LaPorta moves onto Project Prospects Top 25 Under 25 list

[TooLiveBrew]

#1 -- personally I could care less. Ryan Longwell did the same... was he more of a team leader than Favre, who (iirc) never did a weekly radio thing?

 

#3 -- how do we know there wasn't something much more important that came up? We really don't.

 

#7 -- yes, but not right now, which is what stuck out to me initially. He's still in Milwaukee for a while, so to sell off on him now (not what you necessarily said, twobrew) is poor timing imo.

 

I just think there's a lot of implied things that we 'know' about Prince. I don't think that's very fair, as I can respect a guy that doesn't want to step into the limelight all that much. Braun is very comfortable there, Prince is not. That's all I take away from it. To be sure, Prince could have done some things differently, but at age 24, I don't view him as being the 'bad guy' for the way he's handled things.

 

He takes flak every day for people's perceptions -- he's fat, he's a stupid vegetarian, he's lazy, he had his career year already, & on & on. I can't blame him for not being a bit more visible. I'm not singling anyone out, just observing the comments made on a daily basis. Our perception of what he's like really doesn't go any further than just a perception.

 

I'm going to trust that he's a club leader -- besides, what have we 'seen' from Braun? One quote in the Boston series? If Prince made those comments, there's a fair chance many would have told him to 'shove it until you start producing'. Braun really hasn't done anything more than Prince in terms of leading the team, as far as we -- outside observers -- know... it's way more perception.

 

 

Whether he means it or not, his words have come off as bitter, and image is a lot of sports now. It is what fans buy into and teams market. And he should know this

 

Good point(s). I'm sure he does know this, too.

 

 

TooLiveBrew do you think the Brewers will be able to afford to keep Prince when he hits free agency? It seems like a forgone conclusion that he wont sign a contract until then

 

No, and I've never said I think we can. I just think to talk of trading him for pitching *now* is to knee-jerk react to a slow(ish) start. Even in that slow start, he's had terrific on-base results, and the power is going to come. I mean, we're talking about a talent whose low-end HR projection is near 35. That's incredible.

 

 

You and I may differ on his quote, I do think there is some animosity there but I could be wrong. however, my feelings about trading Prince have nothing to do with attitude but all to do with LaPorta and Gamel, Prince's inevitable huge contract, and our need for another stud pitcher.

 

I respect that. I took issue with the notion (& perhaps I invented it from thin air here) that we should do so asap.

[jjfanec]

TooLiveBrew do you think the Brewers will be able to afford to keep Prince when he hits free agency? It seems like a forgone conclusion that he wont sign a contract until then

 

No, and I've never said I think we can. I just think to talk of trading him for pitching *now* is to knee-jerk react to a slow(ish) start. Even in that slow start, he's had terrific on-base results, and the power is going to come. I mean, we're talking about a talent whose low-end HR projection is near 35. That's incredible.

I was actually asking what you thought about signing Prince long-term. To me if we know we cannot keep him some time this off-season or next we need to start listening to offers. I dont think it is a knee-jerk reaction to a slow start by Prince as much as to signing Braun long-term, the reality Prince probably wont be signed long-term, and the reality we need top-end starting pitching and the only way to get that without braking the bank is by trading a valuable asset. We shouldn't trade Prince until if we know LaPorta or Gamel are ready to contribute in a 25/30 plus home run fashion. Neither of these guys will match him offensively, although Gamel may be able to hold a higher average. They will probably be better defensively and will be cheap. Prince is an incredible talent and does bring things other than power to the table like OBP. I would not be disappointed if Prince stays here 3 years, but I just wonder if that is the best choice for our organization.

 

 

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I was actually asking what you thought about signing Prince long-term. To me if we know we cannot keep him some time this off-season or next we need to start listening to offers.

 

I answered that I don't think we'll sign Prince long-term. What I thought was knee-jerk was the idea that we should trade him as early as this season -- which I noted was a notion that I might have invented, as opposed to it really being someone's argument.

 

 

We shouldn't trade Prince until if we know LaPorta or Gamel are ready to contribute in a 25/30 plus home run fashion. Neither of these guys will match him offensively, although Gamel may be able to hold a higher average.

 

Very much agree.

 

 

Prince is an incredible talent and does bring things other than power to the table like OBP. I would not be disappointed if Prince stays here 3 years, but I just wonder if that is the best choice for our organization.

 

If, in 2 seasons, it's blatantly clear that LaPorta (for example) is ready, then yes, dealing Fielder will be the right thing to do. And as you mentioned, should net a windfall of prospects.

[twobrewers]

I just think there's a lot of implied things that we 'know' about Prince. I don't think that's very fair, as I can respect a guy that doesn't want to step into the limelight all that much.

I agree 100%.

 

The perception of Prince is affected by his inability to speak well publically. It certainly does not signal that he is rude, stupid, lazy, or mean. But when you are unable to articulate your thoughts clearly - people will make inferences based on the comments you do make.

 

Edit: Wanted to include that I don't think we should trade Prince now. I just think it is worth exploring in the off-season.

[TooLiveBrew]

But when you are unable to articulate your thoughts clearly - people will make inferences based on the comments you do make.

 

Very true. Must be doubly frustrating.

 

 

Wanted to include that I don't think we should trade Prince now. I just think it is worth exploring in the off-season.

 

If the opportunity is there, I agree with taking a look. I just don't think we should count on LaPorta being definitely ready for 2009.

[uwisfan]

you have a lot straw man arguments going on here. The discussion is on if the Brewers should trade him and you are the turning this into "all the fans are on his case, thinking he sucks and wanting to trade him this year". Those are your words and tidbits you've cobbled together from multiple places, not from this thread. The talk around trading him primarily is because he has tangible value due to his breakout year, because he isn't likely re-signable, because the team has a ton of depth, because he isnt versatile, and PRIMARILY because he can get us good pitching. If it were Laporta that had come to the bigs with Prince in the minors, I'd be saying the same thing about dumping Laporta. But Prince is the proven commodity, can net us more, and is less part of the long-term plan I think.

[TooLiveBrew]

The discussion is on if the Brewers should trade him and you are the turning this into "all the fans are on his case, thinking he sucks and wanting to trade him this year".

 

No, that part was in direct response to twobrewers's post. Here is what I wrote: "He takes flak every day for people's perceptions -- he's fat, he's a stupid vegetarian, he's lazy, he had his career year already, & on & on. I can't blame him for not being a bit more visible. I'm not singling anyone out, just observing the comments made on a daily basis." That was discussing how much of a 'leader' he is/isn't. That didn't have anything to do with whether or not we should trade him, unless the argument was, 'Trade him bc he's not a true leader'. The discussion went a lot of ways at once imo.

 

 

The talk around trading him primarily is because he has tangible value due to his breakout year, because he isn't likely re-signable, because the team has a ton of depth, because he isnt versatile, and PRIMARILY because he can get us good pitching.

 

Once again, I point out that the only portion of that to which I took exception was that we should look to deal him this season.

 

 

If it were Laporta that had come to the bigs with Prince in the minors, I'd be saying the same thing about dumping Laporta. But Prince is the proven commodity, can net us more, and is less part of the long-term plan I think.

 

Right -- that's fair. I have no objection to trading him, just think that to do so this season (or even next) would not be the best play.

[uwisfan]

if all else were equal and I had a choice between trading him now or trading him at the deadline of his last year, I'd choose his last year. But I'm looking for a top-notch pitcher with a lot of similar value and contract..so I would trade him whenever the opportunity was there..

[endaround]

You're not going to get that pitcher. You'll get prospects.

[bullox]

Wasn't this a LaPorta thread?

[Gopher74]

But that's the thing -- this notion that Prince has "something stuck in his craw" is based on manipulating a quote so it makes fans feel justified.

I think the sentiment isn't based solely on his contract comments.

 

 

3. Remember when Prince was suppose to sign a bat for all the full-season ticket holder - and suddenly had a "conflict" even though this was set up months before? Prince disappointed many fans. Ryan Braun stepped in graciously signed the bats.

 

 

Not taking any sides on this thread, but I happen to know for a fact that Prince had no "conflict". In fact, in the end he ended up simply hanging out with another athlete and canceled without giving a reason. Of course the Brewers aren't going to say that he just didn't want to do it, but that's pretty much what it was. I know the Brewers were pretty irked by that. Some took it as him making a point. I look at it as a kid who didn't feel like spending all day signing bats before a game, but whatever....

 

[Gopher74]

TooLiveBrew do you think the Brewers will be able to afford to keep Prince when he hits free agency?

Though it's not directed towards me, I'll answer. The Brewers can absolutely afford to sign him. There's no question they'll be able to. The only question is whether they can re-sign him and still be able to afford enough players to still be competitive and moreover, is it the best use of their somewhat limited resources. I think most on here will agree that the answer to those two questions is no.

 

I still believe that Prince is far and away the best offensive player we've got or will have for the foreseeable future. Braun's great, but his OBP is still just what, .320? Not very good. Of course Braun's OPS is near .900, so he's very good, but Prince is a more well rounded offensive player IMO. But the Brewers are also a better team if they trade him IMO.