Long-term contracts for our young guys: Who should we try to lock up? Latest: Prince declines 60 million offer (reply #23)

[Bucky Rules]

JoeHova,

He has implied that he was disrespected. To complain about not making a few hundred thousand more this year, after turning down $60 million, is absolutely moronic and Prince should not get a pass on it. The way I see it - fine, turn down the $60 million but then play for the contract you signed and don't complain, especially publically. Prince knew (or should have known) that if he turned down the $60 million, he would not be getting a "bump" in the contract he signed. This combined with the IRS issues seem to show someone that has absolutely no clue how to manage money or handle contracts.

My guess is that this is a bit harsh on Prince. We don't know the timing of the 60M offer. It could have come AFTER his comments about the salary offer for this season. He also didn't "sign" the contract that he's currently playing under. It's just part of the baseball rules - so to speak. He doesn't have to like it. But, if he wants to play MLB he has to live with it. And finally, I have a hunch this IRS trouble is somehow connected to his Dad, and not necessarily his mis-management of money -- other than the fact that at one time he trusted his father --- not an altogether bad trait, unless your father is a dink, like Cecil apparently is.

 

I don't disagree with those that don't feel Prince should be priority #1. But, I just thought this post might've been a bit harsh on the lad.

[bcf5575]

so figure that the 60 mil must have been over 5 years and would buy out 1 year of free agency? probably something like:

 

08 - $8mil

09 - $10 mil

10 - $12 mil

11 -$14 mil

12 - $16 mil

 

I would assume tha t the 09-11 salaries are somewhat close to what he could expect in arbitration - so, he basically bet $60 mil in guaranteed money that he will strike it big in free agency in 2012 and make way more than $16 mil.

 

that proves to me that there is no way he will be a brewer in 2012. to turn that down means he is either stupid, greedy, or wants out of milwaukee. 1 freak play can ruin your career (ask corey koskie) - and if that happend he wont see any of this.

[tosabrewfan]

I do not believe that my previous post was too harsh on Prince. Prince understands (or Prince's agent understands) the rules of the baseball compensation game. I'm not issuing any judgment on whether the $60 million dollar offer was fair, or whether Prince should have rejected it - as Russ says, there is no way to know that from the information given. FWIW - I am still a big fan of Prince on the field, and I think that any criticism of his diet is ridiculous.

However, how can anyone excuse Prince for complaining about the amount of money he will be making this year? If he wanted more money now, then he could have negotiated a long-term contract. Why should the Brewers pay him more than they are obligated to this year? If he has a bad year after he reaches arbitration is he going to pay his salary back? Would you give the Brewers organization a pass if, after Prince has a bad year, they publicly state that they were not satisfied with Prince's performance and would like some of their money back? If not, why would are you giving Prince a pass?

I suspect, but do not know, that Prince was misled by his father - and that is really sad on a number of levels. But it doesn't excuse Prince from his actions in complaining about his salary this year.

[Glennron]

How long til he gets booed at Miller Park for getting out or something?

[lcbj68c]

People who think it's unreasonable for a ballplayer to try and maximize his salary is being unfair IMO. Every other American does it. Who gets to decide how much money is "enough"?

 

I absolutely couldn't agree more.

 

 

Boy, Fielder is making it easy not to be a huge fan of his. He's got to understand that, in a blue-collar, middle-class state, many people aren't going to understand turning down 60 million dollars and trying to credibly pose as if he's being disrespected... which seems to be his attitude...

 

I really don't like this argument that an athlete should alter his thinking because the state that drafted him has a tendency to be known as middle-class. There are middle-class, low-class, upper class people everywhere. Baseball is a very lucrative business. An athlete, a good athlete at that, should not expect to be paid less simply because the other people in the area consider themselves middle class. Similiarly, an engineer in Fargo, ND should be expected to be paid like an engineer in New York City, given they have similiar training and produce similiar results. Now, I believe there are arguments to be made as to whether the team should keep their costs low pre-arbitration, but Prince shouldn't expect to just "suck it up" because the people who live in the state in which he plays are middle class.

[rluzinski]

so, he basically bet $60 mil in guaranteed money that he will strike it big in free agency in 2012 and make way more than $16 mil.

 

That's probably not even the biggest reason why he didn't sign. He's probably thinking about being able to lock up a monster, 8 year deal 1 or 2 years earlier than he could if he agreed to the $60 mil deal. You want to call that greedy? Fine. An immigrant family might call a guy changing jobs to go from a $100k to $120k salary greedy, so it's all relative. I'm not going to judge anyone for chasing the American dream anyway they see fit. Prince doesn't owe me or the city of Milwaukee anything but his complete effort while under contract.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I really don't like this argument that an athlete should alter his thinking because the state that drafted him has a tendency to be known as middle-class. There are middle-class, low-class, upper class people everywhere. Baseball is a very lucrative business. An athlete, a good athlete at that, should not expect to be paid less simply because the other people in the area consider themselves middle class. Similiarly, an engineer in Fargo, ND should be expected to be paid like an engineer in New York City, given they have similiar training and produce similiar results. Now, I believe there are arguments to be made as to whether the team should keep their costs low pre-arbitration, but Prince shouldn't expect to just "suck it up" because the people who live in the state in which he plays are middle class.

Right, but let's not kid ourselves about how the public as a whole can/will feel...

 

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Lets do some quick math here

1) Offered $60M Guaranteed in 2008 = 100%

2) Offered $100M + in 2012.... 25%

 

Hmmmm, to me this is like two people putting $50M into a bet, and the winner gets $100M to be determined by a coin flip.

I ask again, what can someone do with $100M that they can't with $60M?

 

I'm a young professional in "year 2" of my first administrative position. I probably will make $125-150K/year if I wait until year 5 or 6 to "switch jobs" and will make approx $50K until then...

 

If i was given a chance to lock in my salary at $90-100K for the next TEN years, (even though i might then delay my chance at $150K) i would do it in a second. The argument about "maximizing salary is total bunk. We are talking about $60M dollars

[lcbj68c]

Right, but let's not kid ourselves about how the public as a whole can/will feel...

In part I think that's why brewerfan.net exists. To discuss things with informed, non-closed minded individuals and to inform and hopefully change the thinking of the uninformed masses. I realize you weren't saying this was how you feel, only how a majority of people will feel and I was just adding that I hate that general feeling as well. I wasn't calling you out specifically, believing that's how you felt.

[endaround]

But you don't know if it even was $60 million guaranteed. It could easily have been $8m in 2009, $10m in 2010, $12m in 2011 with $15m team options for 2012 and 2013. That would be a $60m contract that Fielder likely would have refused.

[bcf5575]

But you don't know if it even was $60 million guaranteed. It could easily have been $8m in 2009, $10m in 2010, $12m in 2011 with $15m team options for 2012 and 2013. That would be a $60m contract that Fielder likely would have refused.

very true - I was making some big assumptions in my post based on what I thought would have been a fair offer...

[TooLiveBrew]

I hate this pop psychologising. We have no idea how Prince was raised or what his father did to him. Some of the fragments we have heard are pretty bad though, so you judging him based on his not getting along with his father is bizarre. I remember seeing an article that said Cecil beat Prince's sister in public when she asked him about the divorce.

 

I think that in general people are far too confident that they can tell what a guy is 'like' by watching him play on TV & listening to him in interviews. The fans need to get off Prince's back. He's the best hitter this city has seen in a long time, and might wind up being the best that ever came through -- one obvious exception. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif Let's enjoy him while he's here -- because, as homer said, "maybe Prince doesn't want to be here but I really don't think it's obvious at all."

 

He's got his own life going on & I really don't feel that he owes me anything. The writing has been on the wall since he made Boras his agent. Enjoy him while he's here -- we're probably getting his best seasons anyway.

[olsonnet]

I don't think Prince wants to play here for any extended period of time anyway, no matter how much he's getting paid.

 

His body will deteriorate over time and injuries will start cropping up. Besides, 3TO can play 1B, right?

 

I really hope they didn't lowball Hart with his offer and make him less receptive to any future contract talks.

 

And agreed on TH doing an awful job by keeping these things quiet.

[PrimeTime955]

How the heck can anyone have any opinion of Fielder turning that contract down when we don't even know how many years it was for? If it was 6 years, it was a lowball offer. Even if it was a 5 year offer, it makes little sense for Prince to accept it. Why would he want to delay his first (and perhaps last?) big multi-contract by 2 years? He's less than a year away from being a mulitmillionaire anyway, so it's not like he's going to have any financial issues (if he even does right now) in the very near future. People who think it's unreasonable for a ballplayer to try and maximize his salary is being unfair IMO. Every other American does it. Who gets to decide how much money is "enough"?

 

Assuming a minor leaguer is deemed ready to step in, I wouldn't have any problem with the Brewers trading Prince this off season. He has a great stick but so does a lot of 1B. and when you consider his below average defense, his replacement doesn't have to match Prince's offensive value for the Brewers to still break even. You'd like to think that the Brewers could get quite the return for 3 years of Prince.

 

I don't see any point in signing Hardy to a long term deal. I'd love to sign Hart to a long term deal if he can be moved to CF (which I think he can handle). If he can't, is there even going to be room for him?

I don't always agree with you but I do with this post 100%. IMO it's the right thing to do to trade prince in the off season. Especially if we can't sign sheets the imagine the pitching return we could get for Prince. We might need it and with LaPorta in the wings its an easy decision to me.

 

[Roscoe Chill]

---I agree that Prince owes Milwaukee nothing.

 

But Prince has been griping about money. The Brewers have offered it to him. He has turned it down.

 

---Again, no big deal, his choice.

 

But if you don't think it's OBVIOUS that Prince doesn't want to stay one more day in Milwaukee than he has to, then god bless ya. He's made comments. He's made an even louder statement with not signing a long term deal after crying about not getting paid. You know Milwaukee is offering it to him. He wants out.

 

Now, that doesn't mean he wants out of Milwaukee because he hates Wisconsin. He wants out of Milwaukee, because he (his agent) thinks that New York, Boston, Los Angeles of Anaheim...SOME team is going to give him loads and loads of money instead of just loads that Milwaukee offered.

 

---Again, that's fine.

 

But he's not exactly following up his 2007 season with a 'wow' type of season. In fact, he's following up his 2007 season with a season he had in 2006. Good? Sure. But he aint 'making' any money this year. My guess is when he gets $6-$7 million next year he'll become a malcontent. That's just my guess.

 

Trade him. He's already had his best season anyway.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think it's time to start playing LaPorta at 1B in the minors because Prince wants that 9 figure deal and the Brewers don't have the capital to do such a thing. I don't think I'd sign Hardy or Weeks to long term deals until they prove a little bit more to the team. I'm still surprised that Hart isn't locked up. Maybe his agent wants to wait it out like Boras does. I really don't know much about that situation. I have a feeling our infield will be very different in 2010 if not 2009.

[Roscoe Chill]

Exactly. LaPorta and/or Gamel are going to be up next year. The guy doesn't want to be here. The team could probably get a major haul this off season...it's a no-brainer in my opinion.

[Tbadder]

The one thing we absolutely don't know is: was there a counter offer? What did Boras or Hart's agent come back with? If they didn't put numbers on the table I think that tells you something.

 

I think it is fair to criticize Prince and Hart quite frankly. I know lots of regular people, good people, who turn down bigger money because they are dedicated or believe in a cause, or are motivated by more magnaimous reasons. And those people didn't turn down the difference between 10 and 20 million a year. They turned down the difference between 50,000 and 150,000 dollars--money that truly would've made a difference.

 

The size of these contracts have every thing to do with what is right and wrong, especially now when so many people are hurting, when jobs are going overseas, when a permanent underclass is taking hold, etc. These outrageous contracts are an insult to fans as we are really the ones who pay Prince and Hart. It would be different if we were talking about the difference that guys like Flood and Messerschmidt fought for but Prince had only to sign that 60 million five year contract and retire before he was 30 years old--never had to work another day, forever. It is a complete slap in the face to people of good will everywhere and we have the right to criticze...

 

and be the naive chumps we really are as Boras and Prince laugh all the way to the bank.

[bigredrobbo]

TwinsBrewersWorldSeries wrote:

I ask again, what can someone do with $100M that they can't with $60M?

Buy something that costs $61 million ?

[rluzinski]

If people don't want professional athletes making so much money, they need to stop spending money on their sport and making them worth it. Econ 101.

[trwi7]

I think it's time to start playing LaPorta at 1B in the minors because

 

Just a note. LaPorta played 1B tonight for Huntsville. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

He's made comments. He's made an even louder statement with not signing a long term deal after crying about not getting paid. You know Milwaukee is offering it to him. He wants out.

 

Crying? Come on, NDOGG. He answered a direct question, and fans have blown it out of proportion. If it makes you feel better to say he "cried" about it, fine. But he didn't. That's just overblown -- comments? More like 'comment within the context of a direct question'

 

I know it's unpopular, but if I were in Prince's situation, I think I'd play it the same thus far. Why not opt against a contract extension when you play the very small risk of injury against the gigantic payoff of a $100M-ish contract? If Carlos Lee is a $100-M man, then Prince Fielder most certainly is.

[craigharmann]

When it comes to athletes and money, some make smart decisions, some make stupid decisions. Anyone remember Mr. Sprewell's line in turning down a big contract offer? "I gotta feed my children". And that decision (and statement) came back to bite Latrell right in the butt. This decision to turn down the money may come back to bite Prince in the rear in the long run, but we don't know that. I'm pleased that the Brewers made an offer to him and to Braun, and Braun took it. Prince didn't, that's his choice, and it tells us a lot about Prince and what he's thinking in regard to money and Milwaukee. I'm not upset, it is what it is. As long as he does his job, doesn't complain, and plays well, I'm happy.

[homer]

Corey Hart turned down a contract offer too. Does he want out of Milwaukee?

[RightFieldCoder]

What if the senario was thus:

 

DM offers Boras $60M over 5 years. Boras is looking for $50/4 or $75/6. Either way Prince is looking at 6 digits this year. DM decides he can't come close to Baras and submits a $400K contract that Prince has to accept. I think it's perfectly understandable that he would be upset and feel underpaid in that situation.