Over/Under on complaints about MMP in the IGT

[Scooter1027]

The park levels the playing field, power-wise. In some ways it devalues the great power hitters by allowing the Jason Kendalls of the world to hit one out over that porch. Prince hits a towering shot, 410-415 feet to dead center and it gets caught with ease on the warning track in front of the hill. Richie Sexson hits it at least 440-450 feet off that darn lightpole and doesn't homer. Brandon Backe tomahawks a Manny Parra curveball and it lands in the 2nd row of the Crawford Boxes, 310 feet away. You're much better off just pulling/rolling over the baseball (like Corey Hart's 2nd HR), then actually driving it to the gaps (like his first HR).

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't consider the stadium a "bandbox" (that designation is for GAB in Cinncy), but I do see why some people don't like the Crawford box cheap HR. Fenway has it because of space constraints, Houston did it on purpose.

 

Yeah, that's my main gripe. The old stadiums that had unique dimensions did so out of necessity (Fenway, Wrigley, etc.). Houston did this on purpose, which just cheapens it to me.

 

What I dislike is that imo the park cheapens the HR. Those Crawford box shots should not be HRs. Likewise, when you mash one 400'+ into LC or RC, it should be a HR. I don't mind that they tried for creativity, but I mind that it's all so contrived.

 

I hated the hill until I learned earlier this season that older ballparks had inclines instead of warning tracks (like JB noted). Same goes for the 'path' from HP to the mound that some parks have (Comerica, Chase Field (it did as Bank One Ballpark) -- it's an historical nod, so I can dig it.

[pitchleague]

The thing about the Crawford Boxes that bugs me is not the fact that it's 315' down the line, but the fact that it's pretty much a perfectly straight section as it glides out to left-center. Basically, it's 315' down the line, 325'-ish to straight away left, and 335'-ish to left-center before it quickly and abruptly juts out to 390' or whatever. There's just no curve to the LF wall or at least better angling toward left-center. Fenway is 315' (or so) down the LF line but at least their wall angle out to about 390' by the time there is a jut in the wall in deep left-center.

 

And you know, people tend to complain only about left field at Minute Maid. Right field, to me at least, is just a ridiculously short. When a fly ball is hit to right, it almost looks like the the distance from home to the back edge of the infield dirt (over where a 2nd baseman plays) is way longer than the distance from that back edge of the infield dirt to the RF warning track. Like a little league field.

 

From what I understand, a lot of the weird things are in place because of space constraints outside of the ballpark. Basically, I guess they tried to do what old fashioned stadiums did--squeeze it into a couple of existing city blocks without disturbing the surrounding buildings. Don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I've heard.

[TooLiveBrew]

From what I understand, a lot of the weird things are in place because of space constraints outside of the ballpark. Basically, I guess they tried to do what old fashioned stadiums did--squeeze it into a couple of existing city blocks without disturbing the surrounding buildings. Don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I've heard.

 

Ok, if this is true, I'd change my tune a bit. The Crawford boxes are still incredibly dumb, though.

[Invader3K]

My only beef with it is the flagpole and hill in CF. I'm surprised no one has suffered a severe injury making a play on that thing.

[TooLiveBrew]

MMP reminds me quite a bit of Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium (Philly), in terms of dimensions:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/past/ADL14Clarge.jpg

(note the hill in the triangular CF)

http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/Diag/ShibePark.gif

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http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/clubhouses/stadiums/hou.gif
(MM Park here)


I know they're not carbon-copies, but the general dimensions remind me of Shibe.

[Phenomenal Smith]

What I find hilarious is that the park itself gets so much vitriolic comment. Yes, it does give up a higher than average number of HRs, but overall it's been playing as a pretty neutral park or even a pitchers park. So the notion that it's like the pre-humidor Coors Field is just silly.

 

Look, I like pitchers parks, so I would not have designed this one, but I've made peace with it.

 

brwsfan:

As far as "y'alls", it's sometimes used as a possessive as in "Y'all's team really knocked the crap out of the ball tonight." Is that the usage you heard?

 

Finally, pitchleague's post provides a good analysis of the MMP and that's an interesting comparison by TooLiveBrew..

[jason21nl]

2 home runs already that shouldn't have gone out..and one ball crushed that stays in the yard

[TooLiveBrew]

What I find hilarious is that the park itself gets so much vitriolic comment. Yes, it does give up a higher than average number of HRs, but overall it's been playing as a pretty neutral park or even a pitchers park. So the notion that it's like the pre-humidor Coors Field is just silly.

 

The problem I have with it is both that it cheapens the HR, & how it cheapens the HR. Even if it played further away from 'neutral', I'd still have a beef on this point. For every bit that a 318' pop-up shouldn't be a HR, imho there's no way blasting a ball over 400' should be anything less than a HR to such a relatively large portion of the field.

[logan82]

I don't like the hill and pole that are in play. Just my opinion, but I think a baseball field should be flat without standing structures in the field of play. I think the short porch is a good idea. It attracts good hitting corner outfielders who lack range.

[RobertR]

I don't like the hill and pole that are in play. Just my opinion, but I think a baseball field should be flat without standing structures in the field of play. I think the short porch is a good idea. It attracts good hitting corner outfielders who lack range.

 

It's probably no coincidence that Carlos Lee and Manny Ramirez are where they are. Could you imagine Lee "patrolling" leftfield in Petco?

 

Robert

[1992casey]

I believe the left field dimensions were constrained by the street and the desire to preserve the old train station.

[logan82]

The OF dimensions are always in the back of my mind when I think about the Lee signing. I always wonder what his other offers are and how much that played into his decision.

[crewcrazy]

I don't like the hill and pole that are in play. Just my opinion, but I think a baseball field should be flat without standing structures in the field of play. I think the short porch is a good idea. It attracts good hitting corner outfielders who lack range.

I've always thought that the only thing missing in centerfield was a moat and drawbridge.

 

[BCZF]

I dont think Minute Maid is as bad as the Phillies new one...I forget the name, cause I'm old.. And this is what you have to expect from a league that doesn't standardize field sizes like say, the NFL.

 

But what kinda kills me is the fact that owners lick their collective chops about how much offense the home team will put up, and never fathoming that the advantage benefits the visiting team as well..You'd think they'd want a "dinger neutral" park.

 

I'll never rant about a ballparks size/layout except perhaps Wrigley, why that damn fence over the outfield fence is allowed is beyond me.. To me you gotta live or die with your park. So in theory could the Brewers incorporate a series of trapdoors or bear traps in the outfield?

 

I guess what I mean is you should live and die by your parks dimensions, without adding impediments that could interfere with a players ability to field a ball without the risk of killing himself..

[TooLiveBrew]

So in theory could the Brewers incorporate a series of trapdoors or bear traps in the outfield?

 

Moats, trapdoors, drawbridges, pit traps... just make it the medieval dungeon outfield presented by White Castle!

 

Btw, Citizens Bank Park is the Phillies' new digs.

[Phenomenal Smith]

There are times when I wouldn't mind seeing Carlos Lee fall into a mote full of piranhas.

[valpocrewsader]

I think it was last year on this site where I first saw MMP called a pinball machine (repeated earlier in this thread) -- perfectly fitting. A ramp, a random pole, goofy dimensions, a choo choo train, bells, buzzers, flappers ... okay, no flappers.

[twobrewers]

I believe the left field dimensions were constrained by the street and the desire to preserve the old train station.

I thought part of the odd dimensions were a result of the roof.

 

Whereas Miller Park has the very expensive roof that folds back to the first base line and third base line, Minute Made has a roof that only moves in one direction as a whole unit. Hence, they needed a more square/rectangular share to make the roof feasible and affordable.

[brewjihad]

Also, the Astro in-park PA man is kinda unique but tends to drive me insane. If you've ever paid attention to it, you know exactly what I'm talking about... and it's hard to write how he introduces players.

 

That and the train whistle after every hit. The train itself is cool but that noise is annoying.

[berniebrewer4life]

To me you gotta live or die with your park. So in theory could the Brewers incorporate a series of trapdoors or bear traps in the outfield?

 

I believe someone on this board once proposed a Shark tank in Centerfield(anybody still have that pic?). I would love to see that happen.

[Phenomenal Smith]

From 2004-2007 Astros pitchers were only 5% more likely to give up a home run at home than on the road (based on HR/PA). So. it's not the chamber of horrors that the national press tries to shove down everyone's throat.

[brewjihad]

From 2004-2007 Astros pitchers were only 5% more likely to give up a home run at home than on the road (based on HR/PA). So. it's not the chamber of horrors that the national press tries to shove down everyone's throat.

We get frustrated that bombs hit to center aren't homers but little pop-ups down the left-field line get out. The park seems to balance those out, but I think it kinda defeats the purpose of hitting the ball far to have such an awkward alignment. I think it brings luck into play more than it should and I don't think that's a good thing. So there aren't really more homers, but there are more cheap homers and more blasts to center that should be homers.

 

[brwrsfan]

From what I understand, a lot of the weird things are in place because of space constraints outside of the ballpark. Basically, I guess they tried to do what old fashioned stadiums did--squeeze it into a couple of existing city blocks without disturbing the surrounding buildings. Don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I've heard.

One side of the stadium does have a fairly busy street, but the other side has an almost "ghetto" type area. It seriously is like two different worlds (from one side of the stadium to the other). I find it hard to believe that they were all that concerned about a rather dumpy area, I'm sure they easily could have bought out some of the bail bonds buildings that are there.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[jeffy]

From aerial views here: http://www.virtualbirdseye.com/2008/04/13/houston-astros-minute-maid-park-aerial-view/

it sure does not seem like space constraints were an issue. In any case they had the option to just not stick those "Crawford box" seats there add add some additional seats elsewhere (CF, for example). As someone else posted, it is not so much the 315 down the line that is the problem, it is that it is ridiculously short (what is it maybe 325 or 330 ft) across most of left, until the wall suddenly drops back 362.