Braun v Fukudome - VOTE NOW FOR THE ALL-STAR GAME (merged with Braun 4th in All-Star voting)

[jhart05]

I'm actually surprised that Braun is even close.

 

I would think the entire nation of Japan besides all the cubs fans would be voting for Fukudome.

[jjfanec]

Yikes, he sure did. Guess I jinxed him or something.

Of course, Braun has plummeted since then too, but for some reason that doesn't seem to affect him the same way...

 

Braun's bad last 7 days hasn't been as bad as Prince, so that is probably why, but I do think once Braun signed the contract extension he won the fans over. As for numbers over the past week Prince is 2 for his last 23 with no extra-base hits, 1 BB and 7 K's. Braun is 6 for 27, 2 2B, 0BB and 5 K's. There is a little difference there but not too much. They have both had some bad at bats lately.

 

[PeaveyFury]

I'm actually surprised that Braun is even close.

 

I'd say that Kendall being third, Weeks 5th at 2B, and Hall 4th(!!) at 3B, and all three OFers being in the Top 15 overall suggests that Brewer fans vote a LOT for the All Star game.

[jhart05]

Yes, but maybe I should have said I'm surprised Fukudome isn't running away with it. Since I would have thought the entire nation of Japan would be voting for him.

 

 

Anyway, I just threw 50 votes Braun, Hart, and Hardy's way. Sorry Prince, but Berkmann deserves it more this year.

[TheCrew07]

I just dropped votes for Hart and Braun on the rest of my email accounts, my sister's, and my parent's. I didn't realize Braun had closed the gap that far.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

i got my votes in for hart and braun....come on bf.net lets get this done

[Oldcity]

Of course, Braun has plummeted since then too, but for some reason that doesn't seem to affect him the same way...

 

I really hope you're not trying to insinuate what I think you are insinuating...

Reading that again, I think I may have, uh, insinuated what you insuated...? I really just meant that Braun is getting a free pass because the Brewers started his campaign earlier, yet I don't feel he deserves to go any more than Fielder does (at least before this road trip).

Fielder was probably deserving before this road trip, and Braun may have been, but now I don't think either are. Braun's now down to an .848 OPS, behind the likes of our very own Corey Hart.

I still think their only deserving all-star is Ben Sheets, with maybe Sal Torres on the cusp, but I'm definitely in the minority there.

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I still think their only deserving all-star is Ben Sheets, with maybe Sal Torres on the cusp, but I'm definitely in the minority there.

 

I agree with you overall... The only thing I think that perhaps you didn't touch on, is that Fielder has stiffer competition at 1b than Braun does in the OF (given there are 3 OF spots).

 

I think Sheets is the only lock -- I suspect Braun may get in -- I don't see Torres getting on the radar, his nice season notwithstanding.

[jazzytrav]

Turnbow's 5+ ERA didn't keep him from going to the ASG. But he had a lot of saves!

[jhart05]

Is Braun still the fastest to 150 RBI?

 

Does he still have the most HRs and RBI in the Majors since he's been called up? (If he doesn't, he's got to be in the top 5.)

 

That says All-Star to me.

[Glennron]

Is Braun still the fastest to 150 RBI?

 

Does he still have the most HRs and RBI since he's been called up? (If he doesn't, he's got to be in the top 5.)

 

That says All-Star to me.

I'll never get why people consider previous season(s) when voting for all stars. Obviously some people do with guys like Griffey who will be starters until they retire, but that doesn't mean it's legit. Bill Schroeder keeps mentioning how Braun was ROY last year so that should help his case. Fukudome was the Central League MVP a few years ago so I'm throwing votes his way.

[bucks2281]

From noon on Sunday, to noon on Tuesday, Braun has received 41% more online votes than Fukudome. I would venture to say that things are looking bright for Ryan.

 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080701&content_id=3044980&vkey=allstar2008&fext=.jsp

[brwrsfan]

I voted 75 times yesterday and today. Anyone else think that we might be doing this again next week for Corey Hart? I have a hunch he'll be one of those last 5 guys that we can vote on.

[naivin]

The way MLB is pumping this to both Brewer and Cub fans, I wonder if they might not both pass Griffey. In the end I'm not sure Brewer nation has the numbers on this one, but it'd be great to see. I suppose Braun's ability to conduct the well orchestrated national media 'tour' he has been doing the last couple days, that F-bomb cannot really do due to the language barrier could end up being the difference. Then again, I would assume F-bomb is sending plenty of interviews back to Japan as well.

[Invader3K]

I'll never get why people consider previous season(s) when voting for all stars. Obviously some people do with guys like Griffey who will be starters until they retire, but that doesn't mean it's legit. Bill Schroeder keeps mentioning how Braun was ROY last year so that should help his case. Fukudome was the Central League MVP a few years ago so I'm throwing votes his way.

I'll never understand why the second half of every season is essentially completely discounted in All-Star voting. Also, I don't think accomplishments in an inferior league (because MLB is the best baseball in the world) should factor in voting. It would be like voting for a guy who was the AAA MVP (or whatever their equivalent award is).

 

[lcbj68c]

I'll never get why people consider previous season(s) when voting for all stars. Obviously some people do with guys like Griffey who will be starters until they retire, but that doesn't mean it's legit. Bill Schroeder keeps mentioning how Braun was ROY last year so that should help his case. Fukudome was the Central League MVP a few years ago so I'm throwing votes his way.

I disagree. Just because the All-Star game is played every year, does not mean it should be an "award" only to quantify what the player has done that year. They have "Player of the Month" and "MVP" awards for those types of things. All-Star Games are meant to get the "Stars" together. Not to award players for having the best 3 month performance to start a season.

That said, Ryan Braun is a star! Ken Griffy Jr is a star! Fukudome is well liked and well known from his home country. But I've seen nothing yet in the MLB that makes him a star and therefore worthy of the All-Star Game. Sure, other guys have nice stats over the first 90 days that maybe Braun doesn't excel in, but come on. This is the All-Star game...a game for Stars, not an award for mediocre players having an above-average half-season.

[Crew2323]

I voted Braun 125 times today (and wrote in Branyan 125 times too). We'll wait and see what happens.

[SeriesFinale]

That said, Ryan Braun is a star! Ken Griffy Jr is a star! Fukudome is well liked and well known from his home country. But I've seen nothing yet in the MLB that makes him a star and therefore worthy of the All-Star Game.

I'd argue that Fukudome is as much of a "star" if not moreso than Braun, especially when you add in the Japanese fanbase. They worship that guy in one of the biggest markets of the country; even though they lost the game, he attained mythic status for his Opening Day homerun against Gagne.

 

That said, I do believe Braun deserves it more.

[lcbj68c]

Oh, I think he is very well loved. But I don't think he is a star.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Ken Griffey Jr. was a star. Now, he's a stiff. Fukudome has nearly about as much claim to "stardom" as Braun, if you're just talking about fame. In terms of established performance level, Braun has an edge because last year he was spectacular and this year they're close (Braun trails currently trails in GPA .277 to .272).

 

None of these guys really belongs anywhere near the discussion in terms of the best 3 OF so far this year. I'm not a guy who would confine himself to this year's stats to figure out who to vote for -- that's how you end up voting for lousy players having flukish career years, like Xavier Nady or Ryan Ludwick. But I tend to want to vote for the guys who are having the best seasons among those with established performance levels worthy of being an all-star. In the case of really young players like Braun, I absolutely would look at minor league stats (in the form of MLEs) if I needed to get a better handle on how good they actually were.

 

In the NL this year, as of right now (and really, since the Braun for AS push began), the 3 OF that best meet that description are Pat Burrell, Jason Bay, and the criminally underappreciated Brian Giles. I'd vote for those 3, if I cared enough and didn't realize that I would be utterly wasting my votes. The first 2 will probably be reserves, Giles won't even sniff the game, which stinks.

 

4-6 would be Matt Holliday, Carlos Beltran, and Adam Dunn. Hart and Braun are in the group just below that, with Fukudome, Carlos Lee, Aaron Rowand, and maybe Rick Ankiel. Vote for them if you want, you're not being ridiculous by doing so, but you are seeing the world through homer-tinted glasses.

[endaround]

I think you're selling McClouth short. A 26 year old who had an 810 OPS last year doesn't look that flukey.

[lcbj68c]

Fukudome has nearly about as much claim to "stardom" as Braun, if you're just talking about fame.

 

I'm not talking about Fame. I'm talking about being a superstar on the baseball field. I dont care that they may erect a statute in his honor somewhere in some country that the MLB does not currently play in.

 

I dont even place any votes. But I do enjoy watching the All-Star Game, because I enjoy seeing the "Stars" of the Game. While I believe KGJ's game is certainly stiff, he certainly still has star appeal? You think a great majority of those votes are from Cincinnati fans, yet Adam Dunn gets no love? Absolutely not. America, as a whole, still believes KGJ has star appeal and they want to see him in the All-Star Game. Nevermind the fact that his half-season is not better statistically then Aaron Rowand, Rick Ankiel, or whatever other schmuck the nation has no desire to see swing a bat in the All-Star Game. Hence, If I did vote, I would vote not based upon statistics at all, but rather, who'd excite me to watch swing a bat. Therefore, Ryan Braun...easily over Koskue Fukudome.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I think you're selling McClouth short. A 26 year old who had an 810 OPS last year doesn't look that flukey.

 

I might be. His age 23 and age 24 seasons were pretty poor though, and his career OPS+ is still only 106, despite the year he's having. His minor league numbers are nothing special, but they're not terrible, and he had good doubles power, which often turns into legit HR power as a hitter matures (as has seemed to be the case here). He'd get a CF positional bonus, but I'm not sure he's really a capable defender there -- I think he's playing that position because he's the least terrible option the Pirates have (Bay and Nady are obviously not CFers).

 

I confess, I dismissed him in the same stroke as I dismissed Nady, and that may not have been fair. I still need to see more from him to be convinced that he deserves an all-star vote, but I wouldn't think anybody was crazy for disagreeing, even assuming they had the same voting philosophy as me.

[lcbj68c]

McClouth, a star? :Sigh: This is why I think it is silly to reward All-Star berths on statistics. Especially only statistics from half a season. Nate McClouth, a star? Really?

 

See here's the deal, for me personally. I am going to shell out hundreds of dollars to attend an All-Star Game, I do not want to see Nate McClouth roaming the outfield over Ryan Braun. And that's not, as it seems to be claimed, through homer-tinted goggles. Ask 90% of baseball fans all over America and I'm sure the answer to the questions, Who is the Star? , Who do you want to watch play?, and the answer is Ryan Braun. The All-Star Game should be a reflection of fan popularity and star appeal mixed with quantifiable results. (For Example, Pujols should not make the game if he tears his leg off in Game #1 and sits the DL all year). Simply because a player has a nicer OBP over the previous 80 games should not be an argument for making the All-Star Game. If I were a Pirates Fan, I don't think I could look at myself in the mirror with a straight face and claim, I'm gonna go buy a pair of tickets to the Pirates game tonight because I want to watch Nate McClouth roam the outfield. If Pirates fans can't even say that, why should the Baseball Nation as a whole want to watch him in a game designed to bring out the stars?

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I agree that it is silly to hand out AS appearances based on half-seasons. But the fact that 90% of baseball fans believe something does not make that thing correct, nor does the fact that 90% of baseball fans want to see something make it fair or just. I think that it is possible to objectively decide who are the best performing players that are actually good players, and I think those guys should play in the AS game.

 

You think it would be a farce to have Nate McLouth start in the AS game - I see your point. Personally, I wouldn't vote for him this year. But if he finishes the year hitting about as well as he is now, and puts up a similar season next year, I'll feel a bit like a shmuck for being dismissive of his first half numbers.

 

I think that it is even more of a farce that the mould'ring corpse of Ken Griffey Jr. gets to have one more shining moment in the sun. Especially given that this exhibition decides who gets HF advantage in the WS. I think that both of the leagues now have a responsibility to their playoff-contending teams to ensure that the participants in the game are at least good players. I do not hesitate for a second in saying that Nate McLouth is currently a vastly superior player to Ken Griffey Jr.

 

That said, I still wouldn't vote for him. I would vote for Burrell, Bay, and Giles. Beltran is next on my list. If I could hand out AS appearances by executive fiat, I'd make Beltran a starter (because Giles in CF does not give the NL the best chance of winning the game) with Burrell and Giles and I'd make sure that Bay was one of the reserves.