The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[splitterpfj]

I agree that the Brewers shouldn't trade more than one of their top 5 guys in this deal. But it might be the price you would have to pay for Sabathia. Should the Brewers do that?

In my opinion, no, absolutely not. There's no way the Brewers will pay Sabathia what he wants to stay here next year, so dealing two elite prospects to get him makes no sense to me at all.

 

I don't see Gamel, the Brewers need the lefty bat, and the Indians at least have other options.

 

I don't see Jeffress, because the Brewers are very thin on arms who may help the big team over the next 1-2 seasons.

 

It could be Escobar, but I would imagine he's the last of the remaining three the Brewers would want to part with, so the additional players might be of lower value if he was the guy.

 

I think La Porta or Salome would end up being the centerpiece of the deal, and I don't think Cleveland would hesitate to add either guy, I honestly think the sticking point would be who goes with this player.

 

Of course, I could be completely off-base on how either team values these guys, but I think the Brewers would give them LaPorta or Salome and two other prospects, and I think there's enough remaining talent for Cleveland to find two guys they like enough to do it.

 

If Sabathia was signed beyond this season, it'd be a different story, but he's not, and of course both teams know this. Maybe Cleveland wants two draft picks, maybe it's the last thing they want....who knows?

[nate82]

If Sabathia was signed beyond this season, it'd be a different story, but he's not, and of course both teams know this. Maybe Cleveland wants two draft picks, maybe it's the last thing they want....who knows?

Cleveland is trying one last time to see if they can resign Sabathia. If they are not able to resign him they will be looking at a trade that would land them the 2 comp picks they would receive at the end of the year if they would just keep him. It will all depend on what the Indians needs are and if a LaPorta or a Salome will be center pieces for them. I believe LaPorta is more of a center piece than Salome is. But Salome is a catcher and catchers are always in demand like pitchers. LaPorta is more of a fit if the Indians believe Hafner can't return to what he was two years ago. To me the Brewers are more compatible with the Indians in terms of trading partners. Nelson could also be put into the deal and could start at 1B for the Indians almost right away. A LaPorta, Nelson, and Villanueva deal the more I think about it would be a great starting point for a Sabathia and a bullpen arm. The Brewers might have to throw in Hall or Hardy though not sure on that since I believe Iribarren or Crabe could fit those spots also.

 

[SeriesFinale]

If the Indians sign him, I'm OK with that. If he goes to an AL team, I'm OK with that (esp. the Rays). I mainly don't want him going to the Cubs or Cards--the Cards because of the WC, obviously, and the Cubs because it makes them much harder to beat in the playoffs.

[Invader3K]

Heard Haudricourt on the radio this afternoon, and he said the negotiations between Sabathia and Cleveland were not going anywhere, so he could seriously be available as soon as next week.

[Hate those Rodents]

Sign me up for our best offer being Salome, Gillepsie, and Villenueva or Periard. They get a top five prospect, an OF prospect likely good enough to be a starter or at least a good fourth, and a pitcher that's a likely starter for them in two years. That should be enough, and these are guys we can afford to ship out given our depth at these positions.

[ELCABALLO45]

Im getting way to excited about this, I really don't want to be disapointed.

[dadofandrew]

Those 3, even with Carlos V, won't be the best offer, though it would be a starting point. Several teams could not beat that...but one could, and will.

[splitterpfj]

Gammons was just on BBTN:

 

The Brewers have told him they will not give up two of the following - LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Brantley

 

BUT

 

He says "several" teams are telling him the Brewers might make Hardy or Weeks available, and would then call Escobar up to replace whoever goes.

 

He says that the Brewers will trade for "One, if not two" starting pitchers.

[Hate those Rodents]

Hardy sure is having a game today. Hypothetically, would Hardy straight up be the best offer for a rental even of the stature of Sabathia? I am assuming a prospect swap might be added from both sides...

[badgerpat]

The Brewers ownership needs to decide what type of organization they are going to be and commit to it. What are the Brewers a small market team that builds with prospects or a big spending club that throws prospects and money (can anyone say Yankees) to get the well established player? I know the owner grew up as a Yankee fan and I don't have a problem with that. If he wants to run it like the Yankees then he needs to put up the money. I don't like the idea of giving up top prospects for a player that is going to be gone after the season. If the ownership wants to make the trade then ownership should commit to signing both CC and Sheets at the end of the season. If they are not ready to commit that kind of money then they should not make that kind of trade.

 

Die hard Brewer fans out there tell me this are you willing to mortgage the longterm success of the team for a chance to just make the playoffs? Trading for CC is going to limit the off season options. And don't even talk to me about draft picks. Draft picks take at least 3 years to develop if not more and that is if they pan out. That is way to many ifs for me to count on draft picks. Remember this is not like football or basketball where picks can contibute quickly.

 

While we are at it tell me honestly if you think the Brewers are going to be able to sign Prince in the near future. If not who is going to replace him if you trade LaPorta or Gamel? After Sheets and CC leave after the season who do the Brewers trade to get pitching? I am not interested in any move that just gets us to the playoffs for one year and then not again for another 10 or 26 years. If the team makes it to the playoffs I want them to have a chance to when the series and be the top team the year after. Where are the rockies this season?

 

It is real easy are the Brewers small market or big money? If the team makes the trade then ownership needs to spend the money. And don't let them fool you, they are making money right now. Games are sold out and fans are buying merchandise like crazy. There is nothing wrong with being a small market team if you are smart about it. How many world series do the Marlins have in the last 5 years? How many do the Yankees have?

[nate82]

Gammons was just on BBTN:

 

The Brewers have told him they will not give up two of the following - LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, Salome, Brantley

 

BUT

 

He says "several" teams are telling him the Brewers might make Hardy or Weeks available, and would then call Escobar up to replace whoever goes.

 

He says that the Brewers will trade for "One, if not two" starting pitchers.

The two starting pitchers makes sense since the Padres love Crabbe and Gwynn I could see both being traded for Wolf or Maddux. So our suspicions were correct that they wouldn't trade two players from the AA team which is what we just talked about in the last page. I think a LaPorta, Weeks/Hardy for Sabathia would be a great deal. The Indians would probably want Weeks more than Hardy especially after losing Phillips.

 

I'm guessing that a LaPorta, Weeks/Hardy would be the starting point for the Indians probably ending with Villanueva or even possibly Bush (I doubt it though) for Sabathia. I believe Bedard could be had for less than Sabathia with us only giving up two players like a Weeks/Hardy and Villanueva for Bedard.

 

Would be nice to have a rotation of 1) Sheets 2) Sabathia/Bedard 3)Maddux/Wolf 4) Parra 5) Suppan. Would be crazy to have 3 lefties in the rotation though. I'm not sure how that would work out though.

 

[colbyjack]

Thanks splitter, that's an interesting tidbit from Gammons.

 

The Indians would be an interesting trading partner for the Brewers, since they had an incredible number of offensive players that they eventually ended up trading away in the 90s during their impressive run. From Sean Casey to Brian Giles, they had players that were viewed as blocked at the big-league level given the presences of players like Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome and arguably one of the best starting lineups in the past 10-20 years, if not ever.

 

And the Brewers are a good trading partner with the Indians. They have some needs at the corner OF spots, 1B and a spot up the middle of their IF, and they have good starting pitching depth that may make them more willing to go for a package surrounded by a few of the Brewers' big bats. One of Gamel or LaPorta plus Luis Pena and something else for Sabathia and possibly a nugget included makes a lot of sense, as long as you're prepared to see the Brewers deal such a package for a potential 2-3 month rental.

[nate82]

The Brewers ownership needs to decide what type of organization they are going to be and commit to it. What are the Brewers a small market team that builds with prospects or a big spending club that throws prospects and money (can anyone say Yankees) to get the well established player? I know the owner grew up as a Yankee fan and I don't have a problem with that. If he wants to run it like the Yankees then he needs to put up the money. I don't like the idea of giving up top prospects for a player that is going to be gone after the season. If the ownership wants to make the trade then ownership should commit to signing both CC and Sheets at the end of the season. If they are not ready to commit that kind of money then they should not make that kind of trade.

First thing the Brewers are not a small market team. They are a mid market team. Stop with the small market [removed] its not true that is just the woah is me crowd speaking. The Brewers are in fact a mid market team they are not the Yankees, Cubs, or Red Sox. The Brewers can compete with the Indians, Twins (another mid market team), and the Cardinals for players. Theres not that many small market teams any more in the MLB, NFL, NBA, or NHL. Small market teams currently in the MLB are the Marlins and the Nationals both are coming around to being mid market teams.

 

If you want to see proof why the Brewers are no longer a small market team look at the sales the team made the last couple of years. I believe they have been ranked in the top 10. There was an article floating around at the Brewers web site I believe it was not to long ago about this.

 

Secondly you don't have to sign both Sheets and CC for the trade to be successful. Both will be type A free agents and will probably go to teams that have good records like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, or the Cubs/White Sox. We would get 2 extra first round picks plus comp picks which would be like losing 4 players. With the way we have drafted having those 2 extra first round picks would help out a lot for the future.

 

 

EDIT: Abbreviating for swears is not allowed. -PF

 

[Hate those Rodents]

Why have the last few posts talking about LaPorta being sent out when Gammons just listed five AA studs that are not available?

[sbrylski]

Why have the last few posts talking about LaPorta being sent out when Gammons just listed five AA studs that are not available?

Unfortunately, he said we won't give up two on that prospect list.

 

[igor67]

THe quote was will not give up two of the following, which if quoted correctly means that they might deal one of those guys in the right package.

[nate82]

Why have the last few posts talking about LaPorta being sent out when Gammons just listed five AA studs that are not available?

What splitterpfj posted was that the Brewers wouldn't give up two of the listed five. Which makes 100% sense you don't really want to give up two stud prospects just for a three month rental player. With that being said it will be a A list player +, other minor league prospects not on the A list. The A list is the 5 named players. So a LaPorta, Nelson, and Villanueva would be a possibility but not a Gamel and LaPorta or any combination of the players on the A list.

 

[danzig6767]

I may be in the minority, but i don't think i'd give up any of Laporta/Gamel/Escobar to get Sabathia for 10-12 starts. I'd rather see what other pitchers are available because six years of any of those three isn't worth a rental that might not even get us to the playoffs.

 

It would be very painful to see us give up some great package for Sabathia, then miss the playoffs while say Laporta or Gamel becomes some big time stud for the Indians.

[Hate those Rodents]

My bad. Salome is the obvious one I'd trade of the five. Brantley would be next and I would not deal the other three.

[Tedaldtada]

Randy Johnson was traded to the Astros at the deadline in 1999 i think. The deal was Johnson for John Halama, Carlos Guillen, and Freddy Garcia.

 

What's a comparable deal involving Brewer prospects?

[wibadgers23]

My bad. Salome is the obvious one I'd trade of the five. Brantley would be next and I would not deal the other three.

Same here. Maybe we could do a Weeks or Hardy/Salome deal to get Sabathia. Throw in some low-level prospects if need be.

[jjfanec]

What is Weeks value in a trade right now? I know Brewers fans are mostly down on him, but I was wondering if he had much value? I was thinking about the Carlos Lee trade in which the Brewers got Mench, Cordero, and Nix none of whom were top end players in fact Cordero was really struggling. The Brewers even had to give up Nelson Cruz. I know Lee didnt have the same value as CC but it is an interesting comparison if you look more at major league players instead of all prospects considering Cleveland is a team expecting to contend again next year.

[Dmiles23]

Gammons was just on BBTN:

 

He says that the Brewers will trade for "One, if not two" starting pitchers.

There's a bit on mlbtraderumors.com that comes from Ken Rosenthal saying the Brewers have inquired about Vicente Padilla. I liked the idea until I saw his salary which is $11M this season, $12M next, and a $12M option for 2010. That isn't horrible, but I'm still holding out hope the Brewers can re-sign Sheets or Sabathia, if they do acquire him.

 

[Weirdos19]

I dont know about giving up Weeks or Hardy right now. We are scoring plenty of runs and both are playing well defensively right now.

 

My offer would be LaPorta, Villy, and a young A level arm.

 

Even if CC and Sheets were to walk after the season, we'd have picks coming from losing them, Cameron, Mota, and Gagne. That seems like 7 or 8 picks in the top 70 next year too. And the rotation could be Gallardo, Parra, Suppan, McClung, and Bush. I would assume DM would add to that rotation.

[dadofandrew]

Cameron has an option, so I doubt they'll get anything for him. They'd have to offer Gagne arby, for $8M or more, so that's doubtful as of this second, to say the least. Mota does not seem like a A level FA, as he struggled mightily last year, and seems to have hit a wall.