Is Ryan Braun great, or just really good?

[Dragonbait]

Call me old-fashioned but stats do not in and of themselves make a Great player. They are important, but only if character goes with them.

 

Yeah.... thats why I dont like the idea of guys like Bonds and Sheff dont deserve to be in... numberwise sure.... but both are cancers to society.

[endaround]

See, this is really weird. Braun is hated around baseball because he's thought of as incredibly arrogant.

[kramnoj]

See, this is really weird. Braun is hated around baseball because he's thought of as incredibly arrogant.

 

I think that's an overstatement based on some messageboard posters. He's not really arrogant. He's just so confident that he sometimes crosses the line to cockiness. I think there is a difference.

[tosabrewfan]

The reason Braun is thought of as arrogant is because he thinks that there is nothing he can't do with a bat in his hands. He's only arrogant if he's wrong; if he's right, it will be one of the things that makes him "great." Think of "great" players from other sports - Tiger, Kobe, Federer - every one of these players think that they are the best in their respective games. The only reason they aren't all lambasted for being arrogant, is that they have shown that they just might be right. Braun is not at that level yet, and he may never get there. But if he's going to have a chance at being truly great, he's going to need a certain amount of "arrogance."

[jazzytrav]

See, this is really weird. Braun is hated around baseball because he's thought of as incredibly arrogant.

 

I thought this was an opinion that a poster gave us from an anonymous relief pitcher (not that I'm questioning the poster). I could be wrong on that, but if that's the case, I don't trust the opinion of one relief pitcher. Either way, I would venture a guess that Pujols and Arod aren't very well liked around the league.

[endaround]

The point is that because he said soem thigns once that people like doesn't mean he's a great player. Ted Williams makes Bonds look cuddly, but he's a great player.

[jazzytrav]

Ted Williams would be given the Bonds-TO treatment if he played today. Can you imagine today's media spotlight being around when Williams played?

[kmcasper23]

Braun is a Great player! How many players in the history of baseball have hit as many homeruns to start his career as Braun has in the last year. He has played exactly one year of baseball right now and has hit 48 home runs in that time and knocked in a ton of runs. Other than Pujols in the last decade, who else has accomplished what Braun has in his first season?

[Ennder]

He won't be great until he draws more walks, just like Carlos Lee is just good and not great.

[kmcasper23]

He won't draw walks much because Prince is behind him in the lineup. A pitcher would rather give up a solo homer to Braun than a two-run homer to Prince. The reason why guys like Pujols and Bonds are able to draw walks is because they didn't have very good players after them in the lineup that put fear in a pitcher.

[jazzytrav]

Braun wasn't drawing walks when he batted cleanup earlier this year, either. And Prince had no problem drawing walks with an power hitter behind him.

 

I really don't think the whole "batting in front of" a certain player thing has that much to do with anything.

 

Edit: woops, I said it backwards.

 

When Prince was hitting 3rd with Braun behind him, Prince had no problem drawing walks, while Braun still couldn't draw a walk with Bill Hall behind him. That's what I was trying to say.

[kmcasper23]

Prince will walk more because a pitcher would rather face Corey Hart than Prince Fielder. A pitcher is not gonna walk Braun to get to Fielder though. Having said that, Braun could learn to draw more walks, but remember he is still a very young player and that will come with time.

[FIPS133]

I don't have a clue if Braun is good or great at this early point in his career, but I do know that Braun's HR today during his bobble head day is notable.

 

It may be selective memory but it seems to me that bobble head days are a mini-curse on the the Brewer being honored. I remember the particularly gruesome Turnbow bobble head day on May 13th, 2006. Derrick came in to save the game and blew it in dramatic fashion. While it would be a few weeks until the wheels officially came off - this was the beginning of the end for "good Turnbow".c

 

Braun's HR shows he has the ability to even overcome bad bobble head mojo.

[TooLiveBrew]

He won't draw walks much because Prince is behind him in the lineup.

 

He doesn't BB much because his approach is to swing at nearly everything. He'd have a bunch more BBs this season already if he'd added more patience to his approach. Prince is nearly 100% immaterial to that.

[splitterpfj]

If you saw Braun's HR today, it showed both his greatest strength, and his greatest weakness.

 

That pitch looked like it was both low and outside, he shouldn't even be swinging at that - but he hit it into the bullpen.

 

He gets himself out by chasing bad pitches, but he does so because he can drive those balls - will he ever learn to stay within the strike zone, or will he just keep trying to see it and hit it?

[Diggr14]

Braun is great.

 

[MickeyDavis]

The pitch he hit today for a homer may have been a ball but he had two strikes, can't really blame him for swinging.

[endaround]

If you saw Braun's HR today, it showed both his greatest strength, and his greatest weakness.

 

That pitch looked like it was both low and outside, he shouldn't even be swinging at that - but he hit it into the bullpen.

 

He gets himself out by chasing bad pitches, but he does so because he can drive those balls - will he ever learn to stay within the strike zone, or will he just keep trying to see it and hit it?

But it isn't just swinging at strikes. He can expand his hitting zone but he needs to realize what his zone actually is. Take Vlad. He has the biggest hitting zone that most ever saw. Yet his OBP is still 60 points higher than his BA because he doesn't swing at balls he can't hit, Braun does.

 

[Ennder]

Having a good hitter behind you probably cuts the BBs down some but your approach at the plate has a lot more to do with it than anything.

[danzig6767]

If you saw Braun's HR today, it showed both his greatest strength, and his greatest weakness.

 

That pitch looked like it was both low and outside, he shouldn't even be swinging at that - but he hit it into the bullpen.

 

He gets himself out by chasing bad pitches, but he does so because he can drive those balls - will he ever learn to stay within the strike zone, or will he just keep trying to see it and hit it?

I agree

Braun is the closest thing to Vlad in baseball as a hitter. Both love to swing the bat and only take pitches when they are clearly out of the strike zone, but both also have amazing plate coverage which allows them to crush/drive pitches off the plate that the vast majority of hitters would hit weakly if they to swung at it.

Like Vlad, i think Braun will eventually walk more and at an acceptable level as he matures as a hitter, but Ryan will likely never walk at a very high rate. I'm relatively fine with that because Braun is so incredibly skilled as a hitter that in most years he'll hit around .300 or higher with very good slugging percentages.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, and I think down the line it'd be relatively easy to see him BBing at a Vlad-ish rate, too. Outside of Vlad's incredible 2002 season with the Expos, his BB totals have been in the 50-70 range. When you consider an everyday player gets roughly 650+ PA per season, that BB range is really not very hard to hit for a powerful guy like Braun.

 

I'd even be surprised if he didn't wind up near 50 BBs by the end of 2008. Pitchers are going to be very aware of his power very soon, if they aren't already. Then the onus shifts to Ryan not trying to swing like Soriano. His deep commitment to improving himself in every facet of the game is why I'd be a bit surprised if he doesn't near or surpass 50 BB this season.

[danzig6767]

Yes, and I think down the line it'd be relatively easy to see him BBing at a Vlad-ish rate, too. Outside of Vlad's incredible 2002 season with the Expos, his BB totals have been in the 50-70 range. When you consider an everyday player gets roughly 650+ PA per season, that BB range is really not very hard to hit for a powerful guy like Braun.

 

I'd even be surprised if he didn't wind up near 50 BBs by the end of 2008. Pitchers are going to be very aware of his power very soon, if they aren't already. Then the onus shifts to Ryan not trying to swing like Soriano. His deep commitment to improving himself in every facet of the game is why I'd be a bit surprised if he doesn't near or surpass 50 BB this season.

Yea that's the range i roughly see Braun sitting at in most years with his walk rate, 50-70ish depending a bit on who bats after him. One thing to consider with Vlad is the IBB balls he gets each year because for the most part, Vlad hasn't really had a great hitter following him. With Braun having Fielder batting after him, teams won't ever give him an intentional walk, but it's been a long time since Vlad had a guy hitting after him that was even anywhere near his equal as a hitter. If Braun had say Corey Hart batting after him this year instead of Prince, my guess is Ryan would get somewhere around 5-7 free passes.

Braun has only taken 6 walks this month and just from watching nearly each game, i'd guess he could have drawn another 5-6 or more if he was more patient, but at least he's taking enough pitches now that he's not getting into so many 0-2/1-2 counts where the pitcher has a much better chance to get him out.

Man though, when Braun gets locked in, that guy is such fun to watch hit. His skill and plate coverage is amazing and it must be so hard for pitchers when Ryan is grooving because almost anything near the plate he ends up ripping a laser beam to all different parts of the park. I do want him to walk more, but i gotta admit, there are times with runners on in close games with two outs where i hope he doesn't get walked because i trust in him most to drive the ball for a big hit to get those baserunners across the plate.