Cameron and Kapler- Let the debate begin

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Kapler is the perfect 4th OF right now so if it ain't broke why fix it? We all knew Cameron was going to strike out a lot when we signed him. Cameron is helping the team more than hurting it with his gold glove caliber defense. Heck, I'd even pick up Cameron's option for next year. It's amazing how much defense is undervalued. We are talking about Center field, here. A good CF can cut pitchers ERA by a good amount. Those of you wishing for an OF of Braun, Hart, LaPorta next year better be careful what you wish for.

 

Cameron's bat will come around, and he's still hitting for power. There are bigger problems with this team than Mike Cameron.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

Dillon should be getting at least half the starts any time a corner outfielder sits. If I were managing, Kapler would only start for Cameron, but Cameron would sit about twice as often as Braun or Hart. You're giving up some OF defense going with Dillon over Kapler, but there is a ton more evidence that he might actually be a good enough hitter to deserve a corner OF start.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yeah I have no problem with Dillon getting starts in LF to give Braun a day off once in a while. That's fine. We have to have one of the best benches in the NL right now. Kapler, Dillon, Rivera, and Counsell fill in very well. Plus you have a disgruntled Bill Hall. Can anyone think of a team that has a more reliable bench at this point?

[rluzinski]

Does this have to happen every year? 90 AB is a hopelessly small sample size. To turn a career backup into a starter because of it is a recipe for disaster.

 

Thankfully, it's not going to happen. Cameron will remain a starter and not because of his salary. He'll remain a starter because of what that salary says about his future expected performance.

[iluvlamp]

To the original ? NO. No no no no. Is Mench available? Let Kapler do what he do.

[Kurt]

i like gabe too but just because he makes a nice catch or two does not mean his defensive ability is anywhere close to Cameron's.

[dadofandrew]

I'm too busy trying to recall if Yost should be fired and Fielder should eat meat. Wait a couple weeks, and this will seem just as strange a question.

 

Gabe should probably play a bit more until he cools off, and day games after night games. I doubt if he's more than a reserve 2 months after returning from his retirement.

[rluzinski]

Gabe should probably play a bit more until he cools off

 

How can you mock others for not being statistically inclined and then make a comment like that?

[Baldkin]

We don't have anywhere near a large enough sample now, baseball is a long season and jumping to conclusions over 150 PA is just not the way to handle a team.

What do you mean? Kevin Mench is hitting .385! He needs to get 200 AB's vs RHP!

 

 

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

How can you mock others for not being statistically inclined and then make a comment like that?

Is it possible to believe in statistics and the psychology of a hitter at the same time or is that pretty black and white?

 

That said, I would keep things the same as they are now in CF.

[Dragonbait]

I really have no problem with giving Kapler an extra start or two for Cam, a struggling hitter doesnt help the team. (See Bill Hall)

 

How playing more does tend to lead to getting off the snide, but in the meantime giving Kapler a few starts isnt going to hurt.

[rluzinski]

Is it possible to believe in statistics and the psychology of a hitter at the same time or is that pretty black and white?

 

As long as you aren't using a sample of data with a huge uncertainty to prove the effects of that psychology, sure!

[logan82]

I really have no problem with giving Kapler an extra start or two for Cam, a struggling hitter doesnt help the team. (See Bill Hall)

That's a somewhat different case since the player getting starts in the place of Hall is being put in with a platoon advantage. Branyan also has much better splits against RHP than Hall. This is not the case with Kapler and Cameron.

[Dragonbait]

No i understand thats really a bad example... but still, if Cameron is stuggling, it wont hurt the club to give Kapler who, as Yost puts it, "Is seeing the ball really well right now"

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

As long as you aren't using a sample of data with a huge uncertainty to prove the effects of that psychology, sure!

That's the problem with hot streaks. You can't really prove them with statistics with out getting a small sample alert. And that's precisely why you don't start a bench player for an 86 AB hot streak because it probably won't last considering Kapler's career .752 OPS in 2783 PA's

[mothershipconnection]

Kapler has been amazing relative to my expectations. While I'm not knee-jerkish enough to think he can keep it up over a large sample (though he once did in 2000), I'm totally in favor of giving him at least a start a week to see just how long that lightning will stay in the bottle.

[danzig6767]

Does this have to happen every year? 90 AB is a hopelessly small sample size. To turn a career backup into a starter because of it is a recipe for disaster.

 

Thankfully, it's not going to happen. Cameron will remain a starter and not because of his salary. He'll remain a starter because of what that salary says about his future expected performance.

Are people in the thread going out and saying that Kapler should now be the main starter and Cameron a once a week fill in reserve? Unless i'm blind, at most, some have just said maybe give Kapler an extra few starts a month. That's pretty damn far from saying Kapler should become the main CF.

 

[JJHardy7]

Does this have to happen every year? 90 AB is a hopelessly small sample size. To turn a career backup into a starter because of it is a recipe for disaster.

 

What's the big deal in getting Gabe a few more starts? I don't understand how there are even this widespread differences of opinion. I don't think getting Gabe a few more starts (1 - 2) per week would create this "disaster". The point of this thread is should Gabe be playing a bit more and the way he's played so far I say why not. It's not like he's going to be that much worse than Cameron and maybe it will wake up Cameron a bit. We have the same issue at 2B, but we don't have a player the level of which Kapler has played so far to give Weeks some time off.

 

Maybe start Gabe tomorrow night and just see what he does. Cameron isn't a spring chicken anymore either and I think keeping him fresh and getting Gabe some time might not be such a crazy idea.

[Tbadder]

Cameron has fair power, very good defense, an occassional walk, and is great in the clubhouse. Kapler has a funky-butt swing, very good defense, and is excellent in the clubhouse. So do you want batting average or walks and power? Seriously, this is the Branyan question all over. Do you want an established major league player or a guy who was never really good enough to stick anywhere else?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love what Gabe has done so far, but it seems like an illusion. The bubble's gonna burst, right?

[hauser42]

Kapler is a great 4th OFer for this team, he can fill in at any spot and doesn't hurt the lineup. Cameron has more range and a better bat than Kapler so I dont know why he would take more than the typical rest day from Cameron.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think Kapler has done enough take some playing time away from Cameron. Cameron at 35 was going to need some days off anyway, so as long as Kapler is hot, why not make it twice a week instead of once?

[rluzinski]

Are people in the thread going out and saying that Kapler should now be the main starter and Cameron a once a week fill in reserve?

 

The author of this thread said, "I would ride Kapler in Colorado and see what happens." Obviously, if you want to propose a scenario that gives Kapler less than a full time role, I will object less strongly but I would still prefer that he remain a strict backup.

 

There is no statistical evidence that I'm aware of that makes Kapler the presumed better player going forward. If someone wants to support their "Kapler needs more playing time" opinion with personal observation, I won't call them wrong. I just won't be personally swayed.

[hauser42]

The age comparison is a joke. Kapler is 32 and Cameron is 35, that is only years. Camerons body is use to a full season as he had a longer playing career, while Kapler was out of baseball and has not had a lot of full seasons in the majors. Kapler is good in short spurts but not sure his body can take the day to day grind of the bigs.

[JJHardy7]

The age comparison is a joke. Kapler is 32 and Cameron is 35, that is only years. Camerons body is use to a full season as he had a longer playing career, while Kapler was out of baseball and has not had a lot of full seasons in the majors. Kapler is good in short spurts but not sure his body can take the day to day grind of the bigs.

 

Couldn't you say the opposite thing and say that Kapler is a "young" 32 because he was out of baseball? And at least my thought behind it is that if you rest Cameron now and he ends up hitting like he's capable he might be better down the stretch and we'll need a rested Cameron in September possibly more than a rested Kapler.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

The age comparison is a joke.

 

I wouldn't call it a joke, but there are other reasons to believe Cameron might be in better shape like you said.