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The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

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RSteadman19 Prep Ball

RSteadman19

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According to ESPN the Phillies are now making CC their number 1 target and are trying to figure out what it will take to get him, but aren't sure if they can make it happen. Also it says that the Indians are putting up the white flag and are going to start to field offers on CC, Byrd and Blake. Lets hope that we can get something done soon.
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phxMILWfan Draft Eligible

phxMILWfan

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People have mentioned that other clubs don't have the prospects we have, or probably wouldn't "sell the farm". How would DM know what other clubs were really willing to give up? It's not like the Indians have to be honest and say "yeah other teams aren't offering much so just give us some lower level prospects". Their going to lie and say that they are getting great offers and that it IS going to take Laporta, Gamel, or Escobar. Then you enter a situation where you are bidding against yourself really.
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Crewin06 College Ball

Crewin06

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"Betancourt would be tantamount to Linebrink last year, so you're giving up Salome (our third best prospect this year, paralleling our #3 last year, Inman) and probably Gillespie for Betancourt, then getting CC for Green and Charlie V?"

Really we need to give up Salome and Gillespie for Betancourt who has a 6+ ERA this year and we have to pay him 5+ million next season?

 

If that is the case what can the Brewers get for Gagne.

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Dmiles23 Draft Eligible

Dmiles23

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That doesn't surprise me at all about the Phillies, what will surprise me is if they give up what it takes.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about the Phillies farm system. But taking just a quick glance, I don't know if they are a good match for Cleveland. Because Cleveland has in mind that they will again be a contender next year, I'm assuming they will want to get pieces back that will have a chance to contribute next year already. I just looked at the top 5 of BA's Phillies top 10 prospects, and this is what I came up with:

Carlos Carrasco: Could be a key piece, but he was scratched from his last start because of shoulder soreness with scouts in attendance. That can't be a good thing.

 

Adrian Cardenas: The 2B prospect the Indians may be looking for, but is still in A ball. So he's still a couple, if not more, years from contributing.

 

Joe Savery: Struggling in A ball.

 

Josh Outman: Having a solid year in AA as a relief pitcher.

 

Kyle Drabeck: On the DL, and I don't believe he has pitched in '08. (Had Tommy John surgery in 07)

 

Like I said, I don't know anything about the Phils system. But just taking a quick glance, if Cleveland is interested in players that may contribute next year, the Phils don't appear to have that... Especially is Carrasco is hurt.

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southpaw121505 Draft Eligible

southpaw121505

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People have mentioned that other clubs don't have the prospects we have, or probably wouldn't "sell the farm". How would DM know what other clubs were really willing to give up? It's not like the Indians have to be honest and say "yeah other teams aren't offering much so just give us some lower level prospects". Their going to lie and say that they are getting great offers and that it IS going to take Laporta, Gamel, or Escobar. Then you enter a situation where you are bidding against yourself really.

 

This is how all trades work though. GMs don't have the advantage of knowing the other teams offers. DM already has in mind what he is willing to offer and if the Tribe wants to play hardball and say other teams have a better offer on the table then so be it. We can call their bluff and keep our proposal on the table, maybe make a slight tweak to sweeten the pot but nothing like "throwing in" a top tier guy.

 

I say offer something like this:

-Their choice of Salome OR Brantley

-Gillepsie(or any OF not named LaPorta if they prefer) OR Nelson

-Then they pick two more guys of their choice off of a list of lower guys (Dillard, Irribaren, Bray, Braddock, etc)

 

I would not in any way include LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar or Jeffress. The more I think about it the more I pray we don't give up these potential studs for a dozen starts from a guy. I'm even reluctant to give up Salome or Brantley. I am happy to hear DM leaning towards a quantity trade. We have some guys, especially Gillepsie and Nelson who are solid and almost ready guys that would be higher rated prospects in most organizations but get somewhat overlooked in the deep Brewers system. It's that depth that allows us to take a chance in a quantity deal. I still think if we move any of the four I bolded above we better be getting a Cain or someone we control beyond this year.

 

Edit to add:

I totally disagree with people proposing trading LaPorta because he is another righy bat. So what, a special bat is a special bat. You can get lefties with the last few positions you fill in your order.

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phxMILWfan Draft Eligible

phxMILWfan

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People have mentioned that other clubs don't have the prospects we have, or probably wouldn't "sell the farm". How would DM know what other clubs were really willing to give up? It's not like the Indians have to be honest and say "yeah other teams aren't offering much so just give us some lower level prospects". Their going to lie and say that they are getting great offers and that it IS going to take Laporta, Gamel, or Escobar. Then you enter a situation where you are bidding against yourself really.
This is how all trades work though. GMs don't have the advantage of knowing the other teams offers. DM already has in mind what he is willing to offer and if the Tribe wants to play hardball and say other teams have a better offer on the table then so be it. We can call their bluff and keep our proposal on the table, maybe make a slight tweak to sweeten the pot but nothing like "throwing in" a top tier guy.

 

I say offer something like this:

-Their choice of Salome OR Brantley

-Gillepsie(or any OF not named LaPorta if they prefer) OR Nelson

-Then they pick two more guys of their choice off of a list of lower guys (Dillard, Irribaren, Bray, Braddock, etc)

 

I would not in any way include LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar or Jeffress. The more I think about it the more I pray we don't give up these potential studs for a dozen starts from a guy. I'm even reluctant to give up Salome or Brantley. I am happy to hear DM leaning towards a quantity trade. We have some guys, especially Gillepsie and Nelson who are solid and almost ready guys that would be higher rated prospects in most organizations but get somewhat overlooked in the deep Brewers system. It's that depth that allows us to take a chance in a quantity deal. I still think if we move any of the four I bolded above we better be getting a Cain or someone we control beyond this year.

 

Edit to add:

I totally disagree with people proposing trading LaPorta because he is another righy bat. So what, a special bat is a special bat. You can get lefties with the last few positions you fill in your order.

 

I think you summed up what I was trying to say but couldn't really figure out how to. I've just read stuff where people think that we just have to beat other teams offers and there is no real way to know for a fact what that is. I also agree with you on LaPorta but I'm not entirely sure that they will move Prince or that moving him is a good idea. I was against trading TGJ but there has to be a point where we realize you can only put 9 guys on the field at a time and if he isn't in the plans to be a starter, isn't making a legitimate run at even making the playoffs worth losing a 4th outfielder? If some combination of Hart, Braun, LaPorta, Gwynn Jr, Nelson, possibly Gamel if he can't play third, Iribarrenor any other prospects in the system will be our starting outfield, I think it's worth putting together a deal of TGJ, one of Weeks/Hardy/Escobar, and someone like Dillard to make a run at the playoffs. The compensation draft picks will only help to restock the farm system and you can have so many guys that will all be ready at the same time in your system anyway.
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SeriesFinale ACL Brewers

SeriesFinale

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I'm always interested as to how GMs handle situations like this where there are other bidders but you don't know what their bids are....do you go "all in" right away with everything you're willing to give up to get a player in order to appear the most attractive, or do you inch up your bid in hopes of not giving more than you absolutely have to but take on the risk of losing out to another bidder with a better (at the time) offer?

 

Obviously setting a limit for yourself as to what you're willing to trade is wise, and if another team offers more than you're willing to give, so be it, but the process is fraught with peril regardless.

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nate82 Wisconsin Timber Rattlers

nate82

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In Buster Onley's blog free preview btw today for ESPN insider stuff.

 

Olney has this to say.

 

"Heard this: Right now, the Red Sox and Rays essentially have no interest in completing a trade for C.C. Sabathia, because of other concerns. For Boston there may be a developing need for a bat, depending on how David Ortiz recovers from his wrist injury, as well as bullpen help, and for Tampa Bay the priority is going to be a right-handed hitting outfielder -- someone like the Pirates' Xavier Nady -- and perhaps some bullpen help.

The Phillies, on the other hand, have the motivation to get a Sabathia deal done; the question is whether they would be willing to package a group of prospects from their relatively thin farm system for a rent-a-pitcher."

Not sure how long the free preview will be up but here is the link.
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Brewcrewin07 ACL Brewers

Brewcrewin07

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Just saw the same thing. I know I am probably setting myself up for disappointment, but this thing is going to get done, I can feel it. Perhaps before the ASB. How awesome would it be to come out of the ASB with Sheets and Sabathia, back to back in the rotation?? The sooner this gets done, the better. The Crew then gets more starts out of him. Get it done Doug!!!

 

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JumpinMacFlash Draft Eligible

JumpinMacFlash

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I really like Taylor Green, he's one of the players I always check the Link Report for. He reminds me of one of my all-time favorite Brewers, Jeff Cirillo. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to giving him up for Sabathia. I'd rather lose him than Gamel. I think Gamel can be a real special player and has a higher ceiling than Green.

 

But I'm guessing that it will probably take at least two or three other players. If this trade were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised to see Salome included as well. I'd also guess that Cleveland would want a pitcher coming back, but with the complete lack of advanced pitching prospects in the system now that Parra and Gallardo are in the majors, I'm not thinking that would happen. I don't see Melvin giving up Jeffress too. What about Braddock?

 

Going off the Power 50 rankings, is it too much to give up No. 5, 6, and 7?

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paul253 Carolina Mudcats

paul253

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Not sure if this was brought up, but a blog on the JS today said the Indians were scouting Taylor Green. I wouldnt mind at all if he were the center piece of a deal, although I think he'd be a nice replacement for Weeks. I just wouldnt trade Jeffress, and I would rather keep Gamel than LaPorta because hitting like .370 is AA is just ridiculous. Plus he's a lefty and I think he could slide into first base if need be. I'd say something like Green, Gillespie or Brantley and then maybe a Braddock of something would be a hell of a deal.
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JumpinMacFlash Draft Eligible

JumpinMacFlash

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I really like Green and I agree that Gillespie gets overlooked because of the others around him. I was thinking more along the lines of Pena. I was under the impression that he's been fairly streaky and walk-prone. I thought he would be in the ML bullpen by now, but I would think that Cleveland would be more interested in a starter rather than a reliever.
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