Platoon Dave Bush

[scrapiron]

I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but I think it might be time for a platoon in the rotation. I have no problem with Bush pitching at Miller Park, as he has been a more than credible pitcher at home for his career in Milwaukee. But Bush's road stats throughout in his career in Milwaukee are just awful, and we are looking at over two to three years of starts here.

 

I was wondering if it would be doable with Bush pitching every time his position come up at home, but Villy pitching every time the slot comes up away. It doesn't have to be Villanueva, just throwing out a name that is already on the roster that is already "stretched out" and has had some success starting.

 

Would that be practical? Would they need to bring up another arm for the pen essentially now having 6 starters? I was thinking Bush and whomever could pitch out of the pen the weeks when they were "skipped", but I don't know how practical that would be or how the pitchers would adapt. To me its a matter of maximizing Bush's strengths while minimizing his weaknesses, but it terms or roster/bullpen management, it might be a nightmare. Any thoughts?

[zzzmanwitz]

As good of an idea this might be, I'm not sure its very practical. Bush has a career Home ERA of 3.89, his Road ERA is 5.48.

 

I'm not sure a platoon for a pitcher is possible. Maybe trying to skip over Bush on the road, but most pitchers are worse on the road than at home. Its just a part of the game, Bush seems to be more worse than most.

[patrickgpe]

The problem with that is you loose a bullpen spot because in theory your long man needs to stay rested to start on the road. Therefore there will be days where you are a man down unnecessarily.

[sgtcluels]

Bushy will just start PHing more often and get his confidence back.

[stoutdude04]

Its obvious why hes terrible on the road. People are stealing signs A LOT this year.

[CSOM]

I was thinking a different platoon... It almost seems clockwork that he can go 4-5 innings strong, and then blows up. Villy and Manny seem similar to me (sorry I haven't looked up the numbers to back this up) but is there anyway to do a platoon of a "double-starter"? Example: Bush starts, pitches 4, Villy relieves pitches 4 and then we go to closer? They are pitching fewer innings too, so not sure if they could do more frequently that way...

[And That]

Bush is what he is, so there's not much sense in throwing out another pitcher to tag team with him. When the Brewers get someone better than Bush, they'll just replace him.

 

I wouldn't object to the idea of piggybacking Parra and Villanueva for awhile to keep Manny's innings down, however.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

Bush is the weakest link of our starting rotation at this point and time in the 2008 season. I really don't care to see Yost keep using Bush like Yost used Cappy last year, just waiting on him start after start to turn it around.

 

With the Brewers 8 1/2 games behind the Cubs for first place, and 5 behind the Cardinals for the wild card position, the Brewer brass needs to step up and address the situation. I don't feel that we have anyone better then Bush who is MLB ready in the organization besides CV and imo he has done a decent job in his new role out of the bullpen.

 

Should CV be given another shot in the starting rotation over Bush ? What about DeFilice or Dillard ? Would the Brewers give a look at Steve Hammonds even though he is not on 40 man roster ?

 

Personally I think a trade is in order for the Brewer's brass if the goal is to make the playoffs in 2008.

[endaround]

Bush, 3 ERs in 6 innings versus the Twins A team mostly due to two bunt singles = DFA him! Seth McClung, 2 ERs in 6 innings vs the Twins B team=great find !

[RightFieldCoder]

Seth is obviously better because he got the "W".

I don't think the platoon will work simply for practical reasons. Bush is our worst starter right now. The problem is that we don't have anyone to replace him in the rotation. Heck, people would have dropped over dead if they were told before the season McClung would not only be a starter, he wouldn't even be our worst starter. And I don't think any team is offering a pitcher we would want without expecting Braun or Hart in return.

[zzzmanwitz]

And I don't think any team is offering a pitcher we would want without expecting Braun or Hart in return.

 

How about Fielder since we aren't going to resign him and we have two players who can come in right now and replace him.

 

I don't mean replace like hit 50 HRs, but LaPorta/Gamel + Pitcher > Fielder

[monty57]

The platoon wouldn't work, as you'd essentially need to keep two players on five days' rest, which would be near impossible, as both starters would need to pitch the same day.

 

They could go back to the old way they worked the rotation, skipping the 5th starter as often as possible. However, this would add innings to Parra (who is likely to be overworked this year already). It would also mean Sheets would pitch more. I have nothing to base this on, but Sheets' health this year could be directly related to getting a little more rest.

 

It also wouldn't address any road vs. home splits. It would simply mean that Bush would pitch less.

[jazzytrav]

Seth is obviously better because he got the "W".

Well Duh! To be a good pitcher you gotta battle and know how to win.

[mletto157]

He's just a battler... he's going to go out there and battle.

[steve11]

You know, Bush is really a gamer. He went out and got rocked in the first inning (giving up the 5 spot), but gave us 3 strong innings after that where he only gave up 3 more runs. You have to love the heart of a kid like that. I see him anchoring this rotation when Sheets leaves next year. - Ned Yost, post-game of a start somewhere down the line.... (it almost seems as though this has been done before?)

[pete]

Dave Bush is hanging around a 6 ERA. He's getting hit by people like the Twins pitcher, the first in his career. Would he be considered the C, D, or E team as far as hitting? But wait, ERA is a "bad stat" like wins and losses is a "bad stat." What's needed is the usual effort where someone pores over every bit of data recorded about his performance to find anything that might have a general correlation to good performance. Then we can all read the usual "look, look, his peripherals are good," he's a number 4 starter.

 

And remember, that clown McClung has "math" working against him. You know when the outcome of a formula condemns you, there is no question - the clown sucks.

[scrapiron]

Bush, 3 ERs in 6 innings versus the Twins A team mostly due to two bunt singles = DFA him! Seth McClung, 2 ERs in 6 innings vs the Twins B team=great find !

Geez.

I would say 2007&2008: 255+ IP by Bush and a 5.25+ ERA, declining K rate, increasing walk rate = the team really needs to think about looking in a different direction, but in case the Brewers can't afford to, they need to think of some other, perhaps novel options, that can optimize the strengths and minimize weaknesses of what they do have.

 

As far as McClung goes, 4 out of 5 very nice starts = a few more weeks in the rotation to see if he can keep it going.

[jazzytrav]

But wait, ERA is a "bad stat" like wins and losses is a "bad stat."

No one has ever said that ERA and wins/losses are bad stats. What they have said is that depending on the stat, you need at least a certain sample size in order for it to be useful.

 

What's needed is the usual effort where someone pores over every bit of data recorded about his performance to find anything that might have a general correlation to good performance. Then we can all read the usual "look, look, his peripherals are good," he's a number 4 starter.

Since you like wins as a stat, perhaps we could use it to show how Bush is a #2 starter based on his 12 wins in '06 and '07. I'm not quite sure what your post is implying.

[tomter38]

I only read the first few posts of this so if I am repeating I apologize, but the problem with platooning a pitcher in the home/away fashion is when he should be getting a road start and he is sitting, that will cause him problems. I would almost guarantee that his ERA at home goes way up because he is not getting his regular start every 5 days. Baseball players, especially pitchers are creatures of habit and when that habit is broken things can really go bad, or in this case evenworse.

[MJLiverock]

Dave Bush is hanging around a 6 ERA. He's getting hit by people like the Twins pitcher, the first in his career. Would he be considered the C, D, or E team as far as hitting? But wait, ERA is a "bad stat" like wins and losses is a "bad stat." What's needed is the usual effort where someone pores over every bit of data recorded about his performance to find anything that might have a general correlation to good performance. Then we can all read the usual "look, look, his peripherals are good," he's a number 4 starter.

 

And remember, that clown McClung has "math" working against him. You know when the outcome of a formula condemns you, there is no question - the clown sucks.

 

I am sure someone is working up a Dave Bush is just suffering from just bad luck post right now.

[Blindcheck]

If Platoon is a fancy word for optioning him to Nashville....than I am all for it.

[kiwi brewer]

dave bush is simply, clearly just suffering from bad luck right now.

 

sorry, had to.

 

this brings up the mid-june question for our Brew Crew and fanbase...

 

so are we officially BUYERS in the next month?

 

(should this be a new "buyers or sellers?" thread or does one already exist?)

[Ennder]

Since roughly the all star break last year Bush has pitched much worse than earlier in his career. I can't say why though. Ks down, BBs up, GB% down. Pretty much worse in every area. ERA doesn't really show it from his splits last year but the first half stats were luck influenced and the 2nd half stats were just bad and his 2008 stats so far are deserved according to his peripherals.

 

As much as people like to joke about it, the stats guy on this forum do not use stats as a tool to protect the players on the team from criticism. It is simply how we evaluate players in general.

[logan82]

How about a rotation of

 

Sheets

Suppan

Bush/McClung/Villy

Parra

McClung/Bush/Villy

 

where the pitcher is pinch-hit for on the third and 5th days? Not my idea, it is in The Book. Basically another way to optimize a lineup,

[istanbultaye]

That'd certainly be interesting to try. But, what if one of them gets blown up on entering the game? Then, not only is the 3 headed starter compromised, but the bullpens is short one arm from the 3rd addition for 2 rotation spots.