Fixing the Milwaukee Bucks -- Latest: Mo Williams traded (reply #290)

[jwaltz]

Luc Richard Mbah A Moute has played plenty of power forward too. He could probably fill in some at both positions. He's another team oriented, defensive minded guy. He does the little things you need to do to win. Plus he's a bona fide prince. Jefferson, Alexander, and LR MAM should really change the attitude of the team.

[brettac1]

He's an awesome defensive player.

[Mr QL]

I guess I'm okay with Mbah a Moute. Seems a little like David Noel and we already drafted a 3 and traded for one today but he's one of the best defenders in the whole draft. I think it's pretty cool that he's a prince too.

[jwaltz]

He spells Luc like Jean-Luc Picard does. That's always a good sign.

 

He's a great defender, a very tough and strong guy, and a team player. He may not develop into much of an offensive game but as a tough lock down defender off the bench he's a very nice guy to have.

[RyDogg66]

If all you can say about this guy, lets call him LMM for short, is that he is a good defender, then all I can say about him is that he is exactly what the Bucks needed.

[nate82]

If all you can say about this guy, lets call him LMM for short, is that he is a good defender, then all I can say about him is that he is exactly what the Bucks needed.

I wish he was a guard though.

Maybe the Bucks will still ship either Mo, Redd, or CV yet.

 

[blatzlight]

Best post in this thread. Can we all go back to the Bogut pick please? The Bucks had Ford and Mo (by the way I still like the Bogut pick to a degree) and they passed on Chris Paul. Pick the best guy. Also, I can't believe this thread at all. Calling out "white players" flat out isnt' cool. Calling him out and calling him a big guy like Ostertag or Reeves is a joke. Have you ever seen Alexander play? If you have, you know darn well he's nothing like those guys. And if you know the NBA draft it's a crap shoot. Go back and look at some past drafts on how bad they have been. If Alexander averages 10 ppg for his a career, it'll be solid pick. I can't believe the race card on this thread. All NBA teams should avoid white americans in the first round? I love the fact that the Bucks took in their eyes the best player on the board --- regardless of his skin color.

Nobody thought Chris Paul was the best player on the day of the draft. It was either Bogut or Marvin Williams.

Not true - The Sports Guy wrote how Paul was the best player in the draft.

 

[samwise]

Alexander will be a bust. Big, white Americans never pan out. This was a wasted pick. Should have gone for the best point with the biggest upside. Mo Williams is a problem for this team and it seems Skiles thinks he can fix him. HA!

Quick athletic black players becomes busts. Quick athletic white players also become busts. So do big tall asian players, as well as long and athletic black players. I think focusing on race to determine the quality of the player is not a very smart.

 

[rwa12]

The entire day's events seemed to be building for Skiles' system, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I loved the Jefferson pickup, and was thrilled that we were finally the team being the beneficiary of someone else building cap space. RJ may be overpaid, but he is still very productive, and fits the high effort/intensity system well. I don't really feel either way about the JA pick, I think he probably could have been had a few picks lower, but I think it is rarely a mistake to take a proven college player. He fits the system well, and wanted to come to Milwaukee, which I hope fans embrace. The second round pick didn't really matter to me. He is going to be NBDL depth for a few years at least. Regardless of defensive ability, if he doesn't find some O game, he won't see the NBA. Would have liked to see Douglas-Roberts, as he is a player who I think is NBA ready, and would have helped this year. He must have had some issues to drop as far as he did.

 

To address the race stereotype issue, I think the argument here is misused. White players are typically cast as unathletic and slow, neither applies to JA. We aren't drafting a 7 footer with bad feet, this guy is one of the best athletes in the draft. Would you have preferred Randolph just because he was black, even though he was referred to as dangerously thin? Echo the sentiments that there are equal amounts of busts, regardless of race. Kevin Love has unbelievable court feel, his workouts were almost identical to Al Horford's, but he is a bust because he is white?

 

As far as Bogut/Paul goes, conventional wisdom states that you don't pass on talented bigs, or talented PGs. The Bucks had to choose between the two. They already had Ford, who couldn't shift to the 2, the pick was redundant. If I am not mistaken, Ford had not yet broken his neck, so he was still thought of as a good PG. They made a decent choice. The easy example of making the wrong decision in a spot like this was Big Dog/Kidd. Usually not a good idea to take a good 2/3 when a good 1 is available.

[JJHardy7]

As far as Bogut/Paul goes, conventional wisdom states that you don't pass on talented bigs, or talented PGs. The Bucks had to choose between the two. They already had Ford, who couldn't shift to the 2, the pick was redundant. If I am not mistaken, Ford had not yet broken his neck, so he was still thought of as a good PG. They made a decent choice. The easy example of making the wrong decision in a spot like this was Big Dog/Kidd. Usually not a good idea to take a good 2/3 when a good 1 is available.

 

I do think the Bucks did make the right pick, but my comments are more to those complaining about the JA pick since it's not a need. I hope the Bucks felt Bogut was the best player in the draftI really believe more than any sport in the NBA you have to take the best player available. The Bucks did that last year in Yi and then are year later were able to package him to get a pretty good player. If the Bucks think JA was the best player on the board, it's a good pick. Picks to fill needs don't always work out.

[rwa12]

I think they picked him (JA) because he was the best pick for their system. Talent wise, I think most would argue that Brook Lopez was better value at that selection. I think JA was more versatile than BL, and more of an athlete. I was honestly confused by the hype of this draft. It is being billed as ultra-deep, but I think it is thin as far as top-line talent. I would accept that it is deep with role-players, and guys who will be mainstays in the league. Not sure if there are a ton of All-Stars in this draft though. I think the argument could be made that Bogut was drafted for need. The Bucks were set on a big man, and were going to take the top big man. I don't think they looked that hard at Paul.

[yoshii8]

Is it racist if I am white? And am I not patriotic because I think American players (who happen to be white) aren't any good? Come on everyone. Name some white American superstars? Preferably within the last 15 years.

 

oops..edit... over 6'7''

The Websters definition of racism is: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.

So what I'm trying to say is that IMO the point you are trying to make is racist even though you are white. There have been plenty of great American born caucasian basketball players; John Stockton, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Bill Walton, Jerry West, John Havlicek, Kevin Mchale to name a few.

 

I think its ridiculous to say that someone is automatically better than someone else at anything because of race, and its sad that people still think this way.

[homer]

Steve Nash is a two time MVP - granted he's Canadian but that's like Diet American. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

I haven't taken the time to read the whole thread. Seems like Alexander is a 'good' pick, and Mbah a Moute is a solid one, too.

 

Is it thread crapping for me to say that when I saw the RJ/Jianlian-Simmons deal, I felt bad for RJ?

UArizona ---> biggest media market & metropolitan area in the country ---> Milwaukee

 

If he's overpaid, what does that make Bobby Simmons? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I'm glad to see the Bucks add RJ, even if Jianlian was a risky guy to deal away. I really like shedding that Simmons contract. Nice to see from the new GM Hammond. I'm sorry for being so poorly versed in the Bucks. Trying to pay better attention.

[ccbrew]

Quick athletic black players becomes busts. Quick athletic white players also become busts. So do big tall asian players, as well as long and athletic black players. I think focusing on race to determine the quality of the player is not a very smart.

 

Whew, thank you for finally bringing some sense into this conversation. Some of the earlier comments were really frustrating to read.

 

[iluvlamp]

So people are calling me a racist for pointing out the fact than white American players never reach even great status. I am talking about the last 20 years or so. Mullin was great. Stockton was GREAT(HOF). Tom Chambers? Who else? I included a little guy even though that wasn't my original point.

 

There may be many reasons big white Americans suck at basketball. It's not my fault. I also said I could be wrong about the guys in this class. But the track record is not my fault. It is what it is. Why draft a big white American when 99.9% of the time they aren't even all-stars. Or even near all-star great status 99%. Sure some are good. Most are not. Most are crappy role players like Wennington and Bradley who only succeed because they are tall, but have no skills. Who is teaching the big white Americans the skills? Good question.

 

Maybe focusing on the race isn't a good thing. I agree. When it comes to big American who happen to be caucausian I would be reticent.

 

Get Smart was OK. Sorry I couldn't respond more in time.

[homer]

So people are calling me a racist

Actually, I think it's just one person...

I included a little guy even though that wasn't my original point.

And I believe your original examples were all slow centers....which JA is not.

 

There may be many reasons big white Americans suck at basketball.

Again, JA is not a big guy. He's a small forward. Like Van Horn or Szczerbiak. Do those guys suck?

 

Most are crappy role players like Wennington and Bradley who only succeed because they are tall, but have no skills. Who is teaching the big white Americans the skills? Good question.

Frist off, Wennington is Canadian. And JA is not the same type of player as the ones you keep mentioning. You keep listing centers. Let's try to compare apples to apples.

 

 

By your logic we could say no one should ever draft an African center because Olowakandi, Yinke Dare, and Manute Bol all stunk. Then someone would mention Olajuwon and then it would be "Well name someone in the last ten years!"

[iluvlamp]

LOL. Homer I was going to correct Wen...D'oh!. Still not too good. JA is over 6'8 or about. Even those guys turn out to be turds. Wally and Van Horn would not be considered great players. They were good. For a time.

[Minigoon]

Joe Alexander > Pat Cummings > Frank Kornet

[craig712]

Joe Alexander AT LEAST will give the Bucks some excitement. Along with RJ, we may have one of the best dunking combos in the league. PLUS, THEY BOTH PLAY D! Now, let's move MO!

[jwaltz]

The guy who did the draft grades for The Sporting News called Luc-Richard Mbah a Moute, "Ron Artest without the crazy." I like that.

[greeg35]

Uggh, I was hoping for more actual bucks/basketball talk rather than more crap.

 

The more I let the trade/draft settle out, the more I think Redd is destined to stay here for this year. I think Mo and CV may be destined for other places; but it will only happen if they get a starter at either the 1 or the 4 in return (I'm sure they prefer the 1). It seems like Hammond is taking a balanced approach to rebuilding/restructuring the bucks current roster/contract makeup, using quality veterans and young developmental guys.

 

I like the Alexander pick more and more as I research--a little bit of bulk and an improved face up jump-shot and I think he's a 4. I think he'll back up the 3 and the 4 for this year. I'm sad about losing Yi so early (I think he'll still turn out) and I think I was the only Bobby Simmons supporter in the state although he CERTAINLY underachieved and was not worth the money (injuries, misuse, and malaise caused by losing did him in) and it was a dumb contract to begin with; but RJ is a very solid player (check out his shooting percentages last year, and rebound/assist numbers) in return that will improve our team immediately.

 

Where can we get a solid PG? We've shown we can lose big with Mo--I'm sure that worst case we can do the same with Sessions without the overpaid selfishness factors.

[rwa12]

Where can we get a solid PG? We've shown we can lose big with Mo--I'm sure that worst case we can do the same with Sessions without the overpaid selfishness factors

I still think Memphis is the partner for us. They have Conley, Lowrie and now Mayo (who they are destined to misuse as a PG). Wouldn't mind shipping CV or Mo to them, maybe with a Second Round pick. Chris Wallace is one of the worst GMs in the league, let's see if Hammond can take advantage of him as well!

[valpocrewsader]

In the end this is a decent trade for both teams. The Nets are looking to rebuild .... Yi is a big $ draw

Didn't take long: njnets.com

[burniebrewer]

Sorry that I haven't read the whole thread, but has Jefferson commented yet on the trade to the Bucks?