The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[danzig6767]

KC is supposedly shopping him. Of course this is coming from the same baseball "minds" that swore Sheets was available in the off season.

If you look at the moves KC has made the last year or two, they seem to be trying to win sooner than later. My guess is if if they even considered trading Greinke, it wouldn't be for prospects, but would instead want something done with say a Fielder or Hart involved.

 

[TheCrew07]

The last question that Sparky asked him was whether or not there is anyone in the farm system that is "untouchable". Melvin without mentioning names, said, yes there are a few untouchables. He felt that if he were to go after a "big" name, with only two months left on his contract, he wouldn't trade one of his untouchables that he controls for seven years for just 10 starts down the stretch. He said, he would do a "quantity" trade instead of one premiere prospect for a big name, possibly like C.C. Sabathia

I read that as we aren't trading our premium prospects for a rental, but he'd unload 3 2nd tier players for one, probably similar to the Linebrink deal. This is a relief to me, as I couldn't see trading 7 years of multiple possible impact players for 3 months of anyone. I'm glad Doug thinks the obvious players in LaPorta and Gamel are untouchable. I don't know where people are coming up with if not Sabathia then Bedard? A rental is a rental and Melvin was talking directly to the idea of picking up rental players... again I'm glad he feels the same way I do that if you're trading premium prospects you want control of the player for whom you're trading for more than just 2-3 months.

 

If you're going after Greinke, why wouldn't you use Fielder and pickup Greinke + quality prospect? Same Same for Cain... I really like Prince, especially his offensive production, but he's obviously the player with the most value who's the least likely to sign a deal buying out a year of free agency. While you won't replace the production in his bat, you can get somewhat close and upgrade other areas of need, like a starting pitcher. Whomever would play first would just have to be able to consistently dig a ball out of the dirt and the entire infield defense would improve. The net result of a Fielder trade should be greater than his Offensive value (his defense has no value in my opinion), and that sort of deal makes quite a bit of sense to me.

[splitterpfj]

I can't see KC wanting to deal for Prince, for the same reason that Milwaukee may be willing to deal him - Scott Boras will not let Prince sign a long-term deal in KC. I'd bet the Royals would rather get Hart, but I don't think the Brewers will be offering that. That team needs to get bats, I could envision them dealing Greinke for some of the Huntsville guys.

 

As for Prince, that's likely to be a bigger market - my first thought is the Angels. The Angels have pitching depth, and they need a left-handed power hitter. I could see that organization dealing for Prince, and worrying about Boras later.

[twobrewers]

6 non top prospects? No.

For the record, there is a very good chance at this time next year Taylor Green will be considered a very legitimate prospect.

 

His numbers in A+ are fantastic.

[Brian the Automator]

6 non top prospects? No.

Look what was traded for Johan Santana and Dan Haren ... Dunno, I think the days of the sellers gouging the buyers are ending.

 

[Invader3K]

The Brewers are probably in a nice position where they have enough good but expendable type talent in their minors that a "quantity for quality" type trade could make a lot of sense and be quite do-able.

[JohnBriggs12]

"His numbers in A+ are fantastic".

 

Fantastic is a bit of an overstatement and A+ is still quite a long way away from the major leagues.

 

Look it's been 26 years since the Brewers have played a postseason game. I think there's enough organizational depth to give up at least one of the higher level top prospects to get a premier pitcher who can not only virtually assure a postseason but also give you a shot at the ultimate goal.

[TheCrew07]

JohnBriggs12 wrote

Look it's been 26 years since the Brewers have played a postseason game. I think there's enough organizational depth to give up at least one of the higher level top prospects to get a premier pitcher who can not only virtually assure a postseason but also give you a shot at the ultimate goal.

Your opinions about Taylor Green aside as he isn't as far away as you think, unless he gets traded.

 

What does 26 years have to do with anything? I keep seeing you posting all over the place that the player you want to aquire "virtually assures" a post season berth. How does one player assure anything? All it takes is one bad break and you're right back where you started. This team doesn't have the depth to be considered 1 player away... they are more realistically 2 or 3 players away from being assured anything. I have a problem with the whole "assured" notion anyway since the games are not played on paper, not played with projections or simulations, but played by real human beings where anything can happen... you mean like how Moss assured the Patriots that they were going to win the SuperBowl?

[Invader3K]

Crew07, you are right that acquiring one player assures nothing. However, barring key injuries, obtaining CC Sabathia or a similar caliber pitcher would make their chances of making the playoffs even better. That is the goal this time of year when considering trades, when the Brewers are in the current position they are.

[EsoxLazer]

Sorry that I don't have much to add to the conversation but I found this article pretty funny:

 

What CC would look like in a Brewers uniform

[GB12]

Sorry that I don't have much to add to the conversation but I found this article pretty funny:

 

What CC would look like in a Brewers uniform

 

You know, CC is undefeated at Miller Park while pitching for the "home" team...

[Postseason2006]

And he was dealing last night. The Brewers need to make a move soon if they want to catch the Cubs.

[Invader3K]

Only 4.5 games out of first place now. If this trend continues, Brewers will and should definitely be looking to add a big piece.

[splitterpfj]

The Brewers are in great shape, one out of the wildcard, 4.5 out of the division lead, with half a season left to play. There's no reason not to go for it!

 

I suspect a lot of the teams they want to deal with are still holding out hope that they're in the race themselves, I suspect it'll be at least two weeks before a deal happens, but I'm certain that something will get done. It wouldn't shock me if they dealt for both a starter and a reliever, with as shaky as Mota and Riske have been, there may be room for more than one new face.

[LouisEly]

Look what was traded for Johan Santana and Dan Haren ... Dunno, I think the days of the sellers gouging the buyers are ending.

 

And Richie Sexson (I know, not a pitcher, but still basically a six-for-one deal). You're right - teams are no longer giving up top prospects for rentals. A combination of Gillespie, Pena (Cleveland desperately needs a closer - he would carry a lot of value with them), Cain, Errecart, and Hammond could net a lot.

Speaking of CC, this whole thing would be a moot point had the Brewers made a different decision 10 years ago:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/alltime/draft?year=1998

 

Man... I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[trwi7]

Whoooooo J.M. Gold!

[brewmann04]

Any rumours what players might be moved to get CC

[bklynbrewcrew]

The only way I would make a deal for Sabathia is if we dont have to include Gamel, LaPorta or Jeffress. In my mind those three guys are completely untradeable. If Cleveland insists on any of them I wouldnt do it. To trade a minimum of six years of potential all star caliber talents for 2 months of Sabathia makes no sense to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

The only way I would make a deal for Sabathia is if we dont have to include Gamel, LaPorta or Jeffress. In my mind those three guys are completely untradeable. If Cleveland insists on any of them I wouldnt do it. To trade a minimum of six years of potential all star caliber talents for 2 months of Sabathia makes no sense to me.

 

What's untradeable about LaPorta? He's a righthanded power hitting corner OF in an organization that has Braun (signed through 2014) and Hart (under Brewer control through 2011).

 

As for Jeffress, I have 2 names: Jose Capellan and Nick Neugebauer. Didn't those guys dominate low level minor leaguers by throwing close to 100 mph? He's so far from a sure thing it isn't funny. That's if he stays healthy.

 

Now if you'd say "we don't have to include Gamel and Escobar", I might agree with you. Gamel is a big lefthanded stick and Brewers don't have many of them, and Escobar could be special at a prime position.

[Klements Bratwurst]

What's untradeable about LaPorta?

On the WSSP home page there is an audio link on there in their Top Stories section regarding an interview that someone did with Gord Ash. I only caught the end of Sparky talking about it that it is a good "listen" and I think he said that Ash made reference to the fact that LaPorta might not be on that "untradeable" list.

 

I can't download the file at work, can anyone summarize this? Very curious as to what Gord had to say about the possibility of adding some arms soon to the club both in the pen and the rotation and what pieces might be made available to do so.

[fondybrewfan]

The only way I would make a deal for Sabathia is if we dont have to include Gamel, LaPorta or Jeffress. In my mind those three guys are completely untradeable. If Cleveland insists on any of them I wouldnt do it. To trade a minimum of six years of potential all star caliber talents for 2 months of Sabathia makes no sense to me.

What's untradeable about LaPorta? He's a righthanded power hitting corner OF in an organization that has Braun (signed through 2014) and Hart (under Brewer control through 2011).

 

As for Jeffress, I have 2 names: Jose Capellan and Nick Neugebauer. Didn't those guys dominate low level minor leaguers by throwing close to 100 mph? He's so far from a sure thing it isn't funny. That's if he stays healthy.

 

Now if you'd say "we don't have to include Gamel and Escobar", I might agree with you. Gamel is a big lefthanded stick and Brewers don't have many of them, and Escobar could be special at a prime position.

There are also plenty of guys who threw that hard who turned out as well. Sure he is no sure thing, no minor leaguer is, but he our best pitching talent in the entire system and it really isn't all that close. I would not even think about trading Jeffress. We have much more positional player talent than pitching talent. Perhaps we can spare either Gamel or La Porta but I don't think we can take the chance of trading Jeffress and then he actually develops into a #1-2 type pitcher. He has been unhittable at times this year, you just don't trade a talent like that for a 2 month rental of any player. If Jeffress needed to be included in the deal IMO it would have to be in a trade for a star player that would be under Brewer control for at least 2 years, not 2 months

 

 

[And That]

As for Jeffress, I have 2 names: Jose Capellan and Nick Neugebauer. Didn't those guys dominate low level minor leaguers by throwing close to 100 mph? He's so far from a sure thing it isn't funny. That's if he stays healthy.

Past history doesn't necessarily dictate a future result. You have to keep trying with these young power arms... you hit on one of them, and you're set for a long time at the top of the rotation. I'm not sure the comparison works between those two and Jeffress anyway... Capellan lost his velocity and Neugebauer had more than 330 IP with big control problems after his third season with the organization. Jeffress still has his velocity and will have logged around 230 IP by the end of the year, with many fewer control issues than Neugie.

 

And in a more practical sense, Jeffress is not at his maximum trade value right now, just 47.2 innings into a season shortened by a suspension.

[rotoherb]

Here's an interesting tidbit from the Baseball America prospects blog:

 

"Prospect Of The Day

Matt LaPorta has his usual good game, going 2-for-5 at Carolina, but the Huntsville (Brewers) right fielder couldn't match the performance of teammate Mat Gamel. The third baseman went a perfect 5-for-5, scoring two runs and hitting his 27th double. There were approximately a dozen scouts in attendance throughout the course of this series, nearly eight more than I've seen at a game at Carolina all season. Part of that is because the draft is over, giving the area scouts an opportunity to do more pro coverage, but with a month to go before the trading deadline, teams were also in town to check out LaPorta and Gamel. With Prince Fielder at first base, Ryan Braun in left field and Gamel still struggling defensively at third base (he made his 22nd error yesterday and struggled throghout the series with his throws and fielding actions), it's unclear how both Gamel and LaPorta will fit into the Brewers' future plans. "

 

There are obviously a lot of guys on Huntsville who could have needed scouting from other teams, not just LaPorta and Gamel, but it certainly does appear that Melvin is getting some teams interested in making a trade.

[wallus]

What's untradeable about LaPorta? He's a righthanded power hitting corner OF in an organization that has Braun (signed through 2014) and Hart (under Brewer control through 2011).

Yes but we need three outfielders and we have an option on one of the ones we have now for next year. All we would have to do is move Corey to center where most agree he could play and then put LaPorta in one of the other spots. It would be nice to use the Cameron savings on Ben.

[fondybrewfan]

Doesn't it seem fairly logical to everyone that once Cameron's time is done in Milwaukee that Hart would be moved to center, Gamel to right, and LaPorta to 1st? It just seems to me that that aligment, while most likely below average defensively, would give us the biggest bang for our buck. Not to mention a Fielder trade that could possibly get us a 3rd basemen and starting pitching help. If Salome pans out just add some more fire power to the lineup. If that scenario were to play out, it would be entirely possible that our entire lineup was drafted by the Brewers (Perhaps 3rd base would be the only possible position not to be drafted by Crew) and at least 2 of our SP as well (Parra & Gallardo) with Jeffress possibly being a 3rd 2 years from now.