Bad vibes in the clubhouse?

[AJAY]

Interesting comments from Richard Justice (who covers the Astros) . . .

 

 

The Cardinals have 11 players on the disabled list in all, including nine pitchers (five starters). They've got the game's best manager and a great core, but losing Pujols and Wainwright changes everything.

The Brewers? Take a walk through their clubhouse after a game. There are so many bad vibes in that place it might explode. The Brewers are going nowhere.

As for the Astros, Reds and Pirates, the Reds are getting more interesting by the day, but they simply dug themselves too big a hole. So go ahead and believe, Cub fans.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=422691

[razzzorsharp]

I would guess there is a decent chance this guy has never stepped foot inside the clubhouse and this would be another example of the shoddy sports reporting that we have come to know and love. I will think this way until I see examples otherwise.

[brewizard]

I assume this will be even more fodder for the Yost-infection crowd

[AJAY]

I have heard that Prince Fielder is a lot quieter this season and may possibly be unhappy about his contract and / or his performance so far. I know Bill Hall is not happy as a platoon player. But what else is going on in there? Is there more trouble than we think?

[brewizard]

Is there more trouble than we think?

 

I hear the players don't like the manager. That doesn't worry me so much. What worries me is that they don't respect him either.

 

But I could be wrong. I've never been in the clubhouse.

[kramnoj]

There were comments in ST that Sheets had been quiet this year, like he was already in the process of removing himself from the team. That's just the observations of some sports guys on the radio, so take it for what it's worth.

[crewcrazy]

Just looking at the dugout shots during the game, I suppose you could get a sense of the clubhouse being clique-ish. The young guys that all came up together (Fielder, Weeks, Hart) tend to stick together, pitchers traditionally keep to themselves, and the veteran position players like Branyan and Cameron tend to gravitate together. I think too much is made about clubhouse chemistry, though -- you don't have to be best friends with everyone to play well. That's not to say a toxic clubhouse (like the Mets, for an example) doesn't effect a team -- if things are really, really bad and the players obviously hate playing with eachother, then there will be a difference.

 

The clubhouse chemistry thing is something that picked up steam after the Red Sox won the 2004 World Series. That team was incredibly close-knit and it overcame some pretty steep odds, so suddenly the national media thinks that it's a prerequisite for a championship, even though there are some pretty good examples to dispute that (most of those hired-gun Yankee teams, the Cardinals with Scott Rolen and Tony La Russa constantly at eachother's throats, etc.).

 

I don't dispute that the Astros have a fun clubhouse, though -- Lance Berkman and Carlos Lee can get along with anyone. The Brewers' clubhouse was a lot of fun when Lee was there, too, but that didn't make the teams any better.

[tomter38]

I don't know if I can buy this either. There are so many instances where you see the guys in the dugout having fun with each other. Kapler making fun of Prince with the ear plugs, Rickie and Ben messing around on the bench in Colorado, and yesterday when Kendall hit his first home run everyone met him in the dug out with a big grin on their faces. Even Hall who many think may be causing problems is always one of the first out of the dugout cheering when something happens! I mean if this guy walked through the dugout after the Tuesday night game, maybe that would explain it but I really don't think this group of guys are going to have extended clubhouse problems.

[letsgored]

FWIW, Richard Justice is a very respected sportswriter.

[Brian the Automator]

I guess it seems like a reach that because this guy walked through a clubhouse and got bad vibes, it means the Brewers can't win. There very well could be disharmony in the clubhouse, or it could have just been a bad night. Whatever the case may be, it's nothing a little winning usually doesn't cure... there have been teams that have won where players outright hated each other. It'd be great if everyone were buddy/buddy, but I think that's a pretty rare thing these days.

[lukevan]

There tends to be bad vibes in the clubhouse after losses. There have been many losses in the month before the last 2 weeks. I've no idea how Richard Justice can proclaim the team going nowhere based on the locker room after losses.

[Brian the Automator]

I've no idea how Richard Justice can proclaim the team going nowhere based on the locker room after losses.

It's because over the course of a 162-game season, sportswriters need to be pretty creative, when everything else has been exhausted.

 

[JoeHova]

Justice is not what I would call a conscientious reporter. Like so many of them nowadays (maybe always), they just report what they've heard from some random guy or their impressions and don't do the kind of research/fact-checking that you'd like to see.

 

That said, would it surprise me if there are issues in the clubhouse of a team filled with underachieving players? No, it wouldn't. Playing poorly can't be good for your attitude. Does "chemistry" matter much? Who knows? It seems unlikely, considering baseball is mostly one on one confrontations and players can't give a guy the freeze out like they can in basketball, football, soccer, or hockey.

 

Still, if it really is as bad as Justice says, might as well axe Yost and see if a new guy can help. It's not like Ned is a tactical genius, good chemistry was supposed to be his thing. Not saying it would definitely be his his fault, but it is hard to see any positives with him if the clubhouse is fractured and frosty.

[Pedro]

I hear the players don't like the manager. That doesn't worry me so much. What worries me is that they don't respect him either.

I think brewizard has hit the nail on the head, from the nuggets I've heard. How that translates into W/L I have no idea. But I would suspect it doesn't help.

 

[SeriesFinale]

There were comments in ST that Sheets had been quiet this year, like he was already in the process of removing himself from the team. That's just the observations of some sports guys on the radio, so take it for what it's worth.

 

That's strange, because literally almost every time they show him during a broadcast during one of his days off, he's on the edge of the dugout, shooting the breeze with all gamuts of the team, and usually smiling and laughing while doing it.

[TooLiveBrew]

The young guys that all came up together (Fielder, Weeks, Hart) tend to stick together, pitchers traditionally keep to themselves, and the veteran position players like Branyan and Cameron tend to gravitate together.

 

I can recall Fielder & Cameron chatting it up quite a bit, the Kapler 'earplugs' jab at Prince... I can't say that I can recall seeing Branyan & Cameron sitting together too much, but am not saying they never do. There doesn't appear to be any more clique-iness than other MLB squads, at least to this outside observer.

 

I second SF's observations on Benny. Though obviously I don't have any clubhouse access, so I have no idea of the 'behind the scenes' look.

[JoeHova]

You know, this situation reminds me of the time before the internet, when we were mostly dependent on the Journal and the Sentinel for sports news. It seemed like every time some Buck or Brewer got traded, the columnists would talk about what a well-known cancer and horrible guy the person who just got traded was. Well, why did you never mention that before? I wonder if something similar will happen this year (actually, now that I think about it, it kind of happened with Estrada, though that started really building before the end of last season). Somebody will get traded and subsequently scapegoated for the team's problems, but if we go through the archives of the various writers, I'm sure we won't find any kind of pre-facto column about why the guy (whoever it eventually is) was ruining the team.

[dadofandrew]

Heh. Sounds like another example of a writer using "grit" and "chemistry" to decide who is going to win.

 

It's all about runs scored and runs prevented. The rest is for the clueless like Tony W who tell folks who won.

[brettac1]

Branyan and Cameron probably got to be buddies by playing together in San Diego, because I have seen them hanging together quite a bit, too.

 

Plus, Cameron is considered to be a great guy by pretty much everyone, I think.

[RU Rah Rah]

That's strange, because literally almost every time they show him during a broadcast during one of his days off, he's on the edge of the dugout, shooting the breeze with all gamuts of the team, and usually smiling and laughing while doing it.

When he's not biting his nails -- literally. It seems like he's always doing it when they show him in the dugout.

 

[silversurferr]

Assuming for argument that there is a bad clubhouse atmosphere, what is the cause? Probably one of three possibilities: 1) place in standings because of general underperformance, Gallardo injury and Gagne's failure; 2) a few bad player personalities (Prince's attitutude about contract?) ; 3) Ned. Cannot do anything about the first one. Second one we are stuck with if the problems are key or talented players. But they can fire Ned at anytime. Of course, large doses of winning is the salve that will heal all wounds.....

[wisconsinfan47]

FWIW, Richard Justice is a very respected sportswriter.

The fellas over at "Fire Joe Morgan" have done quite a bit of work on Mr. Justice. Not saying he's necessarily wrong about the Brewers, but based on this small sample articles, I can't really take his claims seriously.

 

[TheCrew07]

Team chemistry matters, I've seen that first hand in football, I'm just not sure how much it matters in baseball. Baseball is the most individual of the team sports. In the field you make plays only on balls that are hit your way, and at the plate it's you, the pitcher, and the catcher. The guys still hustle and back each other up, and they are playing above .500 ball.

 

I'm not going to dismiss his comments in his article entirely as bad journalism, even though it may be. In my experience there's a nugget of truth in these stories, regardless of how it's spun after the fact. I'd feel better about the report if our beat writers would ever come up with something like this, but they never will, because they'll get frozen out of the clubhouse. To Joe's point maybe that's why you always hear about what a bad guy a player was after the fact, then again, maybe it's all just posturing. It's tough to say unless you're a part of what's going on.

 

I have wondered about the clubhouse myself quite a bit this year, with players underperforming, and I've also wondered about it on the minor league side as well given some of the things that have happened on the farm. Many of those underperforming players are starting to turn it around and climb out, JJ is hitting for a better average and power, Prince is hitting for Power, and so on. During the early part of the season the team went through stretches where it didn't pitch, didn't hit, and sometimes both. I'm not sure how you blame poor pitching on bad chemistry when it seems to me that the pitchers and catchers are getting along real well from the post game comments and quotes in the paper. We'll probably never know for sure exactly what this clubhouse was like.

[biedergb]

FWIW, Richard Justice is a very respected sportswriter.

 

Well I'm not impressed by him. He wrote an article in ST about the NL Central where he stated that the Cubs were the only team and that "Just last week, Selig ordered the Milwaukee Brewers , Cincinnati Reds , Pirates, Houston Astros and St. Louis Cardinals to take a year off and regroup." I wrote him asking if he knew anything about the NL Central (providing details about all teams) not knowing that he covered the Astros. And this is his response: "I live in Houston, and people here think disbanding the Astros is a good idea. Guess we know the sport a little better than you people." That's not an insightful article and clearly an uninspired response to my email. So I have learned to take his articles for what they are worth (hint - the Sporting News articles are free).

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Why am I supposed to believe such a statement from a Houston writer who has seen the Brewers a total of 9 times this year? Tom Handricourt has seen them almost every game and hasn't even reported anything of the sort. If you want to Small Sample Size alert someone, do it to Richard Justice for basing this off the one or two times he's ever been close to the clubhouse this year. What a weak way of saying a team has no chance to win the division. The Brewers have bigger problems than clubhouse chemistry. He could have at least talked about our bargain basement bottom of the rotation. Quite humorous.