The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[tigerbrew]

I wouldn't trade Prince, LaPorta or Gamel for a 3 month rental of CC.

[Badger inohiovalley]

Longtime lerker, first time poster.

 

I just don't see how trading Fielder for CC would get the playoffs this year. I don't mind the idea of trading Fielder. But if he leaves this offense, there is an enormous hole behind Braun. I wouldn't count on Gamel or LaPorta filling that hole in a playoff run. CC might mean more wins than Bush, but not if there aren't any runs coming in.

 

I'd rather hold the Fielder chip for something bigger. Lincicum has been mentioned in this thread. That is more like it.

 

I don't like the idea of trading LaPorta and Gamel either. I see them as replacements for Hall and Fielder in the near future. Gotta re-sign Sheets. Trade Fielder this off-season for an established left handed bat, and a pitcher or two. Go with Sheets, Yo, Parra and Suppan, along with something you might get for Fielder.

[bbrauch2000]

I dont really have a problem trading Gamel in a package for CC. I see him as being blocked in the near and long term in the corner outfield spots and have doubts if his defense will ever be to the level it needs to be to hold down an infield spot. We'd get the comp picks for CC after the season and a real shot at making a run this year. Beyond that, Sheets and CC in the front of the rotation would make us tough to knock out if we did make it to the playoffs.

[JoeHova]

I dont really have a problem trading Gamel in a package for CC. I see him as being blocked in the near and long term in the corner outfield spots and have doubts if his defense will ever be to the level it needs to be to hold down an infield spot. We'd get the comp picks for CC after the season and a real shot at making a run this year. Beyond that, Sheets and CC in the front of the rotation would make us tough to knock out if we did make it to the playoffs.

 

 

except that last year the Indians had Sabathia and Carmona and they both got dominated in the LCS. Getting Sabathia is no promise of anything. He could do great, he could do poorly. Which is why I favor a more long-term plan, with more than one shot at a post-season berth.

[PrimeTime955]

Fielder for Sabathia makes absolutely no sense. Trading for Sabathia means that the Brewers are going for a championship this season. If your going for a championship this season, you don't trade away your only left handed bat and one of the best sluggers in the league. Who is going to play first base? Brad Nelson? LaPorta and Gamel aren't ready to make that big of an impact this season.

 

Now If you want to trade Fielder in the off season I have no problems with that. This deal just makes no sense to me.

[JohnBriggs12]

As good as LaPorta is, he is redundant. He's a righthanded corner OF on a team with one under contract through 2014 and another under Brewer control for 3 more seasons. That plus the Brewers also have another good prospect in Cole Gillespie and just drafted Lawrie who is a catcher in name but a corner OF potentially.

 

Gamel is indespensible for one simple reason. He's a lefthanded hitter and the only premier one (Nelson nothwithstanding) other than maybe Taylor Green in the system. If Fielder ever gets dealt, you need to replace him not with another righthanded stick but with a lefthanded bat. Gamel fits that bill. In 2-3 years, it would not shock me to see Gamel at first and Green at 3rd as the two lefthanded hitters in the Brewer lineup.

 

I'd also consider Salome as expendable because LuCroy is coming on fast plus the aforementioned Lawrie.

 

So the two guys I wouldn't deal for Sabathia are Gamel and Escobar. Escobar to me has a higher ceiling than Hardy. I'd give Cleveland the choice of any other player in the system, then after they select one (presumably LaPorta), I'd want to be able to protect another, then let then make their second selection. I'd also throw in Bush because Cleveland will need a pitcher back and Bush will command $3-4 million in arby next year, which to me is money that could be used elsewhere.

 

Having a rotation that inlcludes Sheets and Sabathia, not only makes playoffs likely, it makes World Series well within reach. Next year can wait. If this opportunity presents itself, you have to go for it.

[GoudaBrew]

The more I think about the Fielder situation, the more I want to him to be a Brewer through at least 2009. Like others have said, he's our only lefty bat (now and probably in the future until Gamel is ready). Who knows, a long term deal could still happen with Prince, and if it doesn't before the 2010 season, we can trade him the winter before that season and still get good value.

 

Could we put a package together that includes LaPorta, a pitching prospect (other than Jeffress), and another prospect (other than Gamel; no idea who, you all will need to help me with that) that could net us a younger pitcher who is signed through 2009 or later (other than Bedard, he is souring on me)? Seattle needs a 1B and I'm sure they'd love Prince, but would a LaPorta package be enough to net King Felix? What other pitchers could we target besides CC and Bedard? Anyone want to take a chance on Rich Harden?

 

By the way, I've seen a website mentioned in the past that shows players contract situations. Anybody have this site? It would make targeting guys signed through '09 and above easier to find. Thanks...

[Oldcity]

Lincecum or Felix would be the two I'd like the most, but they're unattainable. I think the guy I'd like most is Greinke. I think they could probably build a package around LaPorta for him, or trade Prince for Greinke in the offseason and probably get more back from KC.

[giffted1]

Matt Cain is a guy who I think could be acquired with a LaPorta package. He's young, he's good, and he'd be a lot easier to get than Lincecum.

[JoeHova]

I'd also consider Salome as expendable because LuCroy is coming on fast plus the aforementioned Lawrie.

 

 

I disagree. Trading Angel would be foolhardy, imo. His value around the league is not enough to be the centerpiece of a deal and using him in a package would be a horrible move, one that could really set the franchise back if Lucroy doesn't pan out. I personally hope they hold on to all their catching prospects at least until one of them has proven to be a ML starter.

[JonnyLungs]

For all the talk of the people that say we should keep Gamel over LaPorta (with very good reasons), is it possible that the Indians would demand our package revolve around Gamel and not LaPorta for all the reasons we are saying we shouldn't trade Mat over Matt?

 

That said, I'd probably be willing to send one, but not the other. Gamel, Bill Hall, and Zach Braddock?

[jjfanec]

I think LaPorta is more valuable than people understand. I dont think we should trade either Mat or Matt for a rental that is just my opinion. However, one thing to note is yes both Gamel and LaPorta are power hitters but LaPorta is on another level in the power department. LaPorta is hitting 1 HR every 13.6 AB, whereas Gamel is hitting 1 HR every 20 AB. That is over 10 more HR per year. That is not to take anything Gamel, who hits for better average, but LaPorta can straight up mash. Those two guys should only be traded for a guy who will be here for a couple years not a guy who will be here 2 or 3 months. I want to get to the Series as bad as the next guy but those two are guys I wouldn't trade. For all of those who say we should trade LaPorta because we have other guys like Gillespie, LaPorta is a potential all-star and Gillespie doesn't really seem like he is. It is not just having guys who play the same position but guys who hit where he hits. LaPorta is a slugger through and through and he keeps a nice average and OBP to go along with it.

I guess I am just not willing to trade a potential Braun or Fielder for Sabbithia for three months. The only way I would trade either of those two is for a pitcher whom we could control for a couple years. But i am of the opinion of trading Prince this off-season which would allow both LaPorta and Gamel to play even if Gamel cant stick at 3rd

[Hate those Rodents]

Isn't it somewhat rare to trade a top two prospect even straight up for a rental like Sabathia? It seems rather foolish to me too, at least as we sit here on 6/24.

[jjfanec]

I don't think anyone thinks we would have to trade both of them. It is more who to trade if either of them since Cleveland will likely ask for one of the two. A quick clarifying point on my last response is while the positions LaPorta plays are ones we can fill a power bat like his is not. That is a much more concise version of what I said above.

[And That]

I'm having a flashback to when right after Gallardo was injured, there were a number of people calling for a quick trade for a replacement for him. What this thread demonstrates to me is that a long, well thought out process about how (and if it is necessary) to replace Gallardo is indeed the best course of action.

[Klements Bratwurst]

Timestamp- Last night on WSSP 1250AM, Doug Melvin was on the post game show with Sparky and Tim at 9:40PM (after the Brewers 4-3 win against the Braves).

 

Sparky and Tim talked with Melvin regarding whether or not he is working on any major trades or anything. He said he is making tons of calls, but most teams are not quite ready yet to throw in the towel. Basically said he is laying the groundwork, and some teams are close, but not quite ready to deal. Doug mentioned that he is looking for pitching specifically (old news) and what he would like to add is up to a #2 or #3 type pitcher to the rotation. He might also look for some bullpen help. Sparky asked Melvin if he was going to make a trade, and Melvin said, "Look at my track record. I make a trade every year."

 

The last question that Sparky asked him was whether or not there is anyone in the farm system that is "untouchable". Melvin without mentioning names, said, yes there are a few untouchables. He felt that if he were to go after a "big" name, with only two months left on his contract, he wouldn't trade one of his untouchables that he controls for seven years for just 10 starts down the stretch. He said, he would do a "quantity" trade instead of one premiere prospect for a big name, possibly like C.C. Sabathia.

 

Oh and of course, Ben Sheets is not going to be traded- (news event of the year).

[jjfanec]

Timestamp- Last night on WSSP 1250AM, Doug Melvin was on the post game show with Sparky and Tim at 9:40PM (after the Brewers 4-3 win against the Braves).

 

Sparky and Tim talked with Melvin regarding whether or not he is working on any major trades or anything. He said he is making tons of calls, but most teams are not quite ready yet to throw in the towel. Basically said he is laying the groundwork, and some teams are close, but not quite ready to deal. Doug mentioned that he is looking for pitching specifically (old news) and what he would like to add is up to a #2 or #3 type pitcher to the rotation. He might also look for some bullpen help. Sparky asked Melvin if he was going to make a trade, and Melvin said, "Look at my track record. I make a trade every year."

 

The last question that Sparky asked him was whether or not there is anyone in the farm system that is "untouchable". Melvin without mentioning names, said, yes there are a few untouchables. He felt that if he were to go after a "big" name, with only two months left on his contract, he wouldn't trade one of his untouchables that he controls for seven years for just 10 starts down the stretch. He said, he would do a "quantity" trade instead of one premiere prospect for a big name, possibly like C.C. Sabathia.

 

Oh and of course, Ben Sheets is not going to be traded- (news event of the year).

That is really good to hear. I would assume Gamel, LaPorta, and maybe even Jeffress are untouchable (Jeffress more because his ceiling is so high and his value is probably low after the suspension). I like that he is looking for a 2/3 guy who would cost some players but not the big guns. It would be interesting to know what guys who are available fall in that level of pitchers

 

[splitterpfj]

If the team is convinced that Jeffress is past his personal issue, then he needs to be untouchable. He's the best arm they've got above the rookie league right now.

[endaround]

Sounds like they are untouchable for Sabathia, which likely means no Sabathia, but that still leaves Greinke and Bedard.

[jjfanec]

Sounds like they are untouchable for Sabathia, which likely means no Sabathia, but that still leaves Greinke and Bedard.

I did not put that together at all. Melvin definitely did not rule out trading the "untouchables" for a guy he controlled more than 2 months. Have you seen anything to imply Greinke is available? I know there has been speculation here, but I was wondering if there was more to it. Greinke is the guy that intrigues me because he is young and putting it together. Bedard's current injury issues scare me right now.

 

[endaround]

KC is supposedly shopping him. Of course this is coming from the same baseball "minds" that swore Sheets was available in the off season.

[sheetskout]

WUMP also is speculating trading Fielder for Sabathia assuming you are able to sign Sabathia.

[Hate those Rodents]

I like Doug's thought process and think we are deep enough to trade for instance

 

Brad Nelson, Vinny Rottino, Cole Gillespie, David Welch, Luis Pena, and Taylor Green for Greinke. Would they do it?

[jjfanec]

WUMP also is speculating trading Fielder for Sabathia assuming you are able to sign Sabathia.

This trade makes no sense to me unless Sabithia signs for way less than what he says he wants. Why not just keep Sheets and Fielder. Fielder wont get his huge contract for a couple years. If the Brewers trade Fielder it would make sense to be for young pitching not a guy about to break the bank and who may not age well.

 

[wallus]

I like Doug's thought process and think we are deep enough to trade for instance

 

Brad Nelson, Vinny Rottino, Cole Gillespie, David Welch, Luis Pena, and Taylor Green for Greinke. Would they do it?

6 non top prospects? No.