Kendall and Rivera

[lcbj68c]

As much as some fans can't understand and those aren't fighting words, Joe Hova...not everything is about stats and is quantifiable. You can't put numbers on leadership. You can't quantify teaching and knowledge. You can't measure friendship and fellowship. I suspect this thread was started because Kendall is hitting .250? I personally dont find anything wrong with the 8 hole hitting .250 when he brings all those other intangibles that obviously impact the statistics of people around him. You can't put a number on it, but the little things that are done that Estrada didn't do has a positive effect on the other 24 men in that dugout. Now, does Rivera's good at-bats warrant some more swings, absolutely. I'm all for him getting some more pinch hit appearances, but that's another topic all in itself. I will have no problem with Jason Kendall getting 155 starts this season behind the dish.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think the "calls a good game" -- Is largely overstated. I was listening to an interview with Kendall and he pretty much shot down the idea that the catcher calls a game. The coaches and battery go through the lineup before the game, so they know what they are going to do before they take the field.

 

In my opinion the most tangible intangible that Kendall brings, especially for a vet. pitcher like Sheets, is the assurance that if a pitch goes into the dirt, Kendall handles it well -- my guess is that pitchers feel more comfortable throwing breaking pitches in the dirt.

 

Throwing runners out has to do a lot for the confidence of the pitcher as well.

[JohnBriggs12]

Look Kendall handles pitchers fine, but so does the veteran Rivera (I didn't hear complaints from Bush after his performance on Sunday). Rivera is a respectable 4 for 14 throwing out runners.

 

Kendall was a 145-150 game guy when:

 

a. He was a .300+ hitter on Pittsburgh teams where he arguably was their best hitter.

 

b. He was in his 20s.

 

He certainly appears to be far from a .300 hitter playing virtually every day now and what power he had is almost completely gone. Rivera is certainly not going to hit .340, but he's got more pop in his bat. It makes no sense for Kendall to play 90% of the time if he can't hit better than .250 with very little power.

 

That's not to diminish Kendall's contribution, especially throwing. But let's be real. He has to really be outstanding defensively hitting .244/.327/.322 and maybe more rest will mean more offense from him.

[TooLiveBrew]

In my opinion the most tangible intangible that Kendall brings, especially for a vet. pitcher like Sheets, is the assurance that if a pitch goes into the dirt, Kendall handles it well -- my guess is that pitchers feel more comfortable throwing breaking pitches in the dirt.

 

Throwing runners out has to do a lot for the confidence of the pitcher as well.

 

Yeah, this is really what I was getting at. I think if you start to try & use PB & WP as indicators of a C's defense, you're in for a lot of confusion. I think when it comes to defense, you have to just watch as many games as possible & trust your eyes for the most part.

 

Jason Kendall, imho, has been & will likely continue to be fantastic at getting down in the dirt & blocking pitches. He seems very in-tune to the pitching staff, and though he deflects credit (which seems to be his style), I think the difference between his commitment to defense & Estrada's is very plainly visible. Iirc a Brewers player or coach said something this offseason to the effect of, 'Jason takes his defense just as seriously as his offense, unlike some catchers...', obviously (imo) a thinly-veiled shot at JohnnE.

 

 

if Estrada was really so bad at calling games or working with pitchers that he sunk the team last year, why would Ned and Doug have stuck with him so long?

 

As bad as Estrada's defense (heck, and all-around game) was in 2007, sadly, he was the best option the Brewers had. I don't want to start debating the 'calls a good game' thing, both because I'm not sure how much it does or could really exist or differentiate all that much btw. catchers, and because I don't think in any event that it's the most important trait (even just on D) for a catcher.

 

I'm sorry, JoeHova, I'm not dismissing your well-thought out post, I just (personally) don't think trying to judge a C on 'calls a ____ game' & PB/WP will do much more than lead to confusion. As much as I luvz mee my statz, there certainly has to be a balance of stats & scouting... especially when it comes to defense. There does not yet exist a stat that I know of (I readily admit I'm a stats amateur -- at best) that helps to clarify anything a C does defensively, and that includes RTO%, PB/WP, etc.

 

 

EDIT: Kendall himself was available for a pittance. Wouldn't getting him have made a much bigger impact on the pitching than getting Linebrink to pitch 25 innings if Kendall's effect is as big as people are saying?

I think his defense behind the plate would have made a larger net impact than Linebrink, yes. I don't know if his 'gamecalling' would have made more or less of a difference.

[bcf5575]

I think the "calls a good game" -- Is largely overstated.

I disagree. I pitched a lot in high school and college. both times I had a catcher that "called a great game" for my first 2 years. the kind of guy that is the team captain - a leader that everyone respects. the guy you NEVER shake off (i.e. crash davis). then, that catcher graduated and I had a younger inexperienced catcher to throw to. so I have personally experienced both sides.

 

This make a HUGE difference. it is amazing how much easier it is to pitch when you don't have to think. when you just get the sign and throw the pitch - to be able to have trust in your catcher to call the right pitch and to work at setting up the hitter. all you have to do as the pitcher is to hit the spot with your pitch - which is much easier when that is what you are concentrating on instead of worrying about what pitch to throw.

 

i think that having a catcher that can "call a good game" is one of the biggest assets a team can have...

[danzig6767]

JoeHova wrote

---

 

 

I like that the pitchers seem to like Kendall, but I wouldn't be shocked if there were complimentary quotes from the pitchers about Johnny at the beginning of last season too.

 

I mean, if Estrada was really so bad at calling games or working with pitchers that he sunk the team last year, why would Ned and Doug have stuck with him so long? They had Miller as the backup and Rivera and Rottino in AAA, plus any number of defense first scrubs could have been had for little return. Not having made a move would be inexplicable and grounds for firing both of them if the effect was as big as some people are saying it is. I mean, Kendall himself was available for a pittance. Wouldn't getting him have made a much bigger impact on the pitching than getting Linebrink to pitch 25 innings if Kendall's effect is as big as people are saying?

 

 

I'd be more willing to buy into the negative vibes from the Brewers about Estrada behind the plate as maybe being overstated if this wasn't the third team in a row that seemed to not like how he interacted with the pitching staff and pitching coach.

 

[JoeHova]

I'm not even saying the anti-Estrada things are overstated. I'm saying that if it is such a big deal, and if him being a jerk was so well-known, why did Doug trade for him and proceed to play him in 3/4 of the games?

 

We've got people saying that any offense from Kendall is gravy and implying that Estrada sunk the team last year. If those things are both true, why did Melvin take a chance on Estrada's offense? Obviously (I think) Doug doesn't believe that offense from a catcher is just gravy and he also doesn't believe that being a jerk is necessarily a huge handicap, or else Estrada would have been cut and replaced by any number of pretty much freely available good-d/no-hit backup or AAA catchers.

[Postseason2006]

Has Ned ever heard of pinch hitting for Kendall? Amazing today with a runner on third and one out. All the hitters w/ K in their last name K. Coincidence?

[JohnBriggs12]

I was out all day today and missed the game. On the Wtmj postgame they were complaining about Yost playing 4 backups. I assumed Rivera played but apparently not. Playing Kendall back to back in hot and humid Atlanta day games is ludicrous.

[BrewCrewForever]

I want Rivera to play at least once or twice per week. And mainly just because it is now the very hot part of summer and Yost is going to wear him down way to much for September. I almost think him sitting day game after night game should be concrete now. But I have a feeling it won't happen.

[TooLiveBrew]

I assumed Rivera played but apparently not. Playing Kendall back to back in hot and humid Atlanta day games is ludicrous.

 

I couldn't agree more. If ever there were a time to give him a rest, it's in the 90-degree heat of Atlanta. I'm worried that Yost is waiting to get another LHP to play to Mike's advantage, as opposed to keeping his #1 C from getting run ragged.

[southpaw121505]

I have been very pleased with Kendall defensively and how he handles the staff. With that said, I don't think the difference between him and Rivera defensively is so massively great that he should play every single day and risk wearing down, when you have a back up that has done nothing but perform when given the chance. More starts for Rivera

[JohnBriggs12]

There are 16 catchers in the NL with 200 or more plate appearences. Kendall ranks 12th in OPS, 11th in RBI, 14th in slugging and last in HR.

 

Yet only All Stars Russell Martin and Geovany Soto, both with OPS over .800, have more plate appearences than Kendall.

 

What's wrong with this picture?

 

Is Rivera any worse than the likes of Corky Miller, Raul Casanova, Mike Rabelo?? Of course not, but those guys have more plate appearences than does Rivera.

[Mr QL]

I see no reason Rivera shouldn't be playing once or twice a week. He's swung a good bat this year and it's a real shame that he only gets an AB every 2 or so weeks. If you're not going to start him ever at least PH him. He starts sucking than stop playing him, simple as that. Kendall can use some days off too. If you're not going to do what, why even have him on the roster?

[davego]

I'd think that the 'Crew could at least PH for Kendall as the situation might dictate. I also wonder why Ned couldnt make a chance behind the plate in the blowouts (like the last two Cubs games) like he will with some of the other position players.

[yount19.u]

Ned Yost needs to realize that Kendall will never admit he needs a day off even if he is dog tired. As the season wears on and Kendall's offensive production clearly dwindles, Yost needs to play Rivera once per week so they can try and keep Kendall fresh. Rivera has yet to disappoint this year, so why not give him some opportunities to help the team? His ability to stay sharp given his lack of playing time would also make him a nice option to pinch hit once in a while (like yesterday in place of Kendall or Weeks).

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't think what Kendall says he needs or doesn't need should mean anything. He's not Johnny Bench is his prime and Bench is the only catcher I've seen in my lifetime that I'd play as much as Kendall is this season. Heck, he's not even Jason Kendall in his prime. He's barely Damian Miller of 07.

[JET15]

Kendall is the best fielding catcher in both leagues so far in 2008. Last year, Estrada was bad but far from worst... and Kendall was right with him.

 

I'm with you for Rivera getting more playing time. Jason is going to burn out and we could use Rivera's bat.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for linking that, JET. In all honesty, it doesn't surprise me that Kendall rates out as the best. He's been great so far, and if he isn't the best, he's close.

[Postseason2006]

Kendall with one at bat with the ball out of the infield tonight leaving more guys on. He didn't help much at all.

[JohnBriggs12]

Since July 7th, Kendall is 11 for 86 (.128). During that time, he's played 23 of 25 games. He's had one multi hit game, 3 RBI, and 14 hitless games. The Brewers have gotten more offensive production out of the starting pitchers than they have out of Kendall.

[endaround]

Even down in the 9th in back to back games Kendall wasn't lifted for a pinch hitter. I swear Yost forms a view of a player after like two weeks and no amount of facts can get him to change his mind. Counsell and Kendall are OBP guys! Shouse is more than a LOOGY!