How do we get the most from Rickie Weeks?

[Postseason2006]

which is pretty in line with expectations

If that is your expectations, well that's not very good at all. Rickie was proclaimed as a player that needed minor league ball to improve his fielding and that his bat was major league ready.

[kramnoj]

which is pretty in line with expectations

If that is your expectations, well that's not very good at all. Rickie was proclaimed as a player that needed minor league ball to improve his fielding and that his bat was major league ready.

 

A 755 OPS would place Weeks 11th among qualified 2B. Do you not think that is major league ready? As it is, Weeks is 14th among 2B, so that means his offensive level is average.

[Postseason2006]

We are talking about expectations. When he was drafted he was said to be the most major league ready bat 2nd baseman to come out in years. He has not lived up to the bill.

 

And no I do not think 11th is good for what he is doing because of his shoddy defense and his brainfarts running the bases.

 

Did you watch him on Thursday loafing back to first on the double play by Counsell? He would've made it back had he run.

[Dmiles23]

I'll chime in on Weeks. Yost and the management always says he needs to slow down and relax. So why in the world do they have him standing at the plate violently swinging his bat around, with his front foot bouncing around? It just seems to me that he has too much going on in his swing. If I remember correctly, he (or the team) put that bat waggle into his swing just before his first full year with the Brewers. If that's the case, why did they go away from what he was successful with in college and the minor leagues?

 

I would hate it if the Brewers decided to get rid of Weeks in the offseason and he was sent to a team that changed his stance/approach at the plate, causing him to improve dramatically. But I would also hate it if the Brewers retained him, and they didn't try something different with that. To me, relaxing is not flailing your bat around and moving your legs.

[kramnoj]

We are talking about expectations. When he was drafted he was said to be the most major league ready bat 2nd baseman to come out in years. He has not lived up to the bill.

 

And no I do not think 11th is good for what he is doing because of his shoddy defense and his brainfarts running the bases.

 

Did you watch him on Thursday loafing back to first on the double play by Counsell? He would've made it back had he run.

 

Yes, we are talking about expectations. The most reasonable expectations are those based on recent performance. Weeks is doing better than he was earlier this season, and his defense is better than it has been. He is now ranked 16th in Zone Rating. That combined with his offense makes him basically an average player this year for his position.

[homer]

Just because he's not living up to expectations does not mean he should be benched forever.

[Ennder]

A .755 OPS is about what expectations should have been going into this year and that is what I was talking about. He wouldn't be benched over a .755 OPS and that is what he has put up since mid May.

 

I agree that his baserunning and fielding are painful and if they want to bench him over that then I'm fine with it. I was just as mad as anyone else when he got doubled up at 1st base because he was jogging back instead of running.

[Gobias Industries]

I would hate it if the Brewers decided to get rid of Weeks in the offseason and he was sent to a team that changed his stance/approach at the plate, causing him to improve dramatically. But I would also hate it if the Brewers retained him, and they didn't try something different with that. To me, relaxing is not flailing your bat around and moving your legs.

 

I agree 100%. Once he goes to another team I always figured they'll try to overhaul his stance.

 

I don't know who's idea it was to switch it, or why they'd try to fix something that was working very well.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

.755 OPS might be average for a 2B, but most teams don't bat their 2B leadoff. With the way he is hitting, he should be hitting 7th or 8th. He just is an 'automatic out" far too often at the top of the order. Also, we can't cherrypick his OPS for the year is like .703. That is dreadful.

 

Average 2Bs are a dime a dozen. If that is what he is, thats fine, but the #2 player selected in the draft should be an impact player. Weeks, in no universe, is an impact player. He is, at best, a role player

[Ennder]

.755 OPS might be average for a 2B, but most teams don't bat their 2B leadoff. With the way he is hitting, he should be hitting 7th or 8th. He just is an 'automatic out" far too often at the top of the order. Also, we can't cherrypick his OPS for the year is like .703. That is dreadful.

You absolutely have to cherry pick stats when deciding whether to play or bench someone. What Weeks did in April or May has very little to do with whether he should be playing today or not. You look at what he has done over a 3 year period or so and what he has done recently pretty much when deciding something like this.

 

Same thing with the Fielder is hitting like a rookie again thread. What Fielder did in April and May is over and done with, they shouldn't change your expectations for August and September when his June/July stats were right in line with expectations.

 

I would sit Weeks against tough righties and play him the rest of the time, should get a .750-.800 OPS out of him by protecting him against those tough righties from this point on. The fact he was miserable in April really has nothing to do with it.

[endaround]

.755 OPS might be average for a 2B, but most teams don't bat their 2B leadoff. With the way he is hitting, he should be hitting 7th or 8th. He just is an 'automatic out" far too often at the top of the order. Also, we can't cherrypick his OPS for the year is like .703. That is dreadful.

 

Average 2Bs are a dime a dozen. If that is what he is, thats fine, but the #2 player selected in the draft should be an impact player. Weeks, in no universe, is an impact player. He is, at best, a role player

No the #2 player in the draft, if a position player should get to the major leagues, that's it. You have a really warped view of the draft otherwise. And given Fielder's not batting leadoff in this reality, who better than Weeks?

 

[Bucky Rules]

the #2 player selected in the draft should be an impact player

This isn't the NFL that is essentially drafting from the football equivalent of AA and/or AAA level baseball every year. If the draft took place every year from a pool of all minor league players, you would have a better argument. Really... the Brewers success with their top picks in recent years is amazing to me. Look around. Not many teams have truly hit on their picks in the Jack Z era like the Brewers have.

 

Besides... using that logic I can defend Rickie Weeks by saying that he has had a better career to this point than the #1 oa pick in that draft. Weeks and Young were the clear consensus 1 and 2 picks in that draft by the so-called experts.

[kramnoj]

755 OPS might be average for a 2B, but most teams don't bat their 2B leadoff.

 

Rickie doesn't write himself in the lineup.

 

Also, we can't cherrypick his OPS for the year is like .703. That is dreadful.

 

What cherries are you picking? His season OPS is .719. It is average among 2B right now. How is that dreadful?

 

Average 2Bs are a dime a dozen.

 

If this were true, there wouldn't be any 2B worse than Weeks, right?

 

If that is what he is, thats fine, but the #2 player selected in the draft should be an impact player.

 

Is that actually true? Are more than 50% of players taken 2nd in the draft better than what Weeks has done? Or an impact player, however you define that?

 

He is, at best, a role player

 

So, someone who is average at their position is a role player? You are using that word differently than most people do.

[TooLiveBrew]

We are talking about expectations.

 

This is the disconnect in Weeks discussions. When your expectations are that he's somehow supposed to be a superstar, *or else!*, of course you're disappointed.

[bullox]

Here are the 2nd Overall picks from the last 20 years for reference:

 

http://www.petaimg.com/uploads/1217769882.gif

 

Also the 2nd overall picks from 1980, 82, and 87 never saw the big leagues.

 

link

[paul253]

Durham is worse defensively and about the same offensively and Counsell is a good bit behind Weeks offensively and better defensively.

 

There is no way Durham's defense is worse. Weeks' defense cost us game one vs Chicago, which could have completely turned the series around. His throwing "miscue" (cant be called an error because it was on a double play ball) just cost Sabathia a run and got us down early in game 2 vs. Atlanta. His defense has taken a step backward, i think, from last year. Durham may not have as much range as he used to, but at least he can make the routine plays, and throws, something Weeks cannot do.

 

Hitting wise, his approach is horrible. Every time he swings it looks like he's trying to hit the ball out of the stadium. I cant remember the last time i saw him try to take the ball to rightfield. That stupid Gary Sheffield like bat wag doesnt do him any good. He has a good on base percentage, and he can swipe some bases, but offensively that is literally all he has too offer. He has plenty of "potential", but he has done nothing to show me he's ever going to reach it. I hope Green and Lawrie both move to second so we can finally have some prospects to replace him in a few seasons.

[yount19.u]

Durham certainly does not have near the range or arm strength that Weeks has on defense. What he does have is better hands and he tends to "turn outs into outs." The Brewers need that defensive consistency as well as Durham's ability to hit for average and get on base. Weeks will make the spectacular play from time to time and his bat will show flashes of brilliance, but too many strike outs, pop flys and errors in between hurts the Crew. I say platoon Weeks and Durham until Weeks can show that he will consistently get on base and "turn outs into outs" on defense.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Brewers need that defensive consistency as well as Durham's ability to hit for average and get on base.

 

The defensive consistency is outweighed by superior range, and one can certainly make the argument that Durham's lack of any range at 2B makes him the complete opposite of 'consistent'.

 

And it's been re-hashed time & time again, but the offensive side is where Durham's skills are least favorable to Weeks. I agree with Ennder -- perhaps the best course of action is to get Durham in v. high-end RHP, but Weeks should be playing against everyone else... especially LHP.

 

 

Weeks will make the spectacular play from time to time and his bat will show flashes of brilliance, but too many strike outs, pop flys and errors in between hurts the Crew.

 

But Weeks makes far more plays than Durham, even with the errors. If the satisfaction of Durham making the easy play easily is more important to fans, then I can see why there's occasional outrage over Weeks. In terms of offense, Durham is actually likely to make as many if not more outs than Rickie the rest of the way, as he's played over his head (or past production) v. RHP this season so far. Durham won't continue at this pace, nor should the fact that it's a tiny sample be discounted, but he's been very bad so far for the Crew, both on offense & defense. Imo it just illustrates how over-dramatic the reactions to Weeks have been. Is he a superstar? No. But he's far superior to what many would have you believe.

[holybannana]

Ricky had a great July. Yeah, he botched a play in that game. And his defense is forever a work in progress. And he doesn't bunt to get on and a host of other problems. But overall he had a very good July. Just keep him in there. The teams winning.

[Postseason2006]

http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20030603&content_id=351602&vkey=draft2003&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

 

The 20-year-old batted .493 this season for Southern University and won his second consecutive NCAA batting title. He hit .473 over his NCAA Division I career, a record, and remarkably stole 65 bases in 66 attempts.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brew/jun03/145338.asp

 

Weeks is ranked the top college player in the country, a five-tool athlete with a collegiate batting average of .473, an NCAA Division I record, and 65 steals in 66 attempts. He has been praised for his speed, power, lightning-quick wrists and natural baseball instincts.

 

"We are very pleased to get a player of Rickie Weeks' ability," said Brewers Director of Scouting, Jack Zduriencik. "He is a pure hitter with tremendous speed and power, tools that will help him on his trip through our Minor League system and to the Major Leagues."

 

Although some teams think Weeks could be converted into an all-star centerfielder, the Brewers' scouting department thinks he should stay at second base.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickie_Weeks

 

Rickie Weeks and Prince Fielder at Spring Training, 2005Baseball America College Player of the Year - 2003

Dick Howser Trophy - 2003

Golden Spikes Award - 2003

Rotary Smith Award - 2003

 

 

A potential five-tool player, Weeks was considered a top prospect throughout college, winning the Dick Howser Trophy as the national collegiate player of the year, and excelled through the minor leagues. He has shown promise in three of the five tools: speed, power, and throwing arm.

 

In 2007, he had the lowest fielding percentage of all NL second basemen (.976), and the lowest zone rating among all major league second basemen, .737.

 

http://brewers.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20030912&content_id=523202&vkey=pr_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

 

In their rankings of the top 100 draft prospects, Baseball America ranked him first among college players as the best athlete, best five-tool talent and best pure hitter, and he ranked second as the best power hitter and fastest baserunner.

 

"Since Rickie is on the 40-man roster and possibly may play in the Arizona Fall League, we wanted to get him to stay in baseball shape with the big club and receive the instruction and experience at this level," said Melvin. "He has a very bright future and we believe that this opportunity will be invaluable for him in his development as a player."

 

http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewArticle.do?articleId=154

 

Weeks has the best tools and is the purest hitter in college baseball of all of the 2003 draftees. His hands are so quick that he generates amazing bat speed and can turn around any inside fastball. With back-to-back .495 and .493 seasons he became only the second repeat batting champion in NCAA Division I history. His career .469 average is the best Division I mark ever. Though his quality of competition is suspect, scouts think Weeks will only have to develop a little more pitch recognition to mash as a pro. Besides hitting for average, Weeks also has plus power and speed. He played at shortstop and in the outfield earlier in his career at Southern before he settled in at second base. He's still a little raw there, but he has more than enough arm strength and athleticism to play there in the majors.

 

http://www.minorleaguenews.com/baseball/features/articles2005/08/15/06.html

 

This automatically earns Mr. Weeks some clout in the farm system, and improved ranking from good FAB50 mojo, provided that he plays up to those lofty expectations.

 

 

In 2005 Rickie returned to the production trail. He has worked evenly between Milwaukee and Nashville. With the Sounds, he's had 12 home runs, 9 triples, and 14 doubles and 48 RBIs in a mighty .435 average from 203 at-bats. His Triple-A resume sports an envy-making .655 slugging percentage to date.

 

Weeks can be a slump-prone, streaky hitter who, when he catches his wave, rides it high and mighty. He has fast hands and great eyes that read and react to heat moving to the inside well, although scouting notes suggest that he needs more work on reading the strike zone better. Given his current .435 average, we think that he's already made the adjustment.

 

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/04/picking_apart_t_3.php

 

Weeks was on a lot of teams' draft boards as the No. 1 player in the nation, narrowly edging Young. In its scouting profile for Weeks before the draft, Baseball America stated:

 

Weeks has the best tools and is the purest hitter in college baseball. His hands are so quick that he generates amazing bat speed and can turn around any inside fastball.

[Godspeed]

^ I can't tell if there's a single word in that post that wasn't copy-and-pasted from another source.

From what I could read into your opinion, which wasn't much since you didn't actually write anything, you seem to think past success on a smaller scale should automatically translate into similar future success on the highest level. Yet this notion has been refuted above.

The MLB draft is no sure thing. The fact that Weeks has developed into a competent player while just scratching the surface of his potential means his selection was very defensible. Ignoring the past success (his OPS was #10 in the league last year for 2B) of a rising player while just focusing on current results (but not too current, because who would want to admit that he's been stellar post ASB) doesn't seem to be the wisest thing.

Contrary to what the naysayers keep posting while continuing to ignore the facts, Weeks' full story has yet to be written. Giving up on him could very well be something the Brewers would regret.

[Invader3K]

Yes, but the point is that the Brewers are past the point where they can have guys learning on the job at the big league level, and hoping that they turn into competent all around players. Weeks' chance is slipping away quickly. If he does not develop into an adequate defensive and offensive player by the end of this year, it will probably force the Brewers' hand into making some type of move.

[endaround]

Why? He's a cheap adequate player. Yes they could spend money and/or talent on improving, but considering they have to fix a rotation first I don't think its a high priority.

[Invader3K]

It depends what you define as "adequate" I guess. He doesn't hit for very good average or carry a high OBP, and his defense is quite shaky. It seems like some kind of upgrade should eventually be obtainable if he doesn't turn it around.

 

I do agree that the starting rotation will and should be priority #1 this off-season.

[Postseason2006]

The fact that Weeks has developed into a competent player while just scratching the surface of his potential

Competent? Like his bad defense costing us games? Or maybe his bonehead baserunning or lack of hustle?

Or how about his spectacular OBP leading off thie year? I guess I fail to see the great argument.

Again, you are right that baseball players are never a sure thing but if you did your homework, Rickie probably should have been the #1 pick that year. I remember reading how Tampa fans were upset that they did not select Weeks because of their OF glutton.

You also fail to understand that Weeks was one of the most highly regarded hitting prospects in years.

Sorry, but he has been a huge disappoinment no matter how you try to spin it.