What do you think of Gamel?

[TooLiveBrew]

The difference btw. .895 & .925 tells you nothing about fielding, though.

 

In the minor leagues, where official scorers (almost always) don't have the benefit of any instant replay, errors should just be ignored. I don't think you can learn anything at all from them. I think you'd have to see a guy play numerous times, and I hope someone that has been able to see Mat play can weigh in.

[JohnBriggs12]

The difference btw. .895 & .925 tells you nothing about fielding, though.

 

In the minor leagues, where official scorers (almost always) don't have the benefit of any instant replay, errors should just be ignored. I don't think you can learn anything at all from them. I think you'd have to see a guy play numerous times, and I hope someone that has been able to see Mat play can weigh in.

Oh I think it does TLB. First better fielders make fewer errors. If (as I do), you read the daily play by play recap of Huntsville's games, you would notice very few "so and so singled to third baseman Matt Gamel", meaning the ball didn't get to the OF. Also if the official scorer was being easy on him, then how would a good fielder like Escobar already have 12 errors too? The other indicator is that the pitching staff is doing well which would be hard to do if the 3rd baseman was that brutal.

 

Gamel had a .826 FP last season. You don't improve 100 points just because of favorable scoring decisions. Also minor league fields tend not to be quite as well manicured as major league fields. If anything a guy should benefit from that coming from the minors to the majors.

 

Here's something else for everyone to chew on:

 

Chase Utley started as a 3B, and in 2002 made 28 errors (.918 FP) at AAA, then was switched to 2B the following season. Not only was he a better fielder at 2B, he became a much better hitter. Maybe the answer is moving Gamel to 2B.

[logan82]

I sort of echo what Brian and TLB said. Can anybody who has watched Gamel on a daily basis give us a scouting report?

 

Every time Gamel comes up everybody talks about how ready his bat is. I would prefer Gamel, and LaPorta for that matter, stay in the minors until one of 3 things happen, an injury opens up a spot, a trade opens up a spot, or Gamel is defensively and offensively ready for the majors. I am tired of guys being rushed through the minors and "their bat being ready for the majors" only to have then come up and be butchers in the field.

[TheCrew07]

I am tired of guys being rushed through the minors and "their bat being ready for the majors" only to have then come up and be butchers in the field.

 

Well the hit tool is the most important tool... I recall 3 players being rushed before they were ready defensively... Weeks, Braun, and Hall. Fielder never profiled to be a good defensive player, he is what he is. Hardy and Hart were ready defensively, but I think Hart wasted away in AAA too long, and while Hardy was rushed and his offense suffered, at least he played solid defense. A solid arguement could probably be made that Braun was never going to be a good 3B either, but that's not something I personally believe.

 

I don't know that a team like Milwaukee can afford to wait on a guy, if Melvin wants the young bats, he's going to create a roster spot for them, just like he did for Braun last year. If the bat is "that" good, they have value to the organization, and someone is going to moved either way. I don't think it would have been the end of the world if one of them would have been called up to DH for interleague, that would have made way more sense than TGJ getting ABs. Melvin seems to move slowly, and it's cost him as he's been burned twice now offereing guys arbitration. I think for one of those kids to come up this year, it would take an offer that Melvin can't refuse, I think both Gamel and LaPorta spend the year at AA, but that doesn't mean they couldn't force their way onto the big league club by this time next year.

[logan82]

TheCrew07 wrote:

I think Hart wasted away in AAA too long, and while Hardy was rushed and his offense suffered, at least he played solid defense.

I disagree that Hart spent to much time in the minors. I think he came up at the right time. We had Jenkins and Lee in the outfield so it was ok to have him sit in AAA for an extra year. It could be argued that he would have been better in a corner than either of those guys, but even if he was, we will benefit more having him on our team in his last year of arbitration than we would have by bringing him up a year earlier. I think we would have been better leaving Hardy in the minors at least half of his rookie year as he was coming off a shoulder injury that cost him most of the previous year. In my mind he did half a season of rehab while collecting service time which will cost us a year of Hardy down the road.

 

 

 

 

I don't know that a team like Milwaukee can afford to wait on a guy, if Melvin wants the young bats, he's going to create a roster spot for them, just like he did for Braun last year.

 

I don't think we can afford to rush them anymore. In the past we had a cobbled together lineup. Now we have capable MLB players filling our roster. There is no reason to call up guys that aren't ready offensively and defensively unless there is an injury or the right deal comes along. I think the plan was for Koskie to play one more year with us so we could get Braun a little more polished defensively. I wish that's what would have happened.

[homer]

I don't think hart spent too much time in the minors - but he did spend too much time on the bench when he was brought up.

[TheCrew07]

I don't think we can afford to rush them anymore. In the past we had a cobbled together lineup. Now we have capable MLB players filling our roster. There is no reason to call up guys that aren't ready offensively and defensively unless there is an injury or the right deal comes along. I think the plan was for Koskie to play one more year with us so we could get Braun a little more polished defensively. I wish that's what would have happened.

In principle I agree with what you're saying, but it's not as cut and dried as you make it. Historically no team holds back a stick that has a chance to be special, as long as he can play passable defense. In an elementary sense baseball is very simple, just score more runs than the other team. The better offensive players you have, the more runs you're going to score, the more games you're going to win, again I feel that's baseball in it's most basic form. If you have a servicable player (call him average for the sake of arguement) playing a position, why would you let that player block the progress of someone who could be a special player? If, and this is a big If, but if Gamel and LaPorta rake all year and have big springs next year, why would Melvin hold up their progress for Hall and Cameron? The incumbents aren't bad players, but they aren't elite players either. If moving Hart to CF, Laporta to LF, and Braun to RF makes the Brewers a better team, why not make the room? In essence, they'd be forcing their way onto the Major League roster the same way Braun, Weeks, and Fielder did before them.

 

A trade is going to happen when Melvin thinks they are ready, and an injury only quickens the inevitable. I don't think an Overbay deal is out of the question in either case, they will make room for both young men when the time comes(unless they are actually included in a trade). Even if Gamel and LaPorta turn out to be only average players it's still a win/win. The Brewers became younger/cheaper and aquired additional depth likely at a position of need.

 

I prefer guys that can flash the leather, but their simply aren't many 5 tool guys that have a polished all around game in their early 20s floating around, most players are 3 and 4 tool types... you do the best with what you have. I don't see how the 2008 Brewers are signifcantly better defensively than the 2007 version. Defense has cost them a game or two, but generally speaking it's not the defense that's been holding this team back, the pitching and hitting were/are the primary culprits in that regard.

 

I expect Hall and Cameron will both rebound and increase their value, the Brewers don't have to trade Cameron to make room, they can choose to decline his option. Assuming Hall rebounds he could be the foundation of a every nice package for some prospects or a young MLB arm. It's been noted many times that Cain was available this off season if the Brewers would have had the ammunition to make a deal. I would hope the Brewers do the best possible job managing all of their assets, and players are assets, keeping an eye on the present and an eye on the future. My favorite Brewers are Hardy (hence my handle), Hart, and Braun, but I also understand that it's not likely they will retire as Brewers either. If Hardy gets moved, I would hope Escobar proves to be capable replacement and the team is better off for the move. Maybe Hall and Hart go, and Cameron stays... I don't know, I do know that I don't mind trading hitting for pitching. If I don't like the return I'll be bitter, but today I feel better about the Linebrink trade than I did 2 days ago.

 

I'm a simple guy, I want the Brewers to be the best possible team they can be in any given year, whatever it takes... just maximize the talent and let the chips fall where they may.

edit. I wrote a book, sorry for the lengthy response.