The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[And That]

(ie, Bush is probably worth a few runs over a guy like Choate or DiFelice, etc)

You bite your tongue. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Mark DiFelice is a horse of a pitcher.

 

And if we got into the playoffs, yah, I'd rather have Sabathia than Bush (actually, Sabathia over McClung I guess) and yes we'd get draft picks for Sabathia and yes it would be awesome to have a Sheets/Sabathia front end of the rotation.

I could live with trading LaPorta as a centerpiece for Sabathia, and I realize it would also take either Salome or Lucroy, plus a Green or Gillespie and some other spare change sprinkled in. I would just want to make 100% sure that Sabathia could put us over the top first. I don't want to look back on 2008 as the year we had Sabathia for a couple months before he went to the Yankees after not making the playoffs.

 

[PeaveyFury]

and yes it would be awesome to have a Sheets/Sabathia front end of the rotation.

 

It would be pretty awesome to get to a three-man playoff rotation of Sheets/Sabathia/Suppan. In fact, it would be insanely awesome.

 

I would just want to make 100% sure that Sabathia could put us over the top first.

 

Understandable. But regardless of when we'd get Sabathia, we're still going to have at least two full months left in the regular season, and a ton of things can change in that time. As long as the Brewers are in the race (within a couple of games), it'd be hard to fault them for making the acquisition, even if the team finishes 4 games back in the WC race when it's all said and done.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

Don't forget losing fielder creates a bigger void at the left side of the plate. I don't think laporta is an option at first. This offense needs more balance and a better OBP overall. Power is not the problem. If fielder is dealt in the offseason, we will need a lefty to replace him. The future OF (hart, braun, laporta) are all righties. Brad Nelson? Gamel at 3rd? maybe Overbay? Roberts at 2nd? These are some lefty options that would help next year.

[yount19.u]

What da heck, how can someone have the same login as me? (Original Poster has the same login)

Awe man, and here I was thinking I had the most original login name........j/k. Hey, at least you were respectfull enough to capitalize Yount. My favorite player of all time and I treat his name like dirt.

[PeaveyFury]

As JJHardy7 brought up in a thread in the ML forum, how about trading Fielder FOR Sabathia? They'd get a good, major-league bat that they'd control for three years which is great for them since they'll be ready to compete again next year (unlike a team like the Giants or Royals), and they can fit in Fielder however they'd like since they can have him DH, especially with Hafner's status very up in the air right now. Plus, the Brewers can backfill 1B fairly well, though they'd better be darn sure that LaPorta or Nelson or Gamel or whomever can come up an hit reasonably well to replace him for the remainder of the year. The Brewers would essentially be getting Sabathia and either a first/supplemental pick or supplemental/second for Fielder.

 

Seems very possible to me and a good fit for both teams.

[Never Outhustled]

how about trading Fielder FOR Sabathia?

Fielder is a good fit for Cleveland, but he is worth significantly more than Sebathia because of there contract situations. I'd rather deal Fielder for a longterm pitching solution with Sheets impending FA looming over us.

[Dollarbill13]

The difference between Sabathia and Bush is maybe a couple of wins over the course of half a season. If you want to trade LaPorta (I wouldn't even think about trading Gamel) for a few wins, you better be darn sure those wins will be needed for something important.

Are you saying that you wouldn't think about trading Gamel because of his performance this year? Mat Gamel has a .415 BABIP (insanely high) this year while LaPorta has a .312 BABIP (pretty normal). If Gamel's BABIP evens out, his numbers will pale in comparison to LaPorta. They will still be very good, but not ridiculous like they currently look. Gamel is a career .885 OPS hitter and appears to have made some improvement to this game this season. However, I wouldn't be relying on him quite as much as many people are right now.

 

[Bert55]

Although getting Sabathia for the balance of the year would be awesome and tee off alot of Cub fans, I just don't like renting players. Fielder being traded would suck, but what can you do if he wants to go into the open market.

 

Lastly....Remeber last year how the announcers were saying that Prince was the leader in the clubhouse and very respected. Your not hearing that at all this year.

[sheetswannabe]

Bert, Ive heard Fielder mentioned as leader of the clubhouse just as much this year as last year.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

The question is now, who is more valuable to the Brewers? Zach Greinke who would be under our control through 2010 or CC who would be a few month rental. CC might be better than Greinke, but i think we could sign Zach to a reasonable contract.

 

#1 starters are extremely difficult to replace and Zach could become our replacement for Sheets. We have Gamel/LaPorta to step in. I would much rather trade Fielder for Greinke than CC Sabathia

[splitterpfj]

I wouldn't trade Fielder for Sabathia without a contract extension for CC. I'd have to think the odds of him signing one, mid-season, with a new team, are basically zero.

[And That]

Are you saying that you wouldn't think about trading Gamel because of his performance this year?

Nope. IMO, he has a higher ceiling at the plate and the potential to play third base, while LaPorta is basically a first baseman playing the outfield. LaPorta is a excellent prospect, but I'd much rather have a lefty hitting third baseman than a righty hitting first baseman.

 

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Again, when talking about trading players, Fielder could net a much better player than Gamel or Laporta (alone)... for that reason, and financial reasons, i saw trade Prince

[jhartzell2]

Having Sabthia in the batting order every fifth day would also be benificial for the Crew.

[giffted1]

I wouldn't consider trading Fielder for Sabathia. If we trade Fielder we should get a top of the rotation starter for more than a couple months. I'd do a package of prospects with either Gamel or LaPorta as the centerpiece only if we're in the race.

[yoshii8]

From everything I've heard Laporta has looked very good in his transition to the outfield, I think that both Laporta and Gamel are both close to big league ready and could become very good middle of the order hitters. I would not give up either one for a few months of Sabathia. I would rather see them target a pitcher w/ a few years left on his contract like Greinke.

[Dollarbill13]

Nope. IMO, he has a higher ceiling at the plate and the potential to play third base, while LaPorta is basically a first baseman playing the outfield. LaPorta is a excellent prospect, but I'd much rather have a lefty hitting third baseman than a righty hitting first baseman.

 

Fair enough. I do think that Gamel should stay in the minors all of next year if we plan on using him at 3B. Reports say that his defense is much improved, but I'm afraid that much be an upgrade from atrocious to bad at this point.

[Never Outhustled]

LaPorta is a much better RF than Gamel is a 3B. Also, Laporta's hitting this year is more impressive to me as its the 1st time he's seen anything close to this caliber of pitching, while Gamel has seen the level of pitching he's seen increase gradually. Laporta may be a few months older than Gamel, but he hasn't had the same quality of experience, and his junior year of college was basically a lost year because of nagging injury.

 

As for Sebathia, he hasn't been as good as Greinke this year, and had only pitched 200 innings once in the last 5 years.

[ILuvDaBush]

What about Rich Harden? When healthy, he is the best of the three (and don't bring up the Cy Colon Award he won last year). A healthy Harden is like a healthy Sheets, and imagine marching into the postseason with Sheets and Harden leading this year, then Harden and Yo next year, unless we sign Big Ben, which I am all for. The Canadian connection is there, and LaPorta would seem to be the ideal cornerstone hitter that the rebuilding A's need. I know many will say that we would be overpaying with LaPorta for an injury risk like Harden, but he has a very palatable deal and supposedly Billy Beane has been asking for a lot. Honestly, it may very well be overpaying, but if he's healthy, there are only 10 pitchers who I would rather send out there to pitch a make-or-break game....and we already have two.

[PeaveyFury]

and had only pitched 200 innings once in the last 5 years.

 

While that's true, it's also very misleading, as he's been just below 200 IP in each of the other 4 years in the last 5 (197.7 in 2003, 188.0 in 2004, 196.7 in 2005, 192.7 in 2006, and 241.0 last year). In fact, he's never pitched less than 180.3 IP and 28 starts in his entire career so far. Greinke has never pitched more than 185 IP in a season yet, for the record.

[And That]

LaPorta is a much better RF than Gamel is a 3B. Also, Laporta's hitting this year is more impressive to me as its the 1st time he's seen anything close to this caliber of pitching, while Gamel has seen the level of pitching he's seen increase gradually. Laporta may be a few months older than Gamel, but he hasn't had the same quality of experience, and his junior year of college was basically a lost year because of nagging injury.

That's all correct, but I'd still rather have a 3B than a LF/RF, if both are nothing special on defense and the 3B is left handed. I think Gamel will stick at third long term because he'll be granted the time there that Braun was never given. I doubt he'll ever win a Gold Glove, but the same holds true for LaPorta. And I just think Gamel has more upside as a hitter in part because he's more athletic than LaPorta is. That's no knock against LaPorta, who has tremendous upside himself. I guess the arguments for who has the better bat might be personal preference and splitting hairs, but again, I'll take the lefty 3B over the righty corner OF/1B.

 

You could also look at it as LaPorta having more trade value anyway given Gamel's current problems defensively.

[kramnoj]

I think Gamel will stick at third long term because he'll be granted the time there that Braun was never given.

 

Do you mean he'll stay in the minors until the Brewers feel he's ready? That makes sense to me. The Brewers could put in a player x/Hall platoon at 3B for another season if needed.

[And That]

I think Gamel will stick at third long term because he'll be granted the time there that Braun was never given.

 

Do you mean he'll stay in the minors until the Brewers feel he's ready?

Correct... I should have worded that more clearly. The Brewers seem to be intent on not rushing Gamel because he's a truly exciting long-term option at third base, as long as he can play third base. He'll be given every opportunity in the minors to prove that he can, even if it means handling AA/AAA pitching for awhile longer than we're used to seeing a player do. After Gamel, the Brewers best options in the minors at third base are Taylor Green (who is a second baseman) and Brett Lawrie (when he signs, and if he doesn't take to catching).

 

As for LaPorta, the Brewers have nearly limitless options in the corner outfield and first base. Heck, Gamel's an option there. And for my money, that makes Gamel more valuable to the Brewers.

 

[1992casey]

The username duplication isn't a matter of case sensitivity. The newbie yount19 has a global (.u) profile. The oldbie Yount19 has a local (.brewersfandemonium) profile.

 

In Yuku's eyes, these are totally different names. However, because Yuku drops the ".brewersfandemonium" on a local profile's "home" board, it all looks the same in our eyes.

 

I've used Yuku's "replace usernames" script to tack ".u" onto our newer yount19. That solution is cosmetic; nothing more. And it only applies here at Brewerfan; it has no effect on how the name displays in yount19.u's profile or on any other Yuku board. Login procedures remain the same. And the small percentage of users who disable javascript won't see any difference.

[monty57]

I'm torn on this. While I'd love to have Sabathia for the playoff run, I'd hate to give up 6 years of some very talented players for a couple months of CC.

While Cleveland is playing poorly this season, they still see themselves as a contending team for next year, so I would imagine that they'd like to get some major league ready talent. As was stated by another poster, Hall and Villinueva are two pieces that have favorable contracts and wouldn't hurt too much to give up. I'd just hate to add LaPorta to that mix. Since what we're initially cometing against is the value of two draft picks, Hall and Villy may be a good starting point, and then see if we could add a good prospect that isn't a major part of our future.

We could also trade away just about anyone at the lower minor league levels, as losing Sheets and Sabathia should net us an additional two #1s and two comps for next year's draft. Added to this year's selections, and we'll have a plethora of talent in Rookie and A ball.

If it comes to trading LaPorta or Gamel, I think I'd rather hold onto them and trade Fielder during the offseason for a young stud pitcher that we could hold onto for a few seasons.