Sheets testing the market

[Brian the Automator]

Just read this. This upsets me quite a bit. I know he has had injury problems, but even with Gallardo back our rotation is not playoff calliber without him. They need to find a way to keep hib, but someone will throw a lot of money at him.

 

If someone's going to throw gobs of money at him ala Carlos Lee, there's nothing that you can do about it, and in my opinion, nothing you should do about it.

 

I don't see why the club needsto spend money on an "ace". I'd rather go get a pair of "#2-esque" pitchers, and mitigate the risk.

[TooLiveBrew]

So maybe 'Mark said he'd sign him!' wasn't more than posturing?

 

 

"At this point, even if the Brewers came calling with a new offer, Sheets admitted he probably wouldn't listen.

 

'In all honesty, that would be pretty tough (not to test the market),' he said. 'We're getting pretty deep (into the season). It would be hard not to (test the market), especially when you start putting together a (big) year.'"

 

 

I can't say I blame Ben. This is the one payday he's been working for his entire career. It's just very unlikely (imo) that the Brewers are better-off locking up $75-100M in one pitcher. Even if Ben is ridiculously good.

[trwi7]

the saddest part of all is what will happen to the Admirals.

Sheets possible departure and a shot at the Admirals. Wow, two low blows at once for me. I mean I knew it was likely that Sheets was going to test the market and he may not be back but I didn't want to think about it until after the season. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[owbc]

the saddest part of all is what will happen to the Admirals.

But then again, Sheets will have enough money to buy the Admirals, change their name to the Milwaukee "Ben Sheets is awesome!", make their logo a picture of him, and build them a new area called the "Sheets Center"

[Tbadder]

In the case of Sheets I think it would be stupid to let him walk for picks. If we can get a Gallardo-like #2 and another prospect I say trade him and try to stick and hope we can still nail down the wild card.

[obobo55]

Tbad, the problem with your scenario though is what team is going to trade a Gallardo type for Sheets who will be a FA? Sure sheets may be better than their guy, but the teams that will be in the market are the teams in contention for the playoffs and they would just pitch that guy and take their best shot too. You could maybe pull a deal where you get 2-3 guys with that potential that are a year away, but then you are torpedoing your chances this year.

 

Best case scenario as far as trading Benny is for the team to drop out of the race. If they are in the playoff hunt, they keep him and take their chances in signing him in the offseason. What do most here think is beyond what the Brewer's would offer? I would go 5 years for $100 million (its not my $$$). I think his injury history is over as most of those were very fluky injuries. To me an ace of his caliber is worth that yearly amount and the length of the deal is reasonable, that takes him to age 35 at the end of the deal. Will a team go to 6 years with his history?

 

I know it is a huge risk for a team like the Brewers to take, but it takes an ace to win (particularly in the postseason) and as much as I like Yo, I don't see anyone they have now doing what Ben can. Perhaps Melvin can pull off a miracle and trade for one but I doubt they could sign one in FA either so I would take the risk on him.

[hammytime]

I would hate to see him go, but I think that's the nature of the game these days. You don't see guys staying with one team for their entire careers any more. That being said, he also strikes me as the kind of guy who would stay in one place regardless of other offers. I see him as the kind of player who believes that loyalty is a priority.

[danzig6767]

Sheets is gone

 

If the Brewers want a chance at acquiring a front of the rotation starter for next season, it's going to have to com via trade and cost us a player like Prince in return.

[giffted1]

It would sure be nice to bring Benny back, but we're still a small market team. Ben could net over 100 million on the market and the crew simply can't afford it. Lets just enjoy these last few months with him and hope the picks turn into something good.

[SeriesFinale]

Big Ben's words speak volumes to me:

 

"That's the direction I'm headed right now," said Sheets. "You can't invite yourself back."

Sheets referred to the club's decision not to try to negotiate a new deal before or during the 2008 season. General manager Doug Melvin has said on more than one occasion that he preferred not to address Sheets' contract status until after the season.

I think that despite the fact he will test the market, there's a good chance that Sheets gives the Crew as much a "hometown discount" as feasible for him and his family given this is likely gonna be his last best massive payday. It sounds to me like he's mostly reacting to terms dictated by the team right now.

 

I think he likes being "the man" here, is ready to lead the charge to a title for the team that drafted him and that he's seen and help grow into a winner first-hand, wants to see #15 right next to #19 and #4, appreciates the stability as a husband and father, and there's nothing about him that makes me think he'd want to go to a huge market.

 

If it's not enough for both sides to work something out, so be it, I understand why he'd feel he needed to do it for his family, and I understand why the Brewers feel they couldn't or shouldn't throw Fort Knox at him, but I do think it'll leave a massive gaping hole in the rotation and a bruising injury to the Brewers' chances at a title next year.

 

Anyway, some of the jsonline's commenters, who really scrape the bottom of the barrel, seem to think dominating curveballer aces fall off trees:

 

I'm glad Milwaukee is moving on. Sheets current 4 year deal was a rip off. He was a puss when it counted down the stretch last year.

There are many ways to add an ace pitcher, DM will find a way.

Holy smokes, when will these people learn.

[ILuvDaBush]

There are many ways to add an ace pitcher, DM will find a way.

I'm quite the proponent of Melvin's, but it must be asked, How many ace pitchers has Doug Melvin acquired? He lucked out by inheriting Sheets, and Jack Z. acquired Yo, and it's even debateable if Yo is a certifiable ace. But for the same reasons that I bring up Doug's history is why I wouldn't be behind giving Ben a 5/$100+ contract. With our youth due to be paid in the following five years, I just don't see how you can be committing a quarter of your payroll to one gent. I was hoping for a Chris Carpenter-type deal, but I'd be willing now go 5/80 to 7/120.... He is the Golden Boy of Milwaukee, and I want to see him in pinstripes long term almost as much as I would enjoy seeing the Regal One retire as a Brewer (and not in the next 3 years, which is about the only way it will happen as long as we flourish in the NL).

[bklynbrewcrew]

This whole situation is very sad to me. Its obvious from these comments that Sheets has wanted the team to engage him in long term contract discussions and I bet he was willing to give us a nice discount like Peavy gave the Padres. Unfortunately Melvin and Attanassio havent had the guts to take a chance and sign Benny before the season. Ben Sheets is the best pitcher this team has ever had and he will be impossible to replace. He is an ace and the leader of this staff. Sheets is also a great clubhouse presence who seems very well liked by his teamates. I really hope that ownership comes to its senses and offers Sheets a deal in the neighborhood of 5 yr 80 million during the all star break. Once he files for free agency he is probably as good as gone.

 

Who is this team gonna replace Sheets with anyway? Is Melvin gonna give an average free agent like Derek Lowe a 3 yr 40 million type of deal this offseason? The thing that bothers me most about this situation is that this organization doesnt seem to realize that an ace starter is the most important asset to have in order to be playoff contenders most years. Its great to have young stars like Braun and Fielder to build around but its very difficult to compete for championships when you have a bunch of number 4 and 5 starters in your rotation. Bottom line is Melvin and Attanassio have dropped the ball big time in regards to Sheets and losing him will likely hurt thgis team big time for years to come. Please Mark A come to your senses and open the checkbook for Sheets as soon as possible!

[davego]

This is an entirely different situation than CoCo

closers are decently easy to find, look at what we have had in the past. Wickman, Leskanic, Kolb, Turnbow

But true aces are rare. Yo hasn't really proved much yet. Sheets gives us almost an automatic win.


I agree that a top-shelf starter like Ben has much more value then a closer. That is also not the point I tried to make. All I'm trying to say is I hope Ben and his agent would come to Doug with whatever their best offer is an allow an opportunity to match. If you recall, CoCo and his representative did not. Other then that, I'd say Ben can do what he will.

[BrewCrewForever]

I like what SeriesFinale said. Pitchers like Ben don't come around to often and he has shown that he is as good as anyone in all of baseball. There will always be people who talk about the injury bug and what not with Ben. But I think the reward outweighs any risk in re-signing Ben to another deal. Look at how big he has been for us this season, where would we be without him? I accept the fact that he may not be here next season, but I hold out hope everyday that he will be. Because he is very good and a real pleasure to watch pitch.

[foamboy1]

On opening day of 2007 I created a post that said offer Sheets a three-year $45 million dollar extension. At that point, he had injuries, but had 2007 and 2008 under contract. People crushed me in response. That was the time to get him. It's not the amount of money per year that would cause Milwaukee to flinch...it's the total amount of dollars with the years. He'll get a five or six year deal for between 90 and 120 million now, rather than the affordable three year, $45 million would might have done last year. Now we lose him because we couldn't think far enough in advance. It's a shame. For a team to be competitive, you need guys like Sheets and you just can't replace them from within.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I am in total agreement with this sentiment. Brewer Management failed to take a chance and I would think before the season coming off all of the injuries BS would have jumped at a 4 yr deal for say $52 million, now it may cost $80 million or above. Acquiring an ace will probably cost Fielder or LaPorta and that won't improve us that will help replace BS. At some point, I would have no problem replacing Melvin with Jack Z!!

 

Melvin basically has nothing to show for his trades currently as the Brewer GM. I will say he has picked up some nice nuggets but on the trading front he is not helping this team get over the top, hopefully the boys on the field can do it themselves because they ain't getting much help. I reserve the right to change my opinion if Melvin can get Sabathia or someone lights out to pitch the 8th inning http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

Go BREW

[Invader3K]

I don't see how any reasonable person can blame the Brewers for not trying to re-sign Sheets before this season. He has missed significant playing time the last three seasons. If they had signed him to a $60 million extension (or whatever amount) and he went down again this year, they would never hear the end of it.

[MessiahRp]

I guess I am curious if the increased attendance, and by increased I mean by a ton, over the past couple of years has and should keep us in the small market mentality. If we're making a decent enough profit we should be able to afford a couple of big contracts. Now I would prefer if we could win on the cheap but Aces don't grow on trees (nor do 50 HR hitting, MVP caliber superstar first basemen for that matter) and I don't see a better option than Sheets out there. When he's healthy Sheets is a top 5 or top 10 pitcher in the Bigs. Nobody on the market will even approach that.

 

Do I want to give Sheets $100 million? Not particularly. But we should be able to bite the bullet on a few big contracts at this point and be economically capable of competing.

 

Especially if we were to move Bill Hall, Gagne and a few other contract albatrosses off the roster after this season.

 

I would think we could afford a $90 million payroll now because if we're winning people are buying and coming to games at a rate that should make a bump in payroll feasible. People will anticipate keeping major players as trying to win.

 

Now I don't think this should extend beyond Sheets and maybe Prince personally. They seem to be special cases. It shouldn't be as costly to keep Hart or JJ Hardy/Rickie Weeks (if we want to retain them) and Gallardo would be the only real payroll hurdle to worry about. With Gallardo you still have some Arby years left and the guys only pitched half a season so far so you have some wiggle room there.

 

I think if we were willing to offer $42 million for Coco who is nowhere near as valuable as Sheets, I think we could pony up even more to keep Bennie a Brewer.

 

That's just my two cents.

 

Rp

[Diskono]

I'm quite the proponent of Melvin's, but it must be asked, How many ace pitchers has Doug Melvin acquired?

 

 

http://www.derivataters.com/mcclung-blue.jpg

 

[Fatter than Joey]

If someone's going to throw gobs of money at him ala Carlos Lee, there's nothing that you can do about it, and in my opinion, nothing you should do about it.

 

At this point. I think things could have been done a year ago, but at this point it looks like Ben's next contract is going to get fatter and more obscene. If he pitches the rest of the season like he did in his last start, he will get leave the Brewers, but we should be in a good place in either the WC or divisional standings.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Thanks to management not being proactive with Sheets we will probably lose him. I guess Melvin thinks he can compete with the likes of Bush, Suppan, and McClung. Good luck with that thinking. This is why I have little faith that Melvin is capable of putting together a championship level pitching staff. Offering a closer like Cordero 42 mil for 4 yrs and paying Suppan 10 mil per year as well as giving big money to a stiff like Gagne while ignoring your staffs ace is assinine and a big reason why Jack Z should replace Melvin. I can just see Derek Lowe being handed a 3 yr 40 million contract while Sheets takes his Cy Young abilities elsewhere. Ben Sheets is irreplaceable.

[DatHoser]

I'm not convinced he's gone. Maybe it's my blue-colored glasses (BTW, nice pic Diskono!) but Sheets current contract is $11 mil. Gagne's $10 mil. comes off the books, which would leave enough to re-sign Ben and work on retaining other players (ahem, Hart, cough, cough).

 

Then again, it's play money to me.

[bcf5575]

i can not believe some of the comments in this thread.

1. I would rather have the draft picks.
What??? Getting draft picks is NOT adequate compensation for losing sheets. I don't care if we get 10 draft picks - none of them are bonafide #1 major league starting pitchers. I dont want to just have a great minor league system - I want a great big league team! I am sick and tired of constantly waiting for the next group of guys to come up thru the system. That is where we are now - this is our group of guys that we have waited years for; Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Hall, Braun. These guys are ready to enter the prime of their careers and I want to win with THIS group. We will not win with this group unless we have pitching to back it up. The brewers have not developed any pitching to take Sheets place. Gallardo? He is the most promising, but like seemingly all of our pitching prospects he is now injured. Parra has looked pretty good this year, but is no where near sheets level.
This is not football where draft picks can make a big splash the same year they are selecterd. I am not interested in waiting 5 years for a draft pick to develop and ease the pain of losing Ben Sheets.

2. If Ben leaves, Melvin will just go get another ace.
What? If it was that easy then why are we worried about losing Sheets - everybody must have a staff full of Ben Sheets types already. And what kind of ace are we going to get that isnt going to cost the same as Sheets? why not keep our own guy?

3. I'd rather have 2 #2 starters.
Where are we going to get these pitchers? If we can't afford Sheets - then we cant even afford 2 more Jeff Suppans. How many here consider Suppan a #2? Not many - he is an average starter and he costs a lot of money too...


I can understand if the Brewers lose a biding war for sheets. but why let it get to that? they are the only team that can talk to him right now. maybe he will give them a "home town" discount - who knows? they might get one now, but they wont get one in November when the yankees and red sox and (gulp!!) the Cubs are offering 6 years $130 mil.

in march I got not talking new contract. I dont get it now.

[GoudaBrew]

MLBTR speculates that Sheets might get a Jason Schmidt like contract of $47 million over 3 years. That seems low on years and dollars to me. In the comments someone speculated that he might prefer a 3 year contract so he can once again be a free agent at 33 as opposed to 35 (if he signed a 5 year deal). Sign me up for $47/3 for sure.

 

Link to story

[RightFieldCoder]

Melvin ignored the staff ace that has been injured and has failed to win more than 12 games in the last 3 years. It's perfect to say we should have signed him in hindsight, but we need to think of what it was like before the season. Melvin is getting poo poo'd for Suppan, imaging if he gave Sheets a huge contract and he got injured again? People would be saying Melvin can't put together a staff by overpaying for Sheets and Suppan. The only thing we can do is hope Benny will give us a home town discount. But I have a feeling someone is going to put a $125-$150M check in front of Sheets that will make it real hard to take Milwaukee's $100M.