Redraft 2005 1st Rd. - Complete!!!

[TooLiveBrew]

Great pick (imho)

 

 

Value...yes, but how can you not at least give a token thought to Jacoby Ellsbury?

 

Ellsbury? At #4 overall? I like him, his on-base skills & speed (& D) are strong. But he's a relatively light-hitting OF (I don't think he's a 15-20 HR guy, personally). Yes, a CF, but I just don't think that outweighs a C or SP or even SS (Tulo). Just my thoughts. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[RyDogg66]

Brewers take Troy Tulowitzki. I'd feel better about the pick if he hadnt started out so slow this year, and while I dont know if he is the offensive player that he showed last year, I think he is good for a .280 average and 20 Hrs a year while playing gold glove caliber short stop.

[patrickgpe]

I would of taken Garza or Bucholtz only because the brewers have hardy and escobar waiting in the wings. Can't really argue with the pick after the year he had last year.

[zzzmanwitz]

I don't support the Tulowitzki pick, to me he seems like a player that is greatly helped by the field he plays on. Sure his defense is good, but so is Escobar (who was mentioned earlier). I would have taken Zimmerman, Garza, Bucholz, and Gordon all before Tulo.

[RyDogg66]

And the Boo's rain down from the Gallery! Jets suck!!!!11!

 

All kidding aside, Zimmerman and Gordon havent done all the much offensively to distance themselves from Tulowitzki and while both are good defenders at third base, Tulowitzki is a better defender at a premium defensive position.

 

I also considered Garza, Ellsbury and Buchholz with this pick. I think the pitchers are both very good, but I just didnt see the #1 starter potential or upside that you look for in a top 5 pick from a pitcher. I think they will both settle in around a high 3 or low 4 ERA and have a nice career. Id love to have them, but not at 5. Ellsbury I like a lot, good defense, great plate discipline, great speed, but his lack of power scared me away, as I see him more as a 10-12 HR guy.

[BrewCrewForever]

RyDogg I like that pick of Tulowitzki for the Brewers. I think best on the board with who went before him.

[RyDogg66]

Keeping it on the front page. If PrimeTime doesnt make a pick soon we'll make one for him. Suggestions?

[TooLiveBrew]

Tulowitzki... right?

[RyDogg66]

For who? THe Brewers just took Tulowitzki...I guess that means you disagree with the pick. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gobias Industries]

Toronto really wanted Lincecum in the offseason, so I think Clay Bucholz makes sense for them.

[RyDogg66]

primetime outta time, jays take buchholz.

[TooLiveBrew]

For who? THe Brewers just took Tulowitzki...I guess that means you disagree with the pick.

 

Ahhh... crap! No, it just means I was being an airhead. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/embarassed.gif

[Gobias Industries]

Alright, I'm gonna go with Jacoby Ellsbury. The Rockies have a really nice middle of the order, but Taveraz/Podsednik are not cutting it at the leadoff spot. Jacoby gives them a good OBP guy for them to drive in, and a good defensive CF to cover a lot of ground in Coors.

[lcbj68c]

You guys really made it easy on me. With the 9th pick, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, yes Devil Rays in 05' take 3b Ryan Zimmerman out of the University of Virginia and here is why. In 2005, the Rays started an aging, ok 32 year old Alex Gonzalez at third base and got a slugging percentage of .410 out of him. In fact, he had a mediocre glove to accomedate a mediocre bat, committing 14 errors in 90 games at the hot corner. While they had sexy options to most Tampa Bay Ray fans in the likes of pretty boy Jorge Cantu and the likeable Aubrey Huff, the Rays never had a long term option at 3b. But had Ryan Zimmerman fallen all the way to #9, he would have been a very attractive pick. Drafted in June and up on September 1st, spending not a day longer than 60 or so games in the minor leagues, Zimmerman was probably MLB ready on draft day. While the Rays needed pitching and in fact, have always needed pitching, there would have been no way to pass on Zimmerman. Hindsight being what it is, how about a Longoria & Zimmerman left side of the infield?

 

Ryan Zimmerman 3b Univ of Virginia

[danzig6767]

I think that maybe people are giving up to quick on Alex Gordon

 

Zimmerman is the better player right now and if i was a contender, i'd rather have him at this very moment. With that said, i still think Gordon will end up being a better player long term. He's got his OPS up to .771 this year even though his home run power hasn't really arrived yet in his brief big league career, but i think it's only a matter of time before he's hitting around 30 a year.

 

 

Ellsbury? At #4 overall? I like him, his on-base skills & speed (& D) are strong. But he's a relatively light-hitting OF (I don't think he's a 15-20 HR guy, personally). Yes, a CF, but I just don't think that outweighs a C or SP or even SS (Tulo). Just my thoughts.

I understand your thinking on Ellsbury, he likely will never have the power to carry a high OPS like some of these guys at the top of this draft. With that said, i think maybe you're underrating a bit the leadoff hitter aspect. In general, i do think a good number of baseball fans can put to much importance on the batting order because overall, the biggest importance to scoring runs is simply whether the guys in the lineup are productive.

 

IMO though, it's such a boost to an offense if you have a real good leadoff hitter and those aren't exactly in bountiful supply around the league. To have a leadoff hitter that gets on base at a very high clip for the big bats in front of him, being able to use his speed to play small ball if needed late in close games, and just having overall speed to run the bases on hits after he reaches base are all great weapons for an offense.

 

Elldbury is a young kid still and he might already be the best leadoff hitter in the game

[PrimeTime955]

Sorry I missed my pick guys I lost internet connection for a day there. My bad but you made the correct pick for me any ways.

[TooLiveBrew]

With that said, i think maybe you're underrating a bit the leadoff hitter aspect. In general, i do think a good number of baseball fans can put to much importance on the batting order because overall, the biggest importance to scoring runs is simply whether the guys in the lineup are productive.

 

I know the lineups are important, but there's still no justification in my eyes for taking a player that's limited like Ellsbury is with a top 5 (or even 10) pick. To clarify, calling him limited is not meant as an insult; he clearly does many things well. I think fans tend to overrate the SB & speed aspects of the game. Yes, they're important, but not nearly as much as power, on-base ability (a strength for Ellsbury) & SPing... not to mention defensive position relative to offensive production. If my team's GM takes an OF like Ellsbury #4 overall, unless the draft class was historically weak, I would be frustrated.

 

I don't think one can or should draft a player because 'he's a leadoff hitter' or 'he's a cleanup hitter'. That kind of thing sorts itself out as he develops. Just like I think it's wrong (in most cases) to draft for a specific positional need, I don't think it's a good strategy to draft on a lineup projection. Both instances there have the same fundamental strategical flaw imho.

 

 

IMO though, it's such a boost to an offense if you have a real good leadoff hitter and those aren't exactly in bountiful supply around the league. To have a leadoff hitter that gets on base at a very high clip for the big bats [behind] him, being able to use his speed to play small ball if needed late in close games, and just having overall speed to run the bases on hits after he reaches base are all great weapons for an offense.

 

This is true. I just don't think you should try to project what lineup slot a kid will fit that's at least a year or two away from even having a big-league at-bat. I think you should draft on tools & how strong of a player overall you think those tools will help a player become. If a player becomes a leadoff hitter, fine. If he becomes a #5 hitter, fine.

[lcbj68c]

I don't think one can or should draft a player because 'he's a leadoff hitter' or 'he's a cleanup hitter'. That kind of thing sorts itself out as he develops. Just like I think it's wrong (in most cases) to draft for a specific positional need, I don't think it's a good strategy to draft on a lineup projection. Both instances there have the same fundamental strategical flaw imho.

 

I agree very much with this sentiment. If you have the tools to hit, where you hit in the lineup will sort itself out. Take the Seattle Mariners for example. If Jacoby Ellsbury is the best player/talent left on the board, do they pass on him because they already have a guy in Ichiro Suzuki that can play the leadoff role. Draft for talent, roles will sort themselves out.

[TooLiveBrew]

To any moderator or RyDogg:

 

It'd make the draft list in the OP a lot easier to read if the BF.net picks were italicized in addition to being bolded. Just a suggestion.

 

 

EDIT: Also, I thought perhaps listing some non-Rd.1 players might be helpful, especially as the draft moves later into the game. I know RyDogg provided a link, but for at least my own ease of use, I'll list some more guys. I'd also like to point out that I have very little knowledge of any draft class, so I will readily admit that I am probably about to make some embarassing omissions...

 

3B/OF Chase Headley (SDP -- #66 overall)

P Kevin Slowey (MIN -- #73)

SS Yunel Escobar (ATL -- #75)

P Micah Owings (ARI -- #83)

P Will Inman (MIL -- #85)

C Taylor Teagarden (TEX -- #99)

P Jensen Lewis (CLE -- #102)

OF Justin Maxwell (WAS -- #114)

3B Mat Gamel (MIL -- #115)

[samwise]

I have had my eye on Escobar with the 15th pick. I think he is going to be a stud.

[Gobias Industries]

I don't think one can or should draft a player because 'he's a leadoff hitter' or 'he's a cleanup hitter'. That kind of thing sorts itself out as he develops.

This is a bit different though. We're drafting the players as they've developed to this very day, and for the needs of the current big league club we're drafting for.

 

If I was starting an expansion team, I would definitely draft Gordon and Zimmerman over Ellsbury. But since the Rockies have Atkins at 3B, if I can pick 1 of those 3 players at their current skill level, I think Ellsbury fits the best, because the Rockies need a CF and a leadoff hitter.

[zzzmanwitz]

Other Notables

 

OF Travis Buck (OAK #36)

OF Jordan Schafer (ATL #107)

1B Steven Pearce (PIT #241)

[TooLiveBrew]

We're drafting the players as they've developed to this very day, and for the needs of the current big league club we're drafting for.

 

That's true... I have a hard time breaking from BPA! Luckily I have the O's, and have holes all over the diamond. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Also, thanks zzzman.

[JoeHova]

I see lcbj68c made his pick and also that TooLiveBrew ruined my surprise pick http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif . Anyway, without further ado:

 

 

#9 NY Mets pick Micah Owings, SP/1B, Tulane University - Bats/Throws R/R

 

This was a tough choice, it came down to Owings, Cameron Maybin, Matt Garza, and Alex Gordon. I also gave a hard look to Andrew McCutchen and Jed Lowrie, but those guys aren't quite on the level of the above guys, imo.

 

I normally prefer hitters to pitchers because of injury concerns with pitchers, but with Owings, I was willing to make an exception. He looks like he should be a pretty good mid-rotation starter, despite his start in Milwaukee the other day, and has the potential to be more (as a pitcher). Gordon is still very intriguing, but the Mets have David Wright entrenched at 3rd, so 3rd base isn't a big need right now. Meanwhile, pitching is. Gordon may be the best player available, but he has not hit enough to prove that yet, imo.

 

However, the real reason he got the nod is because of the possibility of him being 2 players in one. He has only 160 or so professional at-bats thus far, but he's been excellent in them and also hit well at Tulane and Georgia Tech. I think there is a chance that he is a legitimately good hitter.

 

Carlos Delgado hasn't been doing much against lefties since he became a Met. I'm drafting Owings with the express purpose of starting him at first against most lefties, in addition to his normal pitching duties. I realize that Owings has done better against righties in his career, but we're only platooning him for now to see how he handles playing the field part of the time. If Delgado gets upset about being platooned with a pitcher, no big deal because he's been sucking and this is the last year of his contract.

 

If Owings can handle playing the field 40-50 times a year and does ok, the long term plan would be to start him 3 games out of 5 at first and 1 out of every 5 at pitcher. If he doesn't hit quite enough for first, left field would be an option.

 

Having a guy who can be a starting position player in addition to being a starting pitcher would be a huge advantage. It would give a team more flexibility in roster construction and allow a team to make good use of flawed players like Earl Weaver used to. Who wouldn't like to have an extra roster spot to use on a no-defense slugger like Jack Cust? Or a speed guy who could get you a guaranteed steal when you needed it late in the game or to take over in the field for the afore-mentioned slugger late in the game? Or, if you're Ned, a 15th pitcher http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ?

 

Ideally, I see Owings as a Javier Vazquez type of pitcher and a Richie Sexson type of bat. I realize that the odds of both those things happening are low (perhaps astronomically so), but the chance is worth the #9 pick.

 

Even if he's just an innings eater, at least we got some value out of the pick. And if he gets hurt as a pitcher, maybe he can try to make it as strictly a hitter. The pick may look stupid in a few years, but I feel the chance of Owings becoming a unique player is something worth maybe reaching a couple picks for.

[TooLiveBrew]

I see lcbj68c made his pick and also that TooLiveBrew ruined my surprise pick . Anyway, with out further ado:

#9 NY Mets pick Micah Owings, SP/1B, Tulane University - Bats/Throws R/R

...

However, the real reason he got the nod is because of the possibility of him being 2 players in one. He has only 160 or so professional at-bats thus far, but he's been excellent in them and also hit well at Tulane and Georgia Tech. I think there is a chance that he is a legitimately good hitter.

Nice! It's great to see Owings going to a NL team so his bat isn't wasted as much as it would be in the AL.

Even if he's just an innings eater, at least we got some value out of the pick. And if he gets hurt as a pitcher, maybe he can try to make it as strictly a hitter. The pick may look stupid in a few years, but I feel the chance of Owings becoming a unique player is something worth maybe reaching a couple picks for.

Why didn't you put any thought into your pick?