoning of why Gagne will suddenly be an effective non-closing reliever, when Brewers brass tried to explain away his 8th inning struggles in Boston as 'being used in non-save situations'. Apparently, now it's cool to put Gagne in a setup role because 'he's had that experience, and he can adjust'.

 

Methinks Mr. Yost and Mr. Melvin have been spending too much time on the rhetorical "sit n' spin" when it comes to mining for reasons to expect Gagne to succeed and display public confidence in him. I hope he's effective, but if he's not, I really hope the leesh is extremely short and Melvin is willing to chalk the Gagne signing up as a bad one.

 

I chuckled when I read that one as well....but how would you answer that question in his predicament? The money invested in the player - and the history which produced that kind of investment, dictates he be given another chance to prove himself an effective reliever. If he can put up the kind of numbers he did in April of this year (.227 OBA, 3.98 ERA, 5bb:11k's) in a setup role, it won't justify the contract, but it'll certainly justify keeping him on the roster.