"TH isn't hard enough on Yost"

[wisportswriter]

First of all, the premise of that argument I've seen too many times here is all wrong. It's not TH's job to be hard on anyone; it's his job to accurately and fairly report on the team he covers. Praise when deserved, criticize likewise.

 

But for those who see TH as a company stooge, here's the early portion of Friday night's gamer:

 

DENVER - Sometimes, a manager can become the victim of his own pitching formula.

The Milwaukee Brewers' Ned Yost had used reliever Guillermo Mota 15 times this season in the eighth inning. So, when that frame rolled around Friday night with the Brewers holding a three-run lead, Yost made the call for Mota once again.

In the process, he removed the hottest pitcher in his bullpen, Carlos Villanueva, who cruised through a 10-pitch seventh inning with two strikeouts. The results were nothing short of disastrous.

Mota didn't retire any of the four hitters he faced, and before the flames could be extinguished, the Colorado Rockies had five runs that produced a 6-4 victory at Coors Field.

"Mota's been our eighth-inning pitcher the majority of the year," Yost said. "We went to our eighth-inning pitcher."

So, instead of extending their winning streak to seven games and building on the momentum of an 8-1 home stand, the Brewers begin their six-game road trip with one of their most brutal losses of the year. And one that probably wouldn't have happened had Yost stuck with Villanueva, who has pitched seven consecutive scoreless innings since being shifted from the starting rotation to the bullpen.

[SeriesFinale]

Extra, extra! TH vindicated upon one paragraph! Proof provided by fellow journalist, read all about it!!!

[DougJones43]

"Mota's been our eighth-inning pitcher the majority of the year," Yost said. "We went to our eighth-inning pitcher."

It's really sad that this is the highest degree of critical thinking our Major League Baseball manager can muster up. It's pathetic. He's pathetic, Doug Melvin's pathetic for keeping around such a simpleton for so long, and Tom Haudricourt is a pathetic reporter. It shouldn't have taken 5 1/2 years to start writing articles about how Ned manages like a robot. It's been obvious to everyone else for years. Besides, the only reason TH suddenly has the balls to criticize Yost is that Yost has most likely stop giving Tom anything worthwhile to write about since the "Badger Blogger" incident.

[AJAY]

I guess beat writers are not allowed to come out and call the manager an idiot. So I give Haudricourt credit for finding a more creative way of saying it.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Tom does a great job. This will fall on deaf ears, but people really have no concept of how much stress is involved in his job. He's passionate about what he does, and he does it well. Stooge? Absolutely not ... but if you want a stooge, talk to Tom's editor.

[SeriesFinale]

I also think TH does a pretty good job, although I generally don't like his condescending tone towards the common fan (although I can understand it after being called out over and over by them). I also think his balance with Ned has been pretty good.

 

I just think it's a little silly to point to those few sentences and say, "A-ha!" Especially when the guy doing the pointing has an obvious bias.

[DougJones43]

Especially when the guy doing the pointing has an obvious bias.

It's true that this poster has definitely demonstrated an affinity for TH in the past. We all have biases though. My bias against Tom and Ned is probably as strong or stronger than anyone who supports them. I admit it though

[1992casey]

Writers can call the manager an idiot (figuratively, of course) in a column or blog, but not in an article.

 

Tom started out great, but I think the objectivity necessary for an article slipped with this statement: "And one that probably wouldn't have happened had Yost stuck with Villanueva, who has pitched seven consecutive scoreless innings since being shifted from the starting rotation to the bullpen."

 

Tom was right on until that point. Subjectivity should be camouflaged in an article format; readers should be forced to work to pinpoint a writer's opinion. Part of that work is knowing what a person has written or said elsewhere. With that knowledge, the reader will be aware of the writer's biases when judging the accuracy of the report.

 

In short, I think Tom made his message clear without the last sentence quoted in the lead post. That last sentence should have been saved for a blog or for his Sunday column.

[danzig6767]

I never in the past cared for the job Haudricourt did, but i think he's done a better job this year. I think in general his chats have been better and i listen to him sometimes on Steve the Homer True's talk show, it's usually a good listen.

 

The Witrado guy is another story, i don't care for him at all

[wisportswriter]

I have no affinity for TH whatsoever, though I'm sure he's a handsome fella.

I have merely defended his work in the past when it has been unjustly criticized, emphasis on unjustly.

If you don't like a guy's work, that's one thing. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have only popped in to quell the occasional unfair attacks.

Nor is this about blindly defending writers. If you cared enough - and I don't know why you would, but maybe - you could follow my posts and figure out which ones in the state I feel do a good job and which ones I don't think are up to par with their contemporaries.

 

And I didn't say "A-ha!" I'd never say "A-ha!"

I'd say "Gotcha!"

[OldSchoolSnapper]

WI, here's my take on it:

 

People will call TH biased because when they do it, they're angry with Yost. People seek out opinions which support their own beliefs. Psychologists will say as much. Brewers blow a game, they think Yost made a mistake, they want to visit JSOnline and see a "professional" or "expert" reinforce their opinion. When they go there and see something that isn't an outright call for Yost's head, suddenly the writer is "defending him." It's the same reason people refer to certain outlets as having a liberal or conservative bias. Not that they are without bias, but we are much more likely to call something biased when it does not support our views.

 

The reality is, sometimes our views are wrong. Sometimes, the message isn't biased, we are; it's realistic and we can't handle it. I'm not defending any news outlet or TH in this post, just giving you my view of things. With most of the crowd, TH, or any other writer, can't win. He's damned if he does or doesn't.

[DougJones43]

WI, here's my take on it:

 

People will call TH biased because when they do it, they're angry with Yost. People seek out opinions which support their own beliefs.

I think there's a lot more to it than that. For one thing, many people feel TH doesn't really do a very good or thorough job reporting on the Brewers period, bias or not. The bigger issues though, are that Tom has a close working relationship to Ned, and that Ned and the Brewers can somewhat control access and the flow of information that Tom receives. Both of those things can be monumental in creating a bias. Many people wouldn't want to publicly write negative stuff about somebody they have to spend time with everyday. I think Tom is genuinely intimidated by Ned, and is afraid of losing whatever kind of "insider information" he thinks he's getting. We all saw the scolding/tantrum Ned put forward after the Badger Blogger story. That is going to have a huge effect on how hard TH is on Yost in his articles.

[jazzytrav]

Tom does a great job. This will fall on deaf ears, but people really have no concept of how much stress is involved in his job.

It's not that people don't have a concept of how much stress is involved with his job...it's that we don't care. My job is stressful, too. I bet TH's salary compared to mine is proportional to the stress that his job involves compared to mine.

 

No one wants to hear about how stressful someone else's job is when we all have stressful jobs of our own to go to.

[DougJones43]

It's not that people don't have a concept of how much stress is involved with his job...it's that we don't care.

And other people with similar jobs (like Adam McCalvy) are able to write good, insightful articles - so I don't see why Tom Haudricourt can't.

 

 

(pared back nested quote --1992)

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I was just addressing the the idea that fans always seem to have ... "His job is to watch the Brewers and talk to the players! It's so awesome!" People think it's some dream. I understand that people don't care. That wasn't really my point. I was just saying, all thing considered, I think Tom does an admirable job when it comes to getting information.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Sorry, but I object. I don't think McCalvy does a bad job, but he's basically a Brewers mouthpiece. Half his articles are about the Brewers running around town doing charity events. That's not a knock on Adam, but his job has limitations. He can't really write the best stuff when it's being published by Brewers.com.

 

"We all saw the scolding/tantrum Ned put forward after the Badger Blogger story. That is going to have a huge effect on how hard TH is on Yost in his articles."

 

Now this, I agree with 100%. Tom's rant on Homer's show was completely ridiculous and unprofessional. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, Tom ranted about people ignoring the fact that Yost is a human, and went on a tirade about credibility: Tom, YOU MADE THAT STORY WHAT IT WAS! Heed your own advice!

[TheCrew07]

I've complained about this in the past, and I hate beating a dead horse, but defined bull pen roles chap my rear. If a guy is going well, why not let him pitch 2 innings instead of 1? If he struggles to get through 1 then absolutely make a change, but change for the sake of change makes no sense to me at all, and never has. I didn't have anything positive to say when Mota came into the game, and I had even less to say when Shouse came in, in fact I was down right foul. I called my shot on Mota before the bottom of the 8th started, and unfortunately I predicted the end result of Shouse's first pitch as well. Yea it's a lefty/lefty matchup, but when you're a soft tosser that relies on movement, but your ball doesn't move in the thin air, you're just a batting practice pitcher. At least Shouse managed to get some some outs... Granted I'm still unsure how Weeks was 2 steps from a line drive and never got a glove on it, but every ball they hit off both relievers was a shot, there were no cheapies.

 

Bullpen management is the one area where Yost has always gotten under my skin.

[Baldkin]

Granted I'm still unsure how Weeks was 2 steps from a line drive and never got a glove on it

 

Weeks gets the worst jump on any hit ball of any infielder I've seen in a long time. He makes some great plays ranging because of his athleticism, but his reactions are that of a guy who isn't paying attention or is flat footed half the time.

[Invader3K]

I've complained about this in the past, and I hate beating a dead horse, but defined bull pen roles chap my rear. If a guy is going well, why not let him pitch 2 innings instead of 1? If he struggles to get through 1 then absolutely make a change, but change for the sake of change makes no sense to me at all, and never has.

I agree. The guy only threw ten pitches, and is a converted starter. Not having him go more than one inning was just plain silly. I really wish baseball managers would stop trying to shoe horn bullpen guys into defined roles, and just use whoever fits best in the situation. In my opinion, the guy who just used 10 pitches to get through an inning probably would have fit best.

 

[Brewer Killa]

I didn't have anything positive to say when Mota came into the game, and I had even less to say when Shouse came in, in fact I was down right foul. I called my shot on Mota before the bottom of the 8th started, and unfortunately I predicted the end result of Shouse's first pitch as well.

Well this is the stuff that gets me. Mota has been good for the most part and has had his troubles as any other reliever in the league. So I don't think you can just say he was going to be bad. As for Shouse, I simply don't know what to say there. He has been really good and won't even comment on that. You are clearly upset and blaming everyone involved. I just think Cameron would have made a difference and Weeks just isn't the best fielder and we know that.

 

As for bullpen roles, it is what it is. What don't you understand? Every team does it so this is not a mind blowing thing. It's not just Yost. Teams pay big money to sign setup and closers in the offseason and at the trade deadline. So they are going to be used there. Mota is our guy and if he is rested, he is going to go. Yost has other things to worry about when deciding on usage of a pitcher. If a reliever pitches two innings, he will then need more recovery time. He prefers to use guys less is possible so he has more options available for today and for the games ahead. But you can think you called everything and on and on. I guess you can read the future and should pick up managing so you make the move before it happens.

 

Sometimes I think people need to take a step back and look at the whole season. We win games and everybody is giddy with excitement. We lose and Yost sucks and we have every excuse for the players. We should be able to hold that lead. Period. This Yost thing is just out of control and apparently players would play better if he was gone. I don't see it.

 

As for TH. I think he looks at the games alot like I do and that pisses people off. He doesn't get to excited about things when they are bad and not overly excited when they win a bunch. It is a LONG season and the ups and down, even on this board, are really crazy. People jumped off and were not even on the board during all the losing. Game threads werea few pages long and very quiet. But now the threads are busy again and Yost is still to blame for everything. I think TH is tired of the same stuff as well just like Witrado when he answers his blog. I am tired of it as well and like to enjoy the games. Not just sit there and pick out things I would do different and reasons to hate Yost. That has to be a miserable way to watch the games.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[rluzinski]

Giving the ball to any reliever in the 8th with a 3 run lead is usually going to result in a win, so TH's comment seems pretty silly to me. Would I have rather seen Villy there? Absolutely. But on a Yost Stupidness scale, this one is pretty low, IMO.

[MickeyDavis]

Tom does a great job. This will fall on deaf ears, but people really have no concept of how much stress is involved in his job. He's passionate about what he does, and he does it well. Stooge? Absolutely not ... but if you want a stooge, talk to Tom's editor.

There are a lot of stressful jobs in the world. Baseball beat writer is not one of them.

I will agree with you about Garry Howard being a stooge though. Moe Howard, Curly Howard, Shemp Howard, Garry Howard.

 

 

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

There are a lot of stressful jobs in the world. Baseball beat writer is not one of them.

 

This is incredibly untrue

[MickeyDavis]

Please don't tell me you think being a beat writer is "stressful". Being a paramedic, that's stressful. Serving in Iraq, that's stressful. Writing about a baseball game and inserting various random quotes from players and the manager....not stressful.

[DougJones43]

Giving the ball to any reliever in the 8th with a 3 run lead is usually going to result in a win, so TH's comment seems pretty silly to me. Would I have rather seen Villy there? Absolutely. But on a Yost Stupidness scale, this one is pretty low, IMO.

It's bigger than this one instance though. Don't you find his reasoning for doing things borderline absurd, and something to be concerned about? I mean, if it was a 4-run lead, he would have left the guy who was cruising along pitch another inning. But if it's a "save" or "hold" situation, he feels that he MUST go according to his script, with no flexibility to deviate from the plan. I guess having a manager with ZERO ability or willingness for any type of critical thinking scares me for anytime the Brewers are involved in a close game.