What about Corey Hart?

[Roscoe Chill]

We've heard about the long term deal talks with Ryan Braun (obviously) and Prince Fielder. And we've heard about how Rickie Weeks is still a big part of the future (I'm not buying it), but we never really hear about Corey Hart.

 

At the beginning of the year, I thought Hart would have been a priority to sign to a long term contract because he was an important part of the future, AND his price would have been nice. Well, his price is going up...and fast.

 

But still, why haven't we heard about Doug Melvin 'being motivated' to lock up Hart?

 

To me, locking up Hart is more important than locking up Prince Fielder when you take in to consideration what the Brewers could get in return for Prince....or maybe even without taking that in to consideration...maybe even straight up player to player http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif.

[JJHardy7]

We've heard about the long term deal talks with Ryan Braun (obviously) and Prince Fielder. And we've heard about how Rickie Weeks is still a big part of the future (I'm not buying it), but we never really hear about Corey Hart.

 

At the beginning of the year, I thought Hart would have been a priority to sign to a long term contract because he was an important part of the future, AND his price would have been nice. Well, his price is going up...and fast.

 

But still, why haven't we heard about Doug Melvin 'being motivated' to lock up Hart?

 

The fact that we haven't heard anything probably points to the fact they're talking. I think Hart is going to sign an extension, but I'd imagine him and/or his agent is going to wait and see how this year pans out. The way he's playing as late it'll probably drive the price up. I also think this really has been the story of Hart's time with the Brewers. There was Prince, Rickie, Hardy, Braun, and oh yea that Hart guy isn't bad. I may not have this 100% right, but wasn't he the team/league MVP in most stops in the minors?

 

I do hope a deal gets done and he should be #1 on the list.

[lukevan]

Hasn't there has been some mention in the JS about locking up "other players", including Hart? Hart really looks like a solid and consistent player and could be our CFer for 2009 on, allowing LaPorta to play LF, with Braun shifting to RF. Buying out one FA year would make the deal worthwhile for the Brewers.

[sheetskout]

It's clear to see that Hart isn't the hitter that Prince is (or has as high a ceiling). I agree though that Hart should be signed. He's been the most consistent all year, and could-be a thirty-thirty candidate in the next coupld years. The flip side of that is when you take Hart's height into consideration, he speed is likely to fade fast. Now, you have a .290 25HR a year guy on your hands signed long term for a possible premium. I say sign him, but not for near the money or commitment that you'd sign a Fielder/Braun/Gallardo.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I think that the trend we're seeing is that it is fairly easy to lock up pre-arb guys when their first arbitration hearing is at least a couple seasons away. That's not true for Hart or for Fielder. If they just wait until this offseason and do nothing, they know they're going to see a significant pay increase. Braun was going to have to play this season and the next at close to the league minimum, so he had a greater incentive to trade a couple of FA years for immediate money and security. Security is still an incentive for Fielder and Braun, but immediate money probably isn't as much of one anymore. Their first big paydays are coming soon whether they sign an extension or not.

 

They could probably still get either player to sign an extension that takes them through their arby years, but I sorta doubt either of them would be willing to delay FA eligibility at this point. Without that concession from the player, the team doesn't really have much incentive to guarantee them a boatload of money.

[logan82]

There has been mention of Hart as one of the players they want to lock up long term. I think Melvin mentioned that Hart probably turned it down because he is so close to arbitration.

[JJHardy7]

It's clear to see that Hart isn't the hitter that Prince is (or has as high a ceiling).

 

I would disagree with this. I don't know if it's "clear" IMO. Are you saying that Prince has a higher ceiling? I do not think that is the case at all. Hart IMO has the higher ceiling and obviously provides better defense than Prince does and probably won't have to worry about any potential weight issues. I also am not saying that Hart should get a Braun deal, but something with less money and less years might be possible.

[Chio151]

It's clear to see that Hart isn't the hitter that Prince is (or has as high a ceiling).

 

I would disagree with this. I don't know if it's "clear" IMO. Are you saying that Prince has a higher ceiling? I do not think that is the case at all. Hart IMO has the higher ceiling and obviously provides better defense than Prince does and probably won't have to worry about any potential weight issues. I also am not saying that Hart should get a Braun deal, but something with less money and less years might be possible.

Considering Fielder has already hit 50 home runs in a season, it's hard to argue that Hart has a higher ceiling as a hitter. But, I think Hart is a very valuable part of the puzzle that provided consistent hitting, solid defense, good speed, and great character. I'd imagine he's on our starting outfield for the next 7-8 years.

 

[Baldkin]

If we could lock up Corey for 6/54mil that would be a steal considering he's 2 years closer to being a FA than Braun is.

[RU Rah Rah]

Not much flash with Corey. Just solid performance in all phases of the game. I hope the team rewards him for being the most complete position player on the roster.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I don't think the claim that Prince > Hart as a hitter, both now and in terms of potential, should be controversial. Prince is 2 years younger and has already posted an offensive season that Hart is pretty unlikely ever to rival.

 

If you add in defense (particularly if they plan on sliding Hart over to CF eventually, which most of us seem to think they will, and provided he can handle it), you could make a pretty reasonable case that Hart may be the more valuable commodity, but if you're just looking at hitting...I don't see it.

 

Look, I'll acknowledge that Prince may eat his way out of the league eventually, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect that to happen before he's 28, which is all the Brewers really need to worry about.

[JJHardy7]

Considering Fielder has already hit 50 home runs in a season, it's hard to argue that Hart has a higher ceiling as a hitter. But, I think Hart is a very valuable part of the puzzle that provided consistent hitting, solid defense, good speed, and great character. I'd imagine he's on our starting outfield for the next 7-8 years.

 

That is one season though. Has Prince already reached his ceiling? I'm not trying to rip on Prince by any means, but I'd imagine given Prince's size and weight there will be concerns throughout his career about being able to field a position. I'm not saying Hart will hit 50 home runs, but I am saying over the length of their careers, I believe Hart is going to prove to be quite valuable. In terms of reaching ceiling I'm speaking about the future projections. Since Prince hit 50 home runs last year do we think he'll hit 60 or 70 sometime? I don't think that is the case. I don't think it's out of the question that Hart hits 30 HRs a year and provide speed and defense -- two major things Prince lacks.

 

I don't think the claim that Prince > Hart as a hitter, both now and in terms of potential, should be controversial. Prince is 2 years younger and has already posted an offensive season that Hart is pretty unlikely ever to rival.

 

It is one season that Prince posted 50 home runs. Prince may be younger, but he is more of a "risk" in my eyes because of his weight. In the AL it would be less of a worry, but he's going to have to field a position for the Brewers and in my eyes he's not doing the job at 1B. I don't think Prince >>>>>> Hart is anywhere near true, but Prince > Hart might be accurate. I do think however that Hart has a better chance of putting up above average numbers and playing above average defense whereas I'm not quite that sold on Prince especially in terms of defense.

 

If we're going to bust out Prince's great year, why not bring up the present? Hart has displayed pretty much just as much power as Prince has this year in terms of home runs. Hart hits for average and is pretty good base runner.

[dadofandrew]

No clue who wants to talk about an extension. Offers were made to several players, and thus far, Braun is the only one who has signed. Don't know the situation enough to know why that is.

[TooLiveBrew]

In terms of reaching ceiling I'm speaking about the future projections.

 

I take 'a guy's ceiling' to mean his peak performance output, not a career resume. In other words, highest point he may reach (like, say, '50 HR in a season'), as opposed to best cumulative 'record' or stats. Glad that you clarified http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[JJHardy7]

I take 'a guy's ceiling' to mean his peak performance output, not a career resume. In other words, highest point he may reach (like, say, '50 HR in a season'), as opposed to best cumulative 'record' or stats.

 

At the same time though has Fielder reached his ceiling already? Is 50 HRs a normal expectation? I see a ceiling as where a player projects to be most of their career and in that span hit career highs. I don't think Corey hasn't gotten really close to his career highs and thus I believe has more ceiling right now than Prince. Ceiling in my eyes is based on that "potential" word and in my eyes Hart has a lot more potential to improve whereas I think Prince has more or less already reached that. Again given Prince's weight concerns to me it makes it more "clear" that Prince's highest ceiling might be short lived.

[Hate those Rodents]

As far as extending Hart. I read somewhere this week (TH blog maybe) that he was offered one after Braun was extended but that he turned it down.

[silversurferr]

Yost is still hoping to get Mench so he can start him in front of Hart. Probably already said, but if Cameron leaves, Hart could be next year's CF with Laporta in right. Hart also seems like a great guy; he is certainly modest. Sign him up and give him what he wants. Who is his agent?

[TooLiveBrew]

At the same time though has Fielder reached his ceiling already? Is 50 HRs a normal expectation? I see a ceiling as where a player projects to be most of their career and in that span hit career highs.

 

Just depends on how we mean "ceiling" I guess. No, 50 HR isn't what I expect from Fielder. I think he will give you 30-60 HR in any given full season until his decline. I don't know if Prince will ever necessarily hit 50 or more again (I think he will), but if his ceiling is 50 HR instead of > 50, I don't think it'd be a bad thing. I don't know if I could see Hart hitting 50 in a season, but it wouldn't shock me since Sexson got close. I agree that Hart is likely to age better, though.

[JJHardy7]

Just depends on how we mean "ceiling" I guess. No, 50 HR isn't what I expect from Fielder. I think he will give you 30-60 HR in any given full season until his decline. I don't know if Prince will ever necessarily hit 50 or more again (I think he will), but if his ceiling is 50 HR instead of > 50, I don't think it'd be a bad thing. I don't know if I could see Hart hitting 50 in a season, but it wouldn't shock me since Sexson got close. I agree that Hart is likely to age better, though.

 

I think we are more or less agreeing to a certain extent. My main point is that Prince isn't going to get that much better. Hart on the other hand does have the "ceiling" to get better since I don't think we've seen the best of him yet. I know it's been said, but Prince's weight situation scares me a ton. I just don't see him playing in the NL in 5 years and to be honest his defense is not good especially with an infield that isn't consistent. It'd be nice to have a guy at 1B with a good glove to try and make up for what we lack in the infield. Prince isn't a bat hitter or anything like that I just think last year he reached his ceiling. Now if he hits close to that every year obviously Fielder would be a better hitter than Hart...the question is will he?

[BrewCrewForever]

Honestly IMHO I would lock up Hart before Fielder in a heartbeat.

[danzig6767]

I'm fairly confident that it's only a matter of when, not if the Brewers get him locked up long term. The only thing i wonder about is i think the Brewers got a real bargain with Braun's contract and what if Hart's agent asked for more money than Braun got?

[trwi7]

I'm fairly confident that it's only a matter of when, not if the Brewers get him locked up long term. The only thing i wonder about is i think the Brewers got a real bargain with Braun's contract and what if Hart's agent asked for more money than Braun got?

 

If he signs for the same length that Braun did he should get more. They'll be buying out arbitration and four free agent years.

[danzig6767]

I'm fairly confident that it's only a matter of when, not if the Brewers get him locked up long term. The only thing i wonder about is i think the Brewers got a real bargain with Braun's contract and what if Hart's agent asked for more money than Braun got?

If he signs for the same length that Braun did he should get more. They'll be buying out arbitration and four free agent years.

I understand that, but what if Hart's agent asked for as much or more than Braun got during the same arby and free agent years that were bought out from Ryan?

 

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I'd offer Hart a contract for about 5 years and 30 million. I think that would be a fair deal.

[trwi7]

I'd offer Hart a contract for about 5 years and 30 million. I think that would be a fair deal.

 

I don't think that would even come close. You're not going to get a good player like Hart who is going to be entering arbitration and then buy out two free agent years for an average of $6 million per year.