"TH isn't hard enough on Yost"

[rluzinski]

Don't you find his reasoning for doing things borderline absurd, and something to be concerned about?

 

Of course I do, which is why I compared it to his own stupidity scale. But half his silly moves are the same ones his replacement should make, so I can't justify directing all my frustration at just Yost. Blame baseball for being so damn archaic when it comes to acceptable in-game management. Most managers lean heavily on "The Book" to try and PROTECT them from scrutiny. How ironic.

 

I am not convinced that Yost's replacement would be any better and fact depresses me.

[kramnoj]

to say that being a beat writer is stressful is about the most inane thing I've ever seen here on this board. If you think writing about baseball is stressful, you have no idea what the word means.

 

Do you think you have a good handle on how much work is involved in being a beat writer? How many hours a day do you think they work, or in a typical week? Being on call if a story breaks, being on the road for 2.5-3 months out of the year. Being able to write a different game story on an extremely short time crunch. Cultivating relationships with players, coaching staff, front office personnel.

 

Stressful may not the most descriptive word, but this isn't a job that's easy and it doesn't allow one to have much of a family life.

[DougJones43]

Blame baseball for being so damn archaic when it comes to acceptable in-game management.

I'll certainly agree with you on that point. It's so sad to see other sports (namely football), in which coaches are always trying to find out new and better ways to do things. The old-fashioned ideas get tossed by the wayside and the game is constantly moving forward. Coaches are always trying to outsmart one another with new and revolutionary ideas. If coaches don't adapt, they fail. In baseball, it seems to be quite the opposite.

 

Still, it wouldn't take that much fortitude to choose not use your "8th inning pitcher" just once during the 8th inning.

[wisportswriter]

Mr. Jones, for your consideration:
While I deeply respect your opinion, I feel compelled to say that I feel your thoughts in post #11, which I will not bother to quote here for space considerations, are a tad unfair, a smidge unfounded and ever-so-slightly libelous.
I suppose there's a chance that I could be wrong, but it is my humble opinion that the Brewers do not withhold any information from Mr. Haudricourt or any member of the media, no matter what has transpired between the two working parties. Nor do I believe - and again, I am but a humble poster here and could be wrong - that Mr. Haudricourt is afraid to write anything, positive or negative, about Ned Yost or any member of the Milwaukee Brewers organization.
And while I'm sure you have legitimate cause to write such a thing, I humbly suggest that it is just a hint of silly that Mr. Haudricourt is 'intimidated' by Mr. Yost. And I believe Mr. Haudricourt does not get his 'insider information' from Mr. Yost, anyway, nor does any member of the media. Those breaking-news type of stories, it is my soft-spoken opinion, come from sources outside the media room and/or dugout.
In summation, it is my belief that Mr. Haudricourt believes his job is to report unbiased and objectively on the team he covers, and - and I'm just guessing here - I think Mr. Haudricourt doesn't care about the fortunes of the Milwaukee Brewers to develop any kind of bias. It's more my belief that Mr. Haudricourt's job is to report, not give opinions laced with any kind of bias one way or another.
But perhaps it is I who am wrong after all. Who knows for sure?
Respectfully,
wisportswriter

[MickeyDavis]

I have never said being a beat writer is easy. It was the term stressful I found to be extremely inaccurate.

 

I find Haudricourt to be an average writer. If you watch the game and listen to Ned's post game press conference you will have everything that TH will write. He rarely adds anything else. Witrado must having something on Howard to get a beat writer gig. He's horrible.

[wisportswriter]

Mickey:

Ask me or my wife if being a sportswriter is stressful.

And all I do is cover preps and small colleges in Dubuque, IA, and southwest Wisconsin.

I promise you, TH's job is plenty stressful.

 

As stressful as a paramedic or fireman? Of course not.

But as TooLive pointed out so well, that would be a pretty short list, wouldn't it? If that's the standard, there are only about 5 stressful jobs in the world.

[kramnoj]

I have never said being a beat writer is easy. It was the term stressful I found to be extremely inaccurate.

 

Well, if something isn't easy, doesn't that imply that there's a certain amount of stress involved? Besides, stress is often more about the individual than the job. Being an air-traffic controller or a 911 dispatcher would be incredibly stressful for many, but for the right individual, they can handle the job better.

 

I doubt that TH finds his job stressful in that he's constantly worrying about his job security. But he is under pressure to find things to blog about, soemthing that writers didn't have to do years ago. That alone adds stress to his job, especially considering how much flak he got for the Yost firing issue.

[MickeyDavis]

I guess if your job stresses you out that makes it stressful. I just rarely read anything TH writes that I didn't already know by watching the game myself. Read his "game report" from last night's game. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=759581 It's pathetic. And it's the same every game. I don't care of TH is "tough" on Yost or not, I just want some decent reporting and we don't have that with the MJS.

[1992casey]

Honestly, I think trying to judge the stress level of one job relative to another is fruitless. Most any job has its stressors, and individuals react differently.

[MickeyDavis]

But he is under pressure to find things to blog about, soemthing that writers didn't have to do years ago. That alone adds stress to his job, especially considering how much flak he got for the Yost firing issue.

I agree about blogging in general. BUT, except for the whole Yost being fired thing, TH's (and AW's) blogs mostly consist of posting the lineup for the game and announcing player moves.

 

[Brewer Killa]

DougJones43 wrote:

Still, it wouldn't take that much fortitude to choose not use your "8th inning pitcher" just once during the 8th inning.

These comments are the things I question most when reading people who simply bash yost no matter what he does. He doesn't use Mota in every 8th inning. I believe the number of times was already discussed before. When Riske and Gagne were healthy he used Torres as an 8th inning guy as well. That option was not there now. So either you haven't seen enough games or just want to rag on Yost. The blanket statement above is simply not true.

 

[kramnoj]

I just rarely read anything TH writes that I didn't already know by watching the game myself.

 

So there are times that he writes something you didn't know. That's his job, and it sounds like he is successful. A game report isn't really intended for someone who watched the game and could watch the post-game. If you don't get anything out of those, it's hard to blame TH for that.

 

Read his "game report" from last night's game.

 

Losing an hour because of the time difference makes it even harder to produce quality work before the deadline.

 

don't care of TH is "tough" on Yost or not, I just want some decent reporting and we don't have that with the MJS.

 

What are the things that you feel that you are missing that the JS and TH specifically should be providing to you?

[DougJones43]

I feel your thoughts in post #11, which I will not bother to quote here for space considerations, are a tad unfair, a smidge unfounded and ever-so-slightly libelous

Libelous? Seems a bit overdramatic for a theory stated on a message board.

 

it is my humble opinion that the Brewers do not withhold any information from Mr. Haudricourt or any member of the media, no matter what has transpired between the two working parties. Nor do I believe...that Mr. Haudricourt is afraid to write anything, positive or negative, about Ned Yost or any member of the Milwaukee Brewers organization.

Tom's job is totally reliant on the accessibility he has to Melvin and Yost. If they decide to start declining interviews, not returning phone calls, giving him less quotes, not letting him be one of the first to know things, etc., it would be a blow to his ability to write articles. And if you don't think that accessibility to this type of information is often times contingent on what reporters are writing/saying about them, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I humbly suggest that it is just a hint of silly that Mr. Haudricourt is 'intimidated' by Mr. Yost.

I don't think it's silly at all. It sure seems like he has been tip-toeing around directly criticizing Ned for 5+ years now. It appears as though he takes it personally when fans attack Ned. This isn't really surprising, as people can develop loyalty towards each other when they spend lots of time together. I know he probably tries to remain objective, but he's human.

 

He also seems to buy into whatever Ned says to him, and I think that stems from doubts in his own ability (and the ability of fans) to understand baseball more than Yost. He gobbles up the anecdotes and cliches Ned spoonfeeds him, and seems to trust that Ned knows "the game", just because he is aggressive and arrogant with his opinions, and he demands that nobody else understands if they weren't a crappy backup catcher in the 80's.

[DougJones43]

These comments are the things I question most when reading people who simply bash yost no matter what he does. He doesn't use Mota in every 8th inning...When Riske and Gagne were healthy he used Torres as an 8th inning guy as well.

Injuries have changed who the "8th inning guy" is. The fact that he always has a hard-and-fast "8th inning guy" still remains.

[wisportswriter]

Tom's job is totally reliant on the accessibility he has to Melvin and Yost.

No, it is not.

 

If they decide to start declining interviews, not returning phone calls, giving him less quotes, not letting him be one of the first to know things, etc., it would be a blow to his ability to write articles.

No, it would not.

(And as I already said, it would take something light years beyond anything that has happened between the Brewers and TH before an organization would attempt to ostracize a media entity. It just doesn't happen.)

 

And if you don't think that accessibility to this type of information is often times contingent on what reporters are writing/saying about them, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

With my 10 years' experience in the business, I'm comfortable with that if you are.

 

It sure seems like he has been tip-toeing around directly criticizing Ned for 5+ years now.

That is not fact, but purely your opinion, which has clearly fostered your thoughts on all this.

 

He also seems to buy into whatever Ned says to him

No, he reports what Ned says to him.

We have absolutely no idea what TH thinks of Yost. You may say you do, but you don't.

For all any of us knows, it's just as likely TH thinks Yost is the greatest manager in the history of baseball as the polar opposite. It's not TH's job to have an opinion - that's Michael Hunt's. TH's job is to objectively report, occasionally analyze and then let the public decide. It's not his duty to develop any opinion or bias, and I don't see it in his writing.

But people can read into comments and/or writing whatever they want. I have absolutely no doubt that is the case here.

 

And TH doesn't get upset at criticism of Yost, he gets upset at what he feels are stupid questions. You may form your own opinion on whether the fans' questions have indeed been fair; just know that TH doesn't get grumpy because 'his boy' is being attacked. It's because, in his opinion, the question was unworthy.

[bullox]

With my 10 years' experience in the business, I'm comfortable with that if you are.

I'm just wondering how 10 years of experience covering high school athletics gives you any idea about the intricacies of covering MLB.

[DougJones43]

That is not fact, but purely your opinion

I'm not sure why you need to point this out. Of course it's opinion. That's why I try to say things like "it seems" or "I think" a lot. You seem to believe that I'm trying to pass off all of my ideas as undeniable facts, and that's not really the case at all.

 

With my 10 years' experience in the business, I'm comfortable with that if you are.

Yeah, I got the part that by covering prep sports for a small newspaper, you now know all about the inner workings of every relationship between major media outlets and the teams they cover.

just know that TH doesn't get grumpy because 'his boy' is being attacked

How do you know that? Even with your "experience", you don't know anything more about what's going on in Tom's head than I do. Yes, my statements are opinions - but so are yours, even if you think that your job puts you on a higher plain.

 

edit:

By the way, aren't you the poster who came huffing and puffing about "libel" and "misinformation" when people were criticizing Tom's chats? I believe that there was a thread involving TH and how he would continutally answer repeat questions about Yost, and just complain about it the whole time. When posters suggested that he could just skip the questions and find other ones (instead of wasting the whole chat griping about repeat questions and how everybody was being unfair to Ned), you came in, guns-a-blazin', and stated matter-of-factly that none of us know what we're talking about - Tom could not just skip chat questions. You were proven completely wrong on that fact then, so maybe you don't know as much as you think?

[wisportswriter]

bullox and Jones:

Your posts come across as condescending. I was told that wasn't accepted around here. Maybe I misunderstood. Or maybe you have to have 2,000 posts. I guess I didn't read the fine print.

First, l'll tell you that you'd be surprised how similar it is covering sports from HS on through the pros. At the end of the day, it's the same job. Only the venues and credential applications change.

But if only covering higher-profile sports makes me credible in your eyes, I've also covered Wisconsin Badgers football and basketball over the past six years, and have also covered Packers and Bucks games.

 

Jones:

How do I know that? Because I know how reporters think. I know what our job is.

So yes, I know that TH doesn't give one ounce of doody whether Yost likes him or whether fans like Yost. I guarantee it. Whether or not you believe me, I suppose, is your choice.

 

As for the chats, as I recall it, I said only that we don't know whether they can skip questions or not. How the heck would I know how JSonline does their chats? My stance was we don't know one way or the other, so why not save the ranting until the facts come forth.

If they have since then, rant away.

 

Postseason:

No. What you're asking for is opinion. That's a columnists job. That's Michael Hunt.

A reporter's job is only to report the facts and let others form their opinions.

[DougJones43]

How do I know that? Because I know how reporters think.

That's a pretty preposterous answer. All reporters think exactly the same? You have the ability to speak as to what all of them are thinking? Please.

 

Your new stance of "I just know", doesn't really leave much room for reason or debate.

 

As for the chats, as I recall it, I said only that we don't know whether they can skip questions or not...My stance was we don't know one way or the other, so why not save the ranting until the facts come forth.

That's not true. I know it, and you know it. You blasted everybody for being uninformed and spreading "misinformation". When proof was provided that Tom admitted during chats he could skip questions and, in effect, answer whatever he wants, you tried to wriggle and back off your aggressive attack by playing a semantics game. You had the same omniscient attitude then that you are showing now, although I suppose that thread is long gone.

[wisportswriter]

How is it preposterous? Because it makes you wrong? Sorry if you don't like that.

And it's not a new stance. It's what I've been trying to get across from the start.

But if you want to go on believing TH cares even one bit about those things, go ahead. I'll no longer try to stop you. I've said what I'm going to say. If you don't want to believe me, fine. Obviously that ain't changing.

 

As for the chats, again, believe what you want. I don't know why I would claim I knew for certain how JSonline conducts its chats. Nor do I remember any wriggling or backing off. I seem to remember just bowing out altogether, at the point where I wasn't around long enough to find out whether they can skip questions or not. I don't think I even knew for sure still until you just posted it.

Either way, I don't have the energy to argue about a year-old thread about an online q-and-a.

[bullox]

bullox and Jones:

Your posts come across as condescending. I was told that wasn't accepted around here. Maybe I misunderstood. Or maybe you have to have 2,000 posts. I guess I didn't read the fine print.

You can't flaunt 10 years worth of experience as if you have done what TH has done for that amount of time when in reality you may have been covering whether Rusty McBeagle lived up to his billing as top high school pitcher in a Dubuque suburb.

 

That's akin to me saying I know what it takes to manage the Google network farm, when in reality I have been dealing with miniscule networks in comparison. I have no idea what it takes to handle a network that size. I can play around in my sandbox, but wouldn't know whether to poop or go blind if I ended up in the Sahara.

 

I didn't intend to condescend, but if you took it that way, that's your view. Worse things happen. And for what it's worth, you set yourself up for it.

[Bruce Ciskie]

Boy. Lots of nitpicking going on in here.

 

Bottom line: Haudricourt's job is to report on the happenings with the Brewers. If you want someone to call Yost out and ask that he be fired, it seems to me that you should call Bill Schroeder, Michael Hunt, Steve True, or some other sports-talk guy/columnist in Milwaukee.

 

It's not Haudricourt's job. And if he were to, at some point, call for Yost's head, his job would suddenly become much more difficult. That's just how the game is played.

 

And, yes, I'd agree with WIsportswriter in that it's highly unlikely that Haudricourt gives two craps what Yost thinks about him. I know that I've never really worried much about what the coaches of the teams I've covered think of me (nor have any other reporters or broadcasters I've ever known). As long as they respect me enough to give me the necessary access to do my job, I'm okay. I don't want to be bosom buddies with these people, because in the end it would probably make my job more difficult (coaches are hired to be fired in today's sports climate).

[wisportswriter]

Whether or not my resume impresses you, bullox, I know enough to speak intelligently on this. Like DougJones, it's up to you whether you want to take me at my word.

[DougJones43]

Boy. Lots of nitpicking going on in here.

Perhaps. I guess that when posters have a habit of throwing out bold "gotcha" statements, it'd be nice to see a little accountability. Whatever though, that stuff happens all the time, so point taken.

[saget]

I don't like TH's balding head. He writes like an old who's mad about his combs.

 

Something like that.