Can we give credit to Yost/Melvin about Seth McClung?

[rousieboy]

"My mechanics have always been fine, it's just mentally, a mindset of just really not trying to overthrow that's gotten me where I am right now"

 

Maybe a tired arm is good for better movement, better control, realization of pacing oneself and doing what Derrick could not...

 

as a #5 pitcher i have seen worse...I don't know if kudos go to GM DM or Yost cause they had no choice really....but so far, so good.

[giffted1]

McClung has really been a nice story. He seemed genuinely thrilled to make the team, and he's been much better than anyone expected. Most of the credit goes to Seth, but some has to go to Yost/Melvin for giving him a chance. Seth was by no means a lock to make the team, and I think most people were scratching their heads when they heard McClung was moving to the rotation, but it has worked out well so far.

[homer]

"Balfour is now a key member of the Rays bullpen"

 

Not really. He's only pitched 7 1/3 innings this year.

[JJHardy7]

They gave up another 95 mph guy (Grant Balfour) to get McClung.

 

Did he throw that hard? I thought he was more low 90s, but I obviously might be wrong here.

[twobrewers]

You can't teach velocity. That said, you don't give up on guys that throw 95 until you absolutely have to.

Or in Yost's case - 1 year after you had to. (See: Turnbow, Derrick)

[davego]

What Al and Joey said. If we hold the staff accountable for the failures, then have to give credit to the successes. Al makes a good point, have heard that the one thing you really can't teach is pop on a fastball. Like you can't teach a player to run fast or jump higher. Good for Seth. I was one too that was talking about DFA in April. Clearly Seth has calmed down his approach; like a Suppon-lite.

[splitterpfj]

Certainly credit goes to Melvin for bringing the guy in, and sticking with him. McClung was an easy choice to be cut during the spring, his career numbers had been terrible to that point, but they saw something, so they stuck with him.

 

Who knows how long McClung can do this, but I certainly think Doug Melvin and Mike Maddux deserve credit for getting him, and then helping him - he's helping the team right now.

[trwi7]

Did he throw that hard? I thought he was more low 90s, but I obviously might be wrong here.

 

According to his player page on fangraphs his fastball last year averaged 93.2, this year 94.8. So it's not a stretch to assume that last year he hit 95 at least a few times and this year he is basically averaging 95.

[Fatter than Joey]

Did he throw that hard? I thought he was more low 90s, but I obviously might be wrong here.

 

Balfour did, that was why I was sad to see him go -- he has always had good K/9 numbers

[owbc]

If you don't credit Yost/Melvin for McClung's success, then you can't blame Yost/Melvin for Gagne's lack of success.

[Fatter than Joey]

You can certainly blame DM for signing Gagne, and Yost pitching him 12 days in a row, -- but for any given day I agree.

[eanelson4]

Still not sold on him myself. He has done well his last few starts, but I want to see it for a few more before I give the big thumbs up to anybody

[jazzytrav]

If you don't credit Yost/Melvin for McClung's success, then you can't blame Yost/Melvin for Gagne's lack of success.

 

Likewise, if you credit Yost/Melvin for McClung's success, then you can blame Yost/Melvin for Gagne's lack of success. This could go back and forth all day.

[zzzmanwitz]

I think the whole point of this thread is to point out how quickly we are to blame our GM and manager, but don't often take the time to give them props when a decision of theirs works. No one is saying you can't get on them for poor choices, but we have to remember that every so often, they get something right.

[danzig6767]

The most stunning thing for me is watching Seth being able to throw 2-0 or 3-1 curveballs for strikes.

 

I was glad when the team decided to give McClung a roster spot as the last man in the pen simply out of hope that Maddux could do something to help fix a large guy with a blessed arm. Watching him early on this year, i saw some positive signs that he was getting better command of his fastball, but he really still had pretty big problems commanding the curve and only seemed to throw it as a diversion.

 

When he got moved to the rotation, my biggest fear was that having Seth throw many innings, he'd get exposed easier because in a way, he was a one pitch pitcher. I thought the pen role suited him best and he was doing a solid job there, so leave him be. Now the guy is out there throwing very hard to hit curves for strikes even while behind in the count, something he almost never did as a relief pitcher. To me, that's been the key to his success. As we saw at times with Turnbow, even if you throw 95, if the only pitch you can get over is a fastball, big league hitters will time it and start ripping liners all over the place.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Sure, as long as we can rip Yost apart when a player fails --- you can't have it both ways TWR. If you insist that we blame the players, I think it is only fitting that we give McClung the credit.

I think your viewpoint is that I think Yost makes every correct decision and always the right move. Well let me tell you that you are mistaken. Yost makes mistakes. I thought it was stupid to bat Cameron at #2 from day one. I think it's stupid that Dave Bush is still in our rotation. I think Yost does a lot of stupid things, but you know the difference between me and Yost? Yost took a team from the bottom of baseball to a winning season and another 500 season. I didn't do that. So I realize that Yost makes a lot of "dumb" decisions, but I give him the benefit of the doubt because he knows baseball better than I do. And you know what? He knows baseball better than you do too!

you can blame Yost/Melvin for Gagne's lack of success.

I completely blame Melvin and Yost for signing and how they handled Gagne, but for every mistake these guys make, they make a lot of good moves and and do a lot of good for our baseball team and a lot of people take that for granted around here.

 

Anyways... Maybe McClung can be our Ryan Dempster!

[pete]

Earlier in the year, I looked at the video of McC on his player page from back in his Tampa days. He did have a higher kick and a big swing of the arms. He ended up simplifying everything and that led to some really nice success in the bullpen. Now, he's taken the opportunity as a starter and is exceeding expectations including Yost based on his comments in the postgame today.

 

But I wonder where the coaching occurred and by whom. Earlier when McC or Mota were talked about its "Billy Castro" or "Billy Castro and Mike Maddux" and goes through a stage where its the staff or just Maddux and eventually Castro is never mentioned and Maddux is given credit for all the success. Maybe McC's simplified mechanics or Motas improved delivery are part of Maddux's excellence, but I suspect Billy Castro might have a big part in it all.

[danzig6767]

I am still waiting for the bottom to drop out.

So am I. To be fair I'm waiting for it to drop out on Dempster too. It just baffles me to see a bad RP turn into a decent SP.

 

 

And that's the wonderful part of baseball and in general, all sports. Each year is a new season and as much as fans try to predict/guess how players or teams will do based on previous years, there are always so many players who do much better than you'd ever expect or do worse than you'd expect. To bad for us Brewers fans though, it's the Cardinals who are riding a patched together pitching staff and a better than many expected offense to a 42-29 record and not us.

 

Braden Looper/Todd Wellemeyer/Kyle Loshe/Joel Pineiro

That had to be a frightening thought for most Cardinals fans entering the year, yet here they sit with the 2nd best record in the NL.

 

[Mr QL]

Eh, I always liked McClung. Been a nice surprise he has done so well. If he wasn't a 6'7" 280lb redhead, I don't know if I could believe this is the same pitcher. Really hope he can keep it up.

 

As for who should get credit for his success, the coaching staff certainly deserves some but in the end it's up to Seth.

[Tbadder]

The problem here is that McClung and Kapler are defying a career worth of evidence that they are fair at best and downright awful at times. The same really goes for Branyan though the argument is much more esoteric. The numbers say the current run for these players simply can't continue. Until someone disproves math I'm going to remain skeptical while very much enjoying and grinning and quite frankly guffawing at the idea of Branyan as an All-Star caliber 3Bman (what else do you call a guy who hits with that much power, walks suffciently, and hits .300) McClung as a major league quality #4 pitcher, and Kapler as a player who is obviously blocked by a contract but who is really a mini-Roy Hobbs.

[jwill535]

At this point the Brewers are playing with house money when it comes to McClung. I would fully expect him to a .500 pitcher for the rest of the year, but from where he came from that would be great. Dave Bush still remains the closest to being pushed out the door as he was in the beginning of the year, who would have thought that SM would have jumped him in line.

 

I think Seth's success is the exact opposite of Tim Dillards. Where Tim was average at best as a starter trying to hit spots and pitch. Now as a reliever he can just go out there and throw which suits him better. As a reliever, Seth would try to throw the ball through the catcher which lead to alot of walks. Now that he is a starter he has to pull it back a bit and pitch.

[lukevan]

Until someone disproves math I'm going to remain skeptical

 

McClung has been disproving it with each start. The "math" you speak of I assume is prior statistical performance but that evidence is essentially meaningless if McClung has figured something out with his control. His prior record may have no insight into his current true talent level.

 

Early in the season I would've been one to give up on McClung but I agreed with giving him a shot in the rotation when they did it. If McClung continues to pitch like a #2-3 guy, we can make some noise.

[Thurston Fluff]

If you want to take McClung at his word of why he's having more success than before it sounds as though it is in part due to the Brewers organization.

He is maturing on and off the field, in part because he thinks the Brewers are showing confidence he never felt as a highly touted yet ineffective pitcher in Tampa Bay.

"It's just more conducive personally for me to grow up here," said McClung, who allowed four hits and two runs during his six-inning stint. "I didn't mesh well with that group of players (in Tampa Bay). I came over here and I meshed with all of them.

"The coaching staff here kind of helped me find myself. This team and organization really allowed me to grow. It's not Tampa."

To hear McClung tell it, pitching coach Mike Maddux is the travel director, catcher Jason Kendall is the navigator, and he is merely along for the ride.

"I just follow the scouting report," said McClung, who credited the regular work as a starter for helping refine his pitches. "It's so thorough. It's just a different mind-set."

I'm sure some of that is modesty on his part but things like thorough scouting reports and competent coaching are part of the professionalism this whole organization has now that it didn't before Yost and Melvin arrived. For the most part I'm a believer that the manager and coaches create the setting for success and the players are the ones who determine the outcome. If a player is put in a good environment then, if he works at it, and has the God given ability he will succeed. With McClung I think all of the above are in play.

The numbers say the current run for these players simply can't continue. Until someone disproves math I'm going to remain skeptical

Does the math tell us players can't improve or learn from their mistakes after a certain age? If so what age is that?

[Jaylyn]

Seth has been a nice surprise, I just hope Melvin doesn't jump the gun and give him a 2 year 6 mil contract just to "lock him up".

[zzzmanwitz]

Seth has been a nice surprise, I just hope Melvin doesn't jump the gun and give him a 2 year 6 mil contract just to "lock him up".

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that. Its a relatively small risk for a guy that has stepped in like a #3 starter.