How do we get the most from Rickie Weeks?

[futurebrewerfather]

Rickie looked great tonight (Monday), but he always does after coming off the DL or just back up from AAA. I'd like to see Weeks succeed, and I believe that he is better then the #'s he's put up so far in his short career. But at some point you have to start asking "Was he overrated, just a great college player, or is there something the Brewers could do to get the "real" Rickie Weeks to show up?

 

So it got me to thinking about what can we do to get Rickie to hit like this for an entire season, and I began to question where he hits in the lineup (this is not meant to be a "How stupid is Yost" thread, there are more then enough of them, or a "Who should be the leadoff hitter" thread, just bare with me for a moment). Yost really wants Weeks to be a lead-off hitter because he says that Weeks has the perfect tools for it (and we don't have too many other options).

 

But what if, maybe even SUB-consciously, Weeks just can't hit as a lead-off hitter? Braun is an excellent hitter, yet it seems for some reason he just can't hit clean up. It seems to psych him out. Maybe the same thing is going on with Weeks while hitting lead-off. I don't know how to get the stats of Weeks when he's hit somewhere else in the lineup, compared to when he hits lead-off (if someone else does, please post them), but just from my memory, it seemed like in the past Rickie would either come back from an injury and hit somewhere else in the lineup "to get the feel back" or would get dropped in the lineup until "he got the feel back", and during those times he'd rake. But once he "earned" his way back to lead-off, his numbers starting dropping again.

 

I think Rickie has serious talent, but I think at lead-off he's forced to worry about taking some pitches, looking for some walks, & just trying to get on base, instead of just looking to drive the ball with authority, which is his game.

 

I'd like to hear what others think. Am I onto something or am I reading to much into his struggles.

[dadofandrew]

He's an abover average 2B who still is a couple years away from his mythical peak. I wish we had problems like this all over the diamond.

[futurebrewerfather]

So you wish we had guys hitting .207 & slugging .353 all over the diamond?? I don't think we'd have the record we do if that was the case. Heck, JJ & Kendell are out slugging him. That being said I still like Rickie and think he is better then those #'s, we just have to find a way to get that talent out. But if this is the real Rickie...then we need to start looking for real options soon.

[Wesrob1]

I agree that his hitting is a comfort level issue. What I remember from the beginning of his career was that he was expected to eventually become our #3 hitter. I also remember a tv interview when he first became our leadoff man, where he admitted that he wasn't familiar with that role and that he was probably most comfortable hitting #3.

 

I think he's thinking too much at the plate when hitting leadoff. It is like he's kinda torn about what a leadoff man is supposed to do and what he wants to do. It must be frustrating having to see that your teammates are able to swing the bat freely, without having to worry about the added pressure of having to get on base that much. He knows he is just as able to hit for power and average(based on his comfort level with being moved down the lineup) as they are.

[RickieDROPSbombs]

Personally I think what we saw in 2006 when he batted .280 and wasnt hitting for as much power (I believe he had 8 homeruns through 95 games) is what he can do all the time. But he has to trust his hands because they are so quick and he has so much untapped power. It seemed like in that year, the year he was originally moved to leadoff, he really focused on contact and was hitting the ball to all fields. I'd like to see him kind of go back to this straigtegy because he has the power to make up for just trying to hit for contact. Also i believe Rickie had one cold streak before the wrist injury that plummeted his average to .280 because i think he was around .300 for most of the year. I dont think it matters where Rickie bats because when the guy is hot, he mashes with the best of him. But i would like to see what he can do in a run producing role.

[logan82]

I thought his numbers from last year hitting lead off were pretty good. Given his large split between BA and OBP, I still think he will be a good leadoff hitter.

[sveumrules]

if he is psyching himself out when hitting leadoff then what's the problem for his other three of four plate appearances each game? i'm definitely a big weeks fan. he has the tools to be the best hitter on this team. the problem is everybody puts it together at their own pace. and for every high pick that clicks instantly (braun) there's one that doesn't put it together until later in their career, or in some cases ever at all. i'll take a struggling weeks who is still in the top half of nl second basemen in ops. by the end of the year he might only be behind utley, uggla, phillips anyway.

[Dollarbill13]

So you wish we had guys hitting .207 & slugging .353 all over the diamond?? I don't think we'd have the record we do if that was the case. Heck, JJ & Kendell are out slugging him. That being said I still like Rickie and think he is better then those #'s, we just have to find a way to get that talent out. But if this is the real Rickie...then we need to start looking for real options soon.

Over his career, Weeks is a slightly above average 2B with a .754 OPS. And that is with a .243 average. This year, despite hitting only .216, his OPS is just a shade under .700. The way I look at it is that for Weeks, it is just a matter of having those extra singles fall in for him. If he can get his average this season to his career number, he'll be above average. And if he can improve it to the .260-.270 range... watch out. That is where the Rickey Henderson comparisons would start.

[RightFieldCoder]

If the case is really him being uncomfortable being the "leadoff" man who needs to take pitches, then I'd have him change his approach. I like batters who abuse the pitch count, but I'd rather he rip into those tasty fastballs if it meant he turned into a .300 hitter than the Mendoza line he has going. Even if he needs to lead off.

[Bucky Rules]

Of the guys on the roster, I think Rickie is the best leadoff hitter we have. And I don't think moving him in the order would do much of anything to help him. It wouldn't hurt him to get a little better luck than he's gotten so far this year. His BABIP is about 50 points lower than his career avg.

[JoeHova]

The thing about Rickie is that while his offense may be (slightly) above average for a 2B, his defense still leaves much to be desired. He may not be badly hurting the team, but he's not really helping it either yet.

 

Let's be honest, the Henderson, Aaron, Morgan, Sheffield comparisons were just way off base. He's an ok player with the upside to possibly have a 110-120 OPS+ with bad defense. However, there isn't a great chance of him reaching that upside very often, imo. He doesn't know what he's doing at the plate, which seems like it would leave him open to wilder swings than other guys. What I mean is, I feel he could have a peak 5 years of 111, 92, 119, 104, 87 or something like that, rather than 112, 115, 109, 117, 115 or whatever.

 

I would support moving him out of the leadoff spot ASAP, because I think it is having a deleterious effect on his approach. As odd as it is to say, I think he might take too many pitches. Leadoff is the only spot he's spent significant time in during his career though, so it's hard to get a feeling for whether he'd use a different approach farther down in the lineup.

[joepepsi]

Let's be honest, the Henderson, Aaron, Morgan, Sheffield comparisons were just way off base.

It's occurred to me this season the most comparable player to him seems to be Brady Anderson. After 4 seasons and 1081 at bats, Brady was 27 with a lifetime average of .219. But he had that same combination of speed, power, and walks. His 5th season he posted .271/.373/.449, hit 21 homers, stole 53 bases, and walked 98 times. That was the start of an excellent 9 year run. I keep Rickie is going to put up those numbers this year or next, then give it a decade or so of similar performance.

[TooLiveBrew]

we just have to find a way to get that talent out.

 

Just let him play. He's had horrid luck all season long. Last night was the first game I can remember where the line drives that he ripped actually didn't get hit right at fielders... and lo & behold, he had a huge game. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

The way I look at it is that for Weeks, it is just a matter of having those extra singles fall in for him. If he can get his average this season to his career number, he'll be above average. And if he can improve it to the .260-.270 range... watch out. That is where the Rickey Henderson comparisons would start.

 

Very well-said. I just don't think it's fair to say 'Well, looks like he won't go down as one of the greatest hitters ever' (meaning Aaron, Henderson, Morgan, etc.). First off, he's far too young to assume that we 'know' what we have yet. And secondly, it's just unrealistic in general to establish that kind of stratosphere as the expectations of a ballplayer.

 

One thing that I tend to forget about Rickie, too, is that not only does he get on base very well, but once he's there, he's the best base-stealing threat the Brewers have. Heck, he's arguably the best in terms of SB efficiency the franchise has ever had. He's an offensive dream-player in this era -- good power, good OBP, and elite base-stealing ability. The argument oftentimes comes down to OBP v. speed/SB, and Rickie provides both. Now about that defense...

[Bring Back the Stein]

If weeks got his average back up to .250 it would imply a hot streak that would really help the team in a period in which the collapse occurred last year.

[Baldkin]

Over the last 3 years:

Rickie as a leadoff man: .265/.373/.451/.824 in 680 AB's

Rickie elsewhere: 448 ABs 102 hits, 20 doubles, 2 triples, 9 hr (153 total bases)... 54bb

Leaves him with the line of: .227/.341/.310/.651 (ops) in 448 ABs

 

So, Rickie has been a gosh darned fine leadoff hitter, and terrible everywhere else in the lineup.

 

edit: Just noticed this was '05-07, doesn't include this year. But he's only hit leadoff this year.

[rousieboy]

Put him in a Giants jersey and get 2 pitchers in a Brewers jersey...that is how we get the most from him...

[JoeHova]

Put him in a Giants jersey and get 2 pitchers in a Brewers jersey...that is how we get the most from him...

 

 

which two pitchers, and why would the Giants do that?

[ILuvDaBush]

As TLB stated, it isn't a matter of his hits FALLING in as much as he's just rifling them at fielders. So many times, he'll pull one right at the 3B, who has enough time to double clutch and still throw him out. It's frustrating, but you just know eventually the law of averages will even out and he'll actually take off A-Ram's head. OH, HOW I WAIT!

[And That]

Put him in a Giants jersey and get 2 pitchers in a Brewers jersey...that is how we get the most from him...

which two pitchers, and why would the Giants do that?

And who are we replacing him with at second base? Counsell can't play every day and Dillon can't play second base. Trade Weeks to free up room for Iribarren?

 

[Wesrob1]

Any one hear if the Brewers are currently in contract extension negotiations with Weeks right now? I hope they sign him now before he starts blowin up!

[TheCrew07]

Maybe he just needs some Jungle Karma... lets get him on Rome and then see what he does.

[twobrewers]

Trade Weeks to free up room for Iribarren?

I've always been concerned with the passive attitude the Brewers seem to have regarding our 2B position. Rickie Weeks has always seemed like a player likely to leave Milwaukee before he realizes his talent.

 

The problem is, we don't have any really good 2B in the wings.

 

(I really hope they move Taylor Green to 2B next year)

[And That]

(I really hope they move Taylor Green to 2B next year)

Taylor Green is a second baseman by trade and a good one at that. He'll be moved back to second if and when Gamel figures out third. Even if Gamel doesn't stick at the hot corner, Green is a very viable 2B option, albeit two years away.

 

[Wesrob1]

I'd love to see Weeks play some winter ball this offseason to get into some kind of rhythm for next season, both offensively and defensively. Practice makes perfect.

[Ennder]

Play him every day or play him against lefties and against mid tier righties. Those are the two real options. Weeks is the best 2B on our team without a doubt in my mind, there is no way Counsell or Durham are better long term. Durham is worse defensively and about the same offensively and Counsell is a good bit behind Weeks offensively and better defensively.

 

I could see Durham being better against top end righties though and he probably deserves to play against those at this point.

 

It is kinda funny that this is brought up from an offensive standpoint. Since May 17th he is hitting .253/.341/.414/.755 which is pretty in line with expectations so offensively there is no reason to be benching him. I can see doing it for the bad baserunning and defense but the offense is what is generally quoted.