What would it take to get Greinke?

[ILuvDaBush]

Give me whichever one comes easier, Greinke or Harden. Either one is a mutiple year rental and both are proven aces, albeit with red flags.

[kramnoj]

Give me whichever one comes easier, Greinke or Harden. Either one is a mutiple year rental and both are proven aces, albeit with red flags.

 

Neither of them have been great and healthy in one season. It's a stretch to call either one a proven ace. They could both be good additions, but I don't see either team being motivated to trade their pitchers away.

[ILuvDaBush]

Harden truly is a proven ace...when healthy. To me, he is the Jave Peavy of the AL, with the injury cloud continuing to rain on his Cy Young Parades.

[kramnoj]

Harden truly is a proven ace...when healthy. To me, he is the Jave Peavy of the AL, with the injury cloud continuing to rain on his Cy Young Parades.

 

That doesn't really make sense. Harden has never been a healthy ace for a full season. Peavy was last year, and he was also very good in 2005.

[ILuvDaBush]

203IP/2.88/216K/50BB/1.04WHIP/18HR
125IP/2.53/121K/43BB/1.06WHIP/7HR

Those are their respective lines from 2005. Eerily similar, but while the Coliseum is a good place to pitch, it is a far cry from Petco.

[splitterpfj]

I could see the Royals dealing Greinke, because arms are all they've got coming through their system right now. They've taken a bat in the first round each of the last two years, but both of those players are years away from Kansas City.

 

Thirteen of their top fifteen prospects are pitchers - this is a team that may actually need to deal some arms, Greinke is the one the would bring the best return right now.

 

When I look at Huntsville, I see six future major leaguers in that lineup, I have no problem dealing from that depth, but I want an arm that will be here for more than 60 games. I wouldn't deal Gamel or Escobar for anyone right now, beyond them, I'd at least discuss any prospect in the system, in return for quality pitching.

 

I'd at least want to hear what KC wants for Greinke, they pretty much need all of the young position players they can get right now.

[kramnoj]

203IP/2.88/216K/50BB/1.04WHIP/18HR

125IP/2.53/121K/43BB/1.06WHIP/7HR

 

Those are their respective lines from 2005. Eerily similar, but while the Coliseum is a good place to pitch, it is a far cry from Petco.

 

You think a difference of just under 80 IP is eerily similar? There's no question that Harden has a lot of talent. I'm just disputing calling him a proven ace when he acutally hasn't done that for anything close to a full season.

[chuckcrim]

This from Rotoworld.......

 

The Phillies and Brewers have expressed interest in Zack Greinke, but the Royals aren't looking to make a deal.

The Braves are another team that has tried for him in the past. Greinke is a free agent after 2010 and figures to be a tough sign for Kansas City, but if he stays healthy, he'll likely have at least as much trade value in a year as he does now. The Royals would have to be blown away to deal him. The Brewers, though, could tempt them if they'd offer Mat Gamel and either catcher Angel Salome or shortstop Alcides Escobar.

 

I really hope we don't deal Gamel and Salome/Escobar for Greinke.

[GoudaBrew]

This from Rotoworld.......

 

The Phillies and Brewers have expressed interest in Zack Greinke, but the Royals aren't looking to make a deal.

The Braves are another team that has tried for him in the past. Greinke is a free agent after 2010 and figures to be a tough sign for Kansas City, but if he stays healthy, he'll likely have at least as much trade value in a year as he does now. The Royals would have to be blown away to deal him. The Brewers, though, could tempt them if they'd offer Mat Gamel and either catcher Angel Salome or shortstop Alcides Escobar.

 

I really hope we don't deal Gamel and Salome/Escobar for Greinke.

I'd be tempted to. Greinke has been great, and while he probably isn't as good as CC, he isn't a FA until after 2010. If we lose Sheets after the year, a Gallardo/Greinke is still a pretty darn good 1-2 punch.

 

[brewjihad]

and while he probably isn't as good as CC

 

I'm not so sure, and the age and the ability to keep him for two more years really swings it in Greinke's favor.

 

ERA+ of 127+125 the last two years for Greinke with a WHIP of about 1.25

 

Sabathia was around 100 ERA+ for a while and then jumped to about 140 ERA+ for the past two years, and now he's back down to about 103 ERA+ next year. His WHIP also jumped over a tenth of a runner this year.

 

Bottom line is, I'd be very willing to give up a few very top prospects for two and a half years of Greinke. For a half a season of Sabathia, who I don't even think is as good as Greinke, I wouldn't be willing to give up any of the Huntsville 4, whereas I'd be tempted to give up two of them for Greinke.

[jjfanec]

Where does Greinke rate in value to Dan Haren? The D-backs gave up their 1,3,7,8th ranked prospects along with Eveland to land him. I personally do not think we would have to give up as much to land but I also dont know how their prospects ranked compared to ours. If he doesn't compare well with Haren are there any past trades that are similar? I would love to have Greinke on this team. I believe a Yo, Greinke, Parra start to a rotation could be great.

[endaround]

Not quite the track record of Haren. It would likely take two major pieces plus two minors ones to land him. The big problem woudl be if the Royals would want pitching back because the Brewers really have little to offer.

[And That]

The Royals might want Braddock or Jeffress back, and at least in Jeffress' case, that would be a deal breaker for me. I don't know if they'd take LaPorta, Salome, Hammond and Dillard but if they would I'd seriously consider it.

[StearnsFTW]

I make that last deal in a heartbeat. I like Salome and LaPorta, but Greinke is extremely talented and is having a very good year.

 

I'd personally prefer Greinke to CC, but I really hope we get one or the other.

[jjfanec]

The Royals shouldnt want too much young pitching back. It looks like 8 of their top 9 prospects are pitchers. I am guessing it will center on our bats which works well because that is what we have a lot of.

[Bnowell4evr]

If we can avoid giving them Gamel then I say do whatever we gotta do to get this trade done. Grienke gives us a much need 1-2 punch along with Sheets in the postseason and allows us to maintain our stance as serious playoff contenders after Sheets leaves for free agency while we still have Prince Fielder, Corey Hart, Rickie Weeks and JJ Hardy still under contract.

 

A package of something like this would surely get it done right?

 

LaPorta

Escobar / Salome

Then 2 of any of these prospects:

Gillespie, Cain, Brantley, Gwynn, Irribarren, Nelson, Lucroy, Brewer, Braddock or the Lefties in AAA and AA

 

for

 

Greinke

and relief pitcher

 

Losing LaPorta and one of Escobar or Salome would hurt but its the price you have to pay to get serious talent like Greinke. If we give up Escobar that just means we need to resign Hardy to a longterm contract and if we trade Salome that means we need to keep Kendall around an extra year until Lawrie or Lucroy is ready to catch. The other pieces are all replaceable and would be worth parting with for with a legit front of the rotation starter who is under our controll for 2 more years!!!

[pogokat]

what about:

 

Gamel

Salome

Jeffress

A ball pitcher

 

for

 

Alex Gordon

Zach Greinke

 

we give up a bunch but we get back the pitcher we want and a 3b that has every bit as much potential as gamel..

 

regardless, those are the three of our top prospects i feel the best giving up...trading away escobar might be a good idea as well...still don't think he's going to be more than an average hitter in the majors..

[Postseason2006]

No way Jeffress is involve with the Brewers lack of pitching depth in the minors.

[twobrewers]

Pogo -

 

I hate how much sense that trade makes for both teams.

 

Too me, Gamel and Jeffress are pretty much untouchable. But getting back Greinke and Gordan would make up for losing those two. I wonder how much Jeffress' past drug suspensions hurt his value.

[silversurferr]

Anyone who trades for Greinke must assess his mental health status. Greinke overcame is controlling his problem, but a disorienting move to another city could be very difficult.

[brewjihad]

Anyone who trades for Greinke must assess his mental health status.

 

It's a very valid concern, but I think the risk of trading for Greinke is less than the risk of trading for a permanently injured guy like Rich Harden or someone like Sabathia who's only going to be here for a few months.

 

Greinke has the ace-like stuff, great numbers this year and last year, he's young, not ridiculously expensive, and is under control for 2 1/2 years. If we're going to give up LaPorta for a pitcher at the deadline, Greinke is the guy I want.

 

Here's a story from Josh Kalk of THT on Greinke. He uses Pitch F/X to analyze his stuff and concludes that Greinke's stuff is ace-like.

[silversurferr]

I agree,Laporta or Gamel for Greinke would be a good move. But I think KC will hold out for considerably more. At least a Laporta and top pitching prospect. Dougie won't do that.....

[silversurferr]

Jihad: Great article! However, those are the reasons the Royals will want at least two blue chippers, if not more.

[brewjihad]

I think a package would have to be centered around LaPorta. I think this, from the previous page of this thread, is pretty realistic (from Bnowell4evr):

 

LaPorta

Escobar or Salome

Then 2 of any of these prospects:

Gillespie, Cain, Brantley, Gwynn, Irribarren, Nelson, Lucroy, Brewer, Braddock or the Lefties in AAA and AA

 

for

 

Greinke

and relief pitcher

 

Except I think Brantley is regarded higher than any of the guys in the third line there, so I would exclude him.

[Oldcity]

what about:

 

Gamel

Salome

Jeffress

A ball pitcher

 

for

 

Alex Gordon

Zach Greinke

Is there a big difference in value right now between Gordon and Gamel? I see Gordon as more valuable than Gamel because you know he can play third, and Gordon should still be a good hitter. Even if you see Gordon/Gamel as a wash, then this becomes Salome/Jeffress/A ball pitcher for Greinke. I don't think KC goes for that.