The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[RU Rah Rah]

There's no commodity teams chase harder at the deadline than starting pitching. And it's mind-boggling how rarely it gets them anywhere. Consider this: • The last two starting pitchers acquired at midseason to win a World Series game were Jeff Weaver (picked off the scrap heap), for the 2006 Cardinals, and Mike Torrez (a relic of another era), for the 1977 Yankees. • And the last two pitchers traded on Deadline Day (July 31) to win any kind of postseason game were Oliver Perez (a reclamation-project throw-in), for the 2006 Mets, and David Weathers (as a set-up reliever), for the 1996 Yankees.

See, this is why I would rather make another kind of deal.

 

Just to think out loud for a second: basically, it's going to boil down to starting CC rather than McClung. The idea would be that CC would outperform McClung over roughly 10 starts by . . . 1.5 runs allowed per start (just to make up a number). So the team would save 15 runs by having CC. (Or make up another number -- 20 runs, or whatever.)

 

I know that could make a difference, but how much, really? And at what long-term cost?

[RyDogg66]

Cubs fans on NSSB think the following

 

Some think LaPorta + Escobar would be great..because the Brewers would be giving up too much. I agree with these guys

 

Some think that Shapiro wouldnt do a deal around guys like Salome/Brantly/Gillespie because "Shapiro doesnt have to deal Sabathia, he can just take the picks" THese guys think that the two picks which would be two late 1st rounders would be closer to the bigs and better than Salome, Pena, etc. These guys are mistaken. While the picks are nice compensation, they are not going to trump a haul from the BRewers system

 

Next, one guy saud LaPorta and Escobar is a good start, but that the Brewers would most likely need to add a player or two to get it done. Wow, as Ned Yost would say, "If you know anything about baseball" you know that is wrong.

[Brewcrewin07]

All I know is, with all this talk the Brewers better get CC or I am going to be extremely angry. It's not nice to tease like this. What else some people are forgetting is by acquiring CC, you are also providing insurance should Sheets get hurt for any amount of time this year. I don't care what the price is, prospects are just that, prospects, could pan out, could be busts. CC is a proven commodity and though nothing is guaranteed, you don't think the fear of god would be put into the Cubs and their organization if the Brewers trot out Sheets and Sabathia every five days?? This would then force their hands into acquiring AJ Burnett(which wouldn't bother me at all), and likely overpay for him.

 

I love the fact that the team I follow is a MAJOR player in trying to acquire the best available arm at the trade deadline. I'll be even happier when I wake up one morning and it's a done deal. The sooner the better, you have to get as many starts as possible out of him.

[BrewCrewForever]

LaPorta and Escobar for Sabathia? No thanks.

[Dmiles23]

Something for the people to think about who believe CC wouldn't make that much of a difference. Starting after the All-Star break, most likely Sheets would pitch the first game, and CC the second. If they go with the 5 man rotation the whole year, Sheets will have 1 start against St. Louis and 3 against Chicago. CC will have 2 starts against St. Louis, and 3 against the Cubs. Not saying by any means those are guaranteed wins, but CC would have a big impact on what happens in this division. Plus, if it comes down to the wire, having Sheets and Sabathia pitch the last 2 games of the year would make me very confident.

[Madtown Bomber]

Just heard Rosenthal on the radio and he said that another player likely a bullpen guy would come along with Sabathia if Escobar and LaPorta were involved.

[Tbadder]

If LaPorta or Escobar are included, if just one goes, the Brewers will rue the day. The cost of catching prospects is quite steep, and if we can't get CC for Green, Salome, and Gillespie plus a minor league pitcher that's not named Jeffress then the Crew better stand pat. If Melvin includes the other two he's just saying "we've got no future." And I'd be very disturbed by that. Enough to fire him and replace him with Jack Z.

[lukevan]

Just heard Rosenthal on the radio and he said that another player likely a bullpen guy would come along with Sabathia if Escobar and LaPorta were involved.

 

Nice. I'm on board. I think Sabathia could be worth more than 2 extra wins if he pitches like an ace most of the second half. Bolster the pen and the rotation while not touching the major league club. How about a reliever and a low-level SS prospect to go with Sabathia? LaPorta is going to be a big-time hitter and Escobar is a defensive whiz, we're giving up a lot of potential talent but Sabathia is the kind of guy that should be valuable enough to make the deal. Who knows, we could end up with another LaPorta or Escobar with the comp. picks?

[LUKE232323]

No way you trade any two of LaPorta/Gamel/Escobar. Just no way in hell that is a good deal for Milwaukee. One of those three + Taylor + maybe something else is more than fair.

 

And I will say this, if the Brewers do make this deal, they absolutely either have to:

 

1. Make the playoffs this season

2. Re-sign Sabathia

3. Both

 

Or it is a horrible trade. This is a risky move regardless, I'm very high on the AA guys and think all three are going to be very good major leaguers. If this is done it had better only be one of those three.

[Madtown Bomber]

Haudicourt on 540 just said he would expect a deal to be done before Sabathia's next turn in the rotation. His latest source is saying LaPorta, Green, and possibly lower level prospect for Sabathia but they told the Indians that this is only going to be offered for a limited time and then it is off the table. It is getting interesting.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Luke, Sabathia will not be re-signed, he is supposedly asking for Santana money. This will be a rental, we'll get 2 picks for CC and most likely Sheets. After thinking about this LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar & Jeffress should be held out of this deal.

 

 

What about Brantley, Green & Braddock (or another pitcher of some consequence) or we could include Salome.

 

 

All 4 of the above guys most likely could have starting spots and we need those cheap slots to re-sign a few of our "stars". The Brewers are well positioned this off-season due to 1 year contracts to really re-focus their money. Gagne, Mota, Cameron & Sheets come off the books. That's like $30 million dollars.

[trwi7]

Just heard Rosenthal on the radio and he said that another player likely a bullpen guy would come along with Sabathia if Escobar and LaPorta were involved.

 

Interesting. I would love it if it was Rafael Perez but I'm guessing it's either Kobayashi or Betancourt as a change of scenery.

[Madtown Bomber]

Do we have to wait for Kobayashi until he finishes the Hot Dog eating thing today?

[LUKE232323]

Luke, Sabathia will not be re-signed, he is supposedly asking for Santana money. This will be a rental, we'll get 2 picks for CC and most likelt Sheets. After thinking about this LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar & Jeffress should be held out of this deal.

 

 

What about Brantley, Green & Braddock (or another pitcher of some consequence) or we could include Salome.

 

 

All 4 of the above guys most likely could have starting spots and we need those cheap slots to re-sign a few of our "stars". The Brewers are well positioned this off-season due to 1 year contracts to really re-focus their money. Gagne, Mota, Cameron & Sheets come off the books. That's like $30 million dollars.

There is no way we can get CC without giving up at least one of the AA studs. If I had my choice of who to keep between Gamel/LaPorta, it would be Gamel for our team. Higher OBP guy and he's left handed, while also having pretty solid power. If we could get it done for one of the AA guys, I'd be ok with it, but damn I'd be pretty much expecting the playoffs.

 

[bklynbrewcrew]

If LaPorta or Escobar are included, if just one goes, the Brewers will rue the day. The cost of catching prospects is quite steep, and if we can't get CC for Green, Salome, and Gillespie plus a minor league pitcher that's not named Jeffress then the Crew better stand pat. If Melvin includes the other two he's just saying "we've got no future." And I'd be very disturbed by that. Enough to fire him and replace him with Jack Z.

I couldnt agree more with this. We will rue the day that we trade LaPorta for a rental. If Melvin makes this trade he definitely needs to be replaced by Jack Z because he is mortgaging the future on a rental pitcher. Melvin needs to keep LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, and Jeffress out of any deal for a rental.

[igor67]

Looking strategically it would be a huge risk for the Brewers to give up either Escobar, Jeffress, Lucroy, or Green. Jeremy because at this point he's the only semi advanced pitching prospect with a high ceiling. We added a bunch of guys, but counting on pitchers who were just drafted is a fool errand. On a more fundamental level Escobar, Lucroy, and Green are the only hitters we've got that we can be confident that they can play average to better than average defense outside of the corner positions. You start trading those guys away and we end up with a complete glut of studs at the corners and nothing anywhere else. That is not a good plan for eventually having useful depth, or getting good value for those players in trade. Given the draft picks as compensation I do think it is reasonable to trade Laporta as the center point of a trade and add in some other parts. I don't mind going after the Indians, but I really would put a call into the Giants though because all things being equal they need a lot of talent and we could really afford to drop a number of bats on them for 1 starting pitcher. Something like Nelson, Gwynn, Laporta, and Salome for Lincecum. Maybe they don't bite for whatever reason.

[TheCrew07]

We are not a small market team

We are the smallest market in the game, with a middle of the pack payroll. People keep posting that "we aren't a small market", when it's entirely untrue, as we're the smallest market, which any number will bear out... fewest households, smallest TV contract... Many of us have reached a place where we want to win now and get to the playoffs so bad that we're losing sight of the truth. Sabathia isn't even the biggest issue facing this team longterm...

 

I know this whole thing is out of my control, and I'll be curious how this plays out through the winter. I stand by my opinion that giving up top prospects for a rental is not in the best long term interests of the team. This team has a realistic chance of making the playoffs without Sabathia, and that's the route I'd rather take. Somehow the articless that show the teams which sell the player end up better in the end get dismissed around here... I think history bears out that the wisest course of action is to unload Prince for top pitching prospects in the off season, than burn our prospects on the "chance" that something good might happen. I'd rather the team use it's assets to aquire longterm solutions, but I'm in the minority around here, so it's time to quit "raging against the machine".

[KCBrewerfan34]

This deal has to be done for only 1 reason (PLAYOFFS THIS YEAR). Brantley is considered 1 of the big prospects at AA http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

To give up a Top Ten talent the rest of the package shouldn't be that much more. My question is if the Brewers have offered LaPorta why hasn't Cleveland taken the deal???

They should be thrilled to get a prospect like that for their (OF) or 1b for a rental.

[KCBrewerfan34]

If LaPorta goes is there a chance something might be up with Fielder's contract situation?

[kramnoj]

We are the smallest market in the game, with a middle of the pack payroll. People keep posting that "we aren't a small market", when it's entirely untrue, as we're the smallest market, which any number will bear out... fewest households, smallest TV contract... Many of us have reached a place where we want to win now and get to the playoffs so bad that we're losing sight of the truth. Sabathia isn't even the biggest issue facing this team longterm...

 

The size of the market isn't really the most important part. The revenue generated is. And the Brewers are around the middle of the pack in that regard, thanks to Miller Park and a contending team that the fans are coming out to support.

[Josh23fan]

If LaPorta goes is there a chance something might be up with Fielder's contract situation?

 

Couldn't Gamel always shift to first?

[Madtown Bomber]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/07/04/stars-aligned-for-sabathia-deal.aspx#comments

 

Haudicourt just heard from a big time source (probably Melvin or Ash) that there is no way on earth Escobar and LaPorta are offered together.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I guess he could but has he ever played there? and if we're planning on trading Fielder this off-season someone has to play there? I have not heard that Gamel has touched a 1b man's glove, can he go and play 75 games at 1b be called our next 1b? I don't know the answer to that.

[Josh23fan]

I guess he could but has he ever played there? and if we're planning on trading Fielder this off-season someone has to play there? I have not heard that Gamel has touched a 1b man's glove, can he go and play 75 games at 1b be called our next 1b? I don't know the answer to that.

 

I'm not sure either. But he may eventually be a better first baseman than third baseman. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[BrewPackBuck]

I guess he could but has he ever played there? and if we're planning on trading Fielder this off-season someone has to play there? I have not heard that Gamel has touched a 1b man's glove, can he go and play 75 games at 1b be called our next 1b? I don't know the answer to that.

Maybe have Gamel in AAA next year to learn 1B and have Nelson up at 1B next year.