The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 1)

[molitor fan]

Watch Milwaukee, but also watch Tampa, my bet is on one of the two. Tampa could give more arms, for sure, while the Brewers have the better bats ready to move.

 

A recent injury to top prospect Jake Davis (oops, I meant Jake McGee) may hamper Tampa a little bit, as his recent diagnosis of needing Tommy John will take a possible chip off the table.

[JonnyLungs]

According to Buster Olney, Tampa seems more focused on getting a right-handed bat than they are a pitcher.

[Hammer]

Tampa has some arms, we have lots of bats. There is another opportunity for a trade...

[TheCrew07]

John the problem is that the longterm rotation needs outweigh the short term, the Brewers have to keep enough ammunition to get a deal done for a long term rotation solution. If they dump everything for a rental, what's left?

 

I want Sabathia, I think anyone who roots for the Brewers wants Sabathia, but it has to be for the correct price. In the same way that sigining sheets would have to be for the proper amount of years and dollars, a team can only go so far. Can one starting pitcher net us a couple of more wins this year? Absolutely, but how many wins are we giving up in the future, and how many wins would be short next year in the rotation? If we can get a quality arm this offseason then next year we'd have Yo, Arm, Para, Suppan, Bush/McClung... then the following year Yo, Arm, Para, Jeffress, Suppan...after that Suppan is gone but there's Braddock and a host of young arms coming, that hopefully stay healthy and can solidify the rotation longterm.

 

Melvin has valuable assets to move and I would hope he'd get the greatest possible value in return, that's all I ask... do the best you can with what you have. Rental deals and free agent signings are a tough market for the Brewers and will continue to be unless the economics of baseball change. The team isn't able to afford to sign type A free agents to plug holes left by gouging the system for rental player deals. Melvin will have to pick and choose his spots, the Brewers aren't going to be able to be buyers every year and maintain consistency on the MLB level.

[KCBrewerfan34]

McGee is the Tampa prospect who needs TJ. They still have Davis & Price, both very close to the majors, I would think TB us looking for offense.

[fondybrewfan]

Fondy, if Weeks is traded, either Hall or Alcides Escobar would play second base.

Escobar hasn't played a day of 2nd in his life right? I sure as heck don't want Hall playing every day at 2nd. I would be less than thrilled to see this scenario play out. Escobar would be skipping AAA entirely and moving to a new position. That would be a recipe for disaster IMO. Besides why would we want to move a potential gold glover to a new position. A Weeks trade just doesn't make any sense to me at all

[Robideaux]

It makes me very, very nervous to contemplate trading away top prospects (LaPorta, Gamel, et. al) for a rental pitcher, regardless of how awesome that pitcher might be. How's this for a dystopian scenario?: We put together a package centered around LaPorta to pry Sabathia away from the Indians. He does well for us down the stretch, but we end up missing the playoffs to a streaking Mets team. Then Sheets and Sabathia both leave to free agency. Our rotation at that point is:

 

1. Gallardo (coming off of surgery)

2. Parra

3. Suppan

4. Bush

5. McClung

 

I don't see how that rotation is good enough to carry us to the post season. Additionally, we just gave away one of the few assets that could theoretically help us bring in a pitcher for next year and beyond. I am not against trading prospects, but it is very risky for a small market team to trade high level prospects for a rental because we can't just plug our future holes with high priced free agents.

 

If I was going to trade LaPorta (who I think might turn into a cross between Burrell and Thome) I'd want to get back a cornerstone rotation guy who we control for a number of years. It seems to me that most of the trade scenarios presented in this thread are arguably more valuable than the one's offered to get Haren or Santana. How is 3 months of Sabathia more valuable than those guys signed long-term?

 

I think I'd target somebody like Matt Cain or Shaun Marcum for LaPorta+. That gives us a better chance now, and in the future.

[brewerfan82]

I would really love to see us go for it and acquire Sabathia. If we can put a package together that doesn't include either LaPorta or Gamel, it's a no-brainer, but even if we have to deal one of them, we still have the other to take his future position. I know they both could fit into the lineup, especially if Fielder gets traded away, but they fill similar roles for the team and losing one doesn't create a huge hole because the other one is there.

 

Additionally, if we can't sign either Sheets or Sabathia longterm, we're going to be set up with quite a wave of prospects with 12+ picks in the first two rounds of this year and next year's drafts. Not only does that allow for new, young talent in the system, but that much more flexibility to trade for an arm later if we need to.

[Klements Bratwurst]

A Weeks trade just doesn't make any sense to me at all

Unless of course Melvin plugs the Weeks hole with a Mark Grudzielanek, Ray Durham, Ronnie Belliard (gasp), (insert established veteran middle infielder here) after using Weeks in a Sabathia deal.

[Brewcrewin07]

The ideal trade(s) for the Brewers to make would be 1. To acquire Sabathia 2. Acquire Brian Roberts to replace Weeks(if he's included in a deal). You've improved yourself immensely at two spots.

[SeriesFinale]

Additionally, if we can't sign either Sheets or Sabathia longterm, we're going to be set up with quite a wave of prospects with 12+ picks in the first two rounds of this year and next year's drafts. Not only does that allow for new, young talent in the system, but that much more flexibility to trade for an arm later if we need to.

 

Beyond that, we'll have money to sign a SP, if not one the caliber of Big Ben or Sabathia. I don't see the rotation looking like the way Robideaux laid it out, even in the worst-case scenario. I think we'll sign one of them, though.

 

[Oldcity]

The ideal trade(s) for the Brewers to make would be 1. To acquire Sabathia 2. Acquire Brian Roberts to replace Weeks(if he's included in a deal). You've improved yourself immensely at two spots.

And emptied your farm for two guys: one you control for two months, the other you control for 1.5 seasons. When Sabathia leaves, and if Sheets leaves, you have nothing to help you acquire pitching.

 

[Brewcrewin07]

The ideal trade(s) for the Brewers to make would be 1. To acquire Sabathia 2. Acquire Brian Roberts to replace Weeks(if he's included in a deal). You've improved yourself immensely at two spots.

And emptied your farm for two guys: one you control for two months, the other you control for 1.5 seasons. When Sabathia leaves, and if Sheets leaves, you have nothing to help you acquire pitching.

 

Sorry, but I want to win NOW!!! You don't know what the future holds and this might be the Brewers best chance at making the playoffs again in quite sometime. I do what I have to do to give me the BEST chance(not a guaranteed chance, nothing is) of making the postseason right now. I'm done waiting, and I think the Brewers are too. There is no way you'd have to empty the farm system for these two guys anyway. Sabathia should be able to be gotten for one of the kids(Gamel or LaPorta) and Weeks. I'd even gladly give them Bush if they want him.

For Roberts, I'll give them Weeks(if he doesn't get dealt in a CC deal), and any other prospect minus Gamel(if LaPorta is already gone in a CC deal). The Orioles would be fools not to do that.

 

 

 

 

[brewerfan82]

I'd do it! Let's go for it! Heck, let's flip Gwynn over to SD for Maddux while we're at it. I'm totally serious, I'd be stoked to have Roberts leading off the next year and a half and have a rotation of Sheets, Sabathia, Parra, Maddux and Suppan going into a possible playoff berth for the first time since the year I was born.

[DHonks]

Before going to the game last night, I saw the lineup on JSonline, and thought, "wow, with Weeks out of the lineup tonight, we really probably just increased our chance or winning." Sure enough, Dillon doesn't have that lost look at the plate that Weeks and Hall have. With Hall and Weeks you just get the feeling that breaking balls out of the zone will be swung at, and fastballs over the plate are split between being swung through and taken.

 

At this point in time I consider Dillon to be a better player than Weeks, although that's fully expecting that in the near future that will not be so.

[SoCalBrewfan]

I'm not convinced they should give up LaPorta or Gamel, much less one of their major league starters in addition. He's a two month rental!

 

I don't think there's a chance in heck we get Sabathia without giving up one of these two guys plus other chips...just hope the other chips don't include another top 5 guy. If a Sabathia to Milwaukee deal goes through, people will scream to see how much we'll have to give up...it's going to be prospects that hurt, not just spare parts. Consider the Linebrink deal, then contemplate how much more valuable Sabathia is.

[splitterpfj]

I don't see a Sabathia deal getting done without one of the top five guys at Huntsville, and two additional prospects. If Linebrink gets you three prospects, there's no way Sabathia doesn't, only this time they're going to be even better prospects - you're not getting out of that one with the Huntsville roster intact.

 

I have no idea whether the Brewers would do it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cleveland wanted a Huntsville bat, Jeffress, and a third player.

 

If Weeks or Hardy are indeed made available, I have no idea what that would do to the overall deal.

[TheCrew07]

After thinking about this most of the morning I went around looking for young established players or up and coming players that the Brewers could control long term, looking at AL teams because I'd rather ship our talent out of the NL. These would be the guys I would center a deal around.

 

Toronto

Shaun Marcum

 

Baltimore

David Hernandez and/or Bradley Bergesen

Tampa Bay

James Shields

 

Oakland

Vincent Mazzaro

 

I know it's a short list, but again I kept it just to American league teams and players at AA or higher who could possibly be MLB ready by next year.

 

edit. I should add there were certain teams I didn't want the Brewers to deal with so I selfishly didn't include guys like Michael Bowden.

edit 2. I meant Bowden, not Bowman, who I was tweaking in OOTP.. sorry.

[jjfanec]

I don't see a Sabathia deal getting done without one of the top five guys at Huntsville, and two additional prospects. If Linebrink gets you three prospects, there's no way Sabathia doesn't, only this time they're going to be even better prospects - you're not getting out of that one with the Huntsville roster intact.

 

I have no idea whether the Brewers would do it, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cleveland wanted a Huntsville bat, Jeffress, and a third player.

 

If Weeks or Hardy are indeed made available, I have no idea what that would do to the overall deal.

In my mind there is no way you give up one of the Huntsville guys and Jeffress. Jeffress is more than likely the 3rd highest rated prospect on this team in terms of upside at least top 4. Keep in mind the Linebrink guys were guys we liked but outside of Inman nowhere near top guys. Garrison had just started to blossom and Thatcher was an older prospect.

 

[Josh23fan]

It pains me to think that Jeffress would be packaged with a Huntsville bat to aquire CC. Jeffress is hopefully the Brewers' CC of the future. I just think that would be too much for a rental.

[sbrylski]

Seeing just how much Sabathia is asking for in extension talks (he wants Santana money), put a damper on this. I liked thinking we would have a chance to resign him or Sheets. But assuming we won't or won't be able to, I would take a Sabathia trade as punting on 2009:

 

1. Our projected rotation next season won't be in shambles, but it won't be very good either. Just two guys there with upside, one coming off a major injury.

 

2. We've all heard the Fielder trade speculation, and regardless of how much we hope, we'll get more bidders and more value if we ask for high potential minor league pitchers rather than young established pitchers.

 

3. Our second wave will be hitting the beach. Rookies and players making their debuts mid-season brings back memories of 2006. At best its a team that can hope to contend if everything goes right.

 

But, I think the beauty of our current organizational makeup is in the way we should see a extremely quick turnaround. A decently stocked upper minors in pitching from the Fielder trade, a full roster of offensive prospects already in AA, and some above average big leaguers who can add even more through trade.

 

This offseason extend Hart and maybe Weeks, trade Fielder and Hardy, and start debuting our prospects in 2009, by 2010 and 2011 we could be and should be even better than we are now and have an even bigger window with which to win. If we try to field a champion in 2009 through more trades of prospects, I'm afraid we'll just end up dooming ourselves to a number of 85 win seasons, rather than a short cycle pattern of 80-95+ wins that could be possible.

 

That all changes if we are able to resign Sheets or CC in the event of a trade. But if DM and Mark A are smart about 2009, I'm all for gunning it for CC this season.

[Robideaux]

Why is Sabathia projected to "cost" more than did Haren in a trade?

[Gobias Industries]

Why is Sabathia projected to "cost" more than did Haren in a trade?

Yeah, I don't understand why the asking price is higher for two and a half months of Sabathia than a full year of Johan Santana as well.

 

Don't these five Huntsville guys project better than the centerpiece of the Santana deal; Pedro Gomez.

 

I think the best match for trading partners are the Giants and Brewers. Lets go get Matt Cain.

[TheCrew07]

Seeing just how much Sabathia is asking for in extension talks (he wants Santana money), put a damper on this. I liked thinking we would have a chance to resign him or Sheets. But assuming we won't or won't be able to, I would take a Sabathia trade as punting on 2009:

 

That all changes if we are able to resign Sheets or CC in the event of a trade. But if DM and Mark A are smart about 2009, I'm all for gunning it for CC this season.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, are you okay punting 2009 for a better chance at the playoffs this year?

[splitterpfj]

Oakland got six players for Haren and one additional, including two current members of their rotation, and outfielder Carlos Gonzalez. Is that cheap?

 

The Twins got four players for Johan, including Carlos Gomez.

 

The key difference of course, is that both players are signed beyond this season, I would think Sabathia would have to agree to a deal with Milwaukee for them to pull both Jeffress and a top bat out of here.

 

That would certainly be interesting.