Fielder's value (and availability)

[Madtown Bomber]

I have read the many topics regarding Prince Fielder and his value. Tonight after the game ESPN 540 had on one of the insiders from ESPN, it wasn't Gammons but it was one of those guys, but anyways I believe it was Matt Salmon who asked if the Brewers were to trade a player like Fielder what could the Brewers get. The guy's answer was 6 players (a 2nd SP material, a 5th SP material, a left handed bat, and a closer and 2 high level prospects) MINIMUM for Prince Fielder and no team is willing to give all that up in the middle of the season and it is unlikely to happen in the offseason. The guy did say though that the Brewers continue to slide look for the bullpen to be unloaded by the deadline.

 

Big ante for Fielder.

[BucEbadger]

Im guessing if we decide to move Prince its gonna be NY coming in and offering Hughes, Kennedy/Brackman and 2 High prospects...

[Gobias Industries]

What are some logical destinations for Prince?

 

NYY of course. Seattle will be looking for a DH/1B soon with Sexson coming off the books soon.

[jjfanec]

If you assume only AL teams would want him because of his future price tag I think teams like NYY, Seattle, and LAA are top possibilities. However, you can't count teams like Toronto who don't mind spending and have a big hole at the position. NL teams are a little harder to project with Prince looking destined for the DH role, but some team may like that they get him for 3 years and then could flip him at the deadline for something. If a team is in a win now mode for the next two or three years Prince could end up in the NL as well. Then the door opens up for a lot of teams to jump in.

[twobrewers]

Prince its gonna be NY coming in and offering Hughes, Kennedy/Brackman and 2 High prospects

NY wouldn't offer that for Prince.

 

It would be much easier for them to just sign Texeira as a free agent this off season than unload their farm system. Texeira's pending free agency really limit's Prince's value.

That said, Prince will obviously result in a decent haul. But I would think the Texas/Atlanta trade of Texeira is a good basis for Prince's value.

[Gobias Industries]

twobrewers wrote:

It would be much easier for them to just sign Texeira as a free agent this off season than unload their farm system. Texeira's pending free agency really limit's Prince's value.

I don't think that Fielder will be traded this off-season. After the 09 season seems like the time to do it. Especially if he continues to have a down year.

 

NYY are going to need a 1B and a DH in the next couple years, so even if they sign Teixera, I still wouldn't count them out for being a destination for Prince.

[twobrewers]

Certainly true. But it does at least lessen the chance of NY being interested in Prince.

 

I know Buster Olney from ESPN said he thought Prince would be traded after this year. Given Prince's complain about his contract, his attitude so far this year, Boras as his agent, and a possibly ugly arbitration hearing - it unfortunately seems possible.

[sbrylski]

I know Buster Olney from ESPN said he thought Prince would be traded after this year. Given Prince's complain about his contract, his attitude so far this year, Boras as his agent, and a possibly ugly arbitration hearing - it unfortunately seems possible.

 

I'm pretty sure Olney said after 2009, which makes sense.

 

And I don't think his contract will have anything to do with him wanting to get out of town, at least not right now. We want to give him money, its his choice to go year to year. He'll earn the same amount here than he will anywhere else over the following three seasons.

[bork]

Seattle will be looking for a DH/1B soon with Sexson coming off the books soon.

Does Seatle want another former Brewer? Cirillo and Sexson weren't too popular or productive there.

[Roscoe Chill]

Didn't Olney say for sure after 2009, but that he thought it would be after this year?

[sbrylski]

Didn't Olney say for sure after 2009, but that he thought it would be after this year?

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Seeing as how our rebuild is appearing to be going a little off track, it might make sense to do a quick re-tool next season. Sheets gone, Fielder gone, Braun and hopefully Hart locked in long term, Gallardo gets back on track. Then we've got 2009 to figure out what to do in the MIF, CF, C, and pitching behind Gallardo. Dissapointing it would be, but I'd rather win 75 next season than 83 if it helps us win 90 two seasons from now.

[southpaw121505]

I dont get why we'd be destined to be worse off without him. Unless he has a terrible year that lowers his value some, I'd definitely listen this off-season. We need more quality arms, moving him is the most logical way to get top flight arm(s).

 

 

LaPorta + pitching from Prince trade > Prince

[Never Outhustled]

I agree Southpaw. Dealing Fielder isn't like when we dealt Lee or Sexson, and we had no in house replacements. Its more like when we dealt Overbay, but we're dealing a much more valuable player. We dealing from a position of strength. Prince will be replaced by 1 of the Matts, and both are outstanding hitters. Defensively, we could replace Prince if we just stuck a beer mug at 1st for the infielders to try to throw to.

 

I think I could make a decent argument that the team would have more wins if 1 of the Matts had played 1B all season so far. They'd put up an OPS pretty close to the 797 Fielder has struggled to, and obviously anyone would be a massive upgrade defensively.

 

Fielders slump has no impact on his trade value, teams no what he is capable of. The Brewers will get topflight pitching in return. I just hope Melvin trades for quality instead of quantity this time. He needs to deal for players that will be part of our core, something he hasn't done in the past.

[brewjihad]

Though it would be nice to be able to get lots of young pitching for Prince, it's kinda an awkward situation. Good AL teams that are legit contenders are the ones that would want him, but they aren't usually willing to give up the kind of pitching prospects we need in return for him at this point.

 

And a side note:

 

1 of the Matts

 

Grammar wise, how would you write this correctly when one is Mat and the other is Matt? I would vote for one of the Mat(t)s http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[southpaw121505]

In my eyes its simple, this team will not really compete unless quality pitching is added. If Sheets leaves that point only magnifies. The best way to add these arms is through trade, since its highly unlikely through FA. We have enough back of the rotation guys, we need another frontline guy, and a closer. Prince is so logical to move to me cause he'd bring the highest quality arm(s) back, we have his replacement(s) ready, and he's not interested in signing here, and I'm glad considering what the price tag will be. Bottom line, we will not compete as long as 4/5 of our rotation are 4th or 5th starters at best.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I was hoping Prince could bring in a centerpiece of Nick Adenhart or maybe David Price with other quality players.

[paul253]

I think we should wait until after this draft to see what happens. I think we'll go with pitching in at least 4 of those top 6 choices, possible more. Obviously you can never have too much pitching, but if we get 3 solid prospects from this draft, maybe we can ask for one pitcher and some other positions of need (catching, second base). I have always thought LaPorta would replace Fielder, so it'll be nice if we can get a huge haul in return for Fielder.

[southpaw121505]

I would love to try and get Price, even if Prince is the cost. Then send SF a prospect package for Cain. I'd feel a lot better about our chances going forward with a rotation like that even with the (potential) loss of offense from Prince to Mat(t)

 

Gallardo

Price

Cain

Parra

Suppan/Bush/CV

 

*drool*

[ILuvDaBush]

To rule out any team because Texeira is going to be a FA is ludicrous, however. Would you rather give up a prospect package that cost you $5-10mil (and that's on the high side) or shell out 150+mil for Tex? Truth be told, I don't really think Hughes holds nearly as much value as was once theorized, but then again, the New York hype machine tends to do that. Honestly, I would think that the logical trade partners would all come from the AL East. Baltimore could use a huge influx of power, but I doubt they have the pieces. Torontoo and NYY would have the pieces, but they're not disposable. On the other hand, Tampa Bay and Boston would both be able to put together quite the prmium package without unduly burdening their future, as they have more young pitching than they have spots.

 

Clay and Masterson would be a good centerpiece for the BoSox or Price/Davis for the Rays. Some may say that's asking for too much, but outside of a no-hitter and one good start by Masterson, they haven't really put their stamp on the majors, while Price and Davis are still languishing in the minors. If given my choice, I would probably choose the Red Sox's package, but Tampa's would have arguably the higher ceiling.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I would love to try and get Price, even if Prince is the cost. Then send SF a prospect package for Cain. I'd feel a lot better about our chances going forward with a rotation like that even with the (potential) loss of offense from Prince to Mat(t)

The problem with that idea is that if you trade Prince, you need LaPorta and any trade to get Matt Cain would probably have to involve Matt LaPorta so we'd have no one left for 1B unless you put Gamel there or something assuming he wasn't traded.

[southpaw121505]

You are probably right that it is wishful thinking to get Cain without using Gamel or LaPorta. A big part of me being ok with moving Fielder is me assuming Gamel and LaPorta are going to soften the blow to the offense.

[twobrewers]

To rule out any team because Texeira is going to be a FA is ludicrous, however. Would you rather give up a prospect package that cost you $5-10mil (and that's on the high side) or shell out 150+mil for Tex?

Some of the major market teams would prefer to shell out $150+ million for Texeira and keep their prospects.

 

When money isn't an issue, why trade away assets?

[Gopher74]

In my eyes its simple, this team will not really compete unless quality pitching is added. We have enough back of the rotation guys, we need another frontline guy, and a closer. Prince is so logical to move to me cause he'd bring the highest quality arm(s) back, we have his replacement(s) ready, and he's not interested in signing here, and I'm glad considering what the price tag will be. Bottom line, we will not compete as long as 4/5 of our rotation are 4th or 5th starters at best.

I don't think that quality pitching "has" to be added. I just think that with the current pitching, we need guys to realize their potential and stay healthy. A rotation of Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Bush and then Suppan/McClung/Capuano/Villanueva could be average or above average in each slot being very, very good at the back.

Sheets is a average ace IMO as I'd rank him somewhere around 10-15 when he's healthy(at least).

Yo's a very good number 2. Could be one of the top 5 number 2's.

Parra's got ace stuff. Bush could be a fantastic number 4. McClung's also got front of the rotation stuff. Villy's got number 3 stuff. Suppan's a very good middle to back of the rotation type guy. Cappy's had success.

So yes, I think that this team needs to pitch better, and that's very likely going to requite adding pitching, but to say that this team cannot compete with the pitchers they have now I think is premature since Yo, Manny, Villy, and McClung all have a lot of room to work within their potential.

 

Now this isn't to say that I don't agree with your larger point. I absolutely do. In the above scenario that pitching is good enough provided most things go right, most pitchers realize their potential and we're a good offensive club. Those are too many things to have to count on for me, however my position is still that this team's pitching COULD be good enough.

 

And I'm with you, I'd really like to see Prince dealt for a pitching prospect, and not just a good one, a great one. A Porcello type with a Zumaya type reliever thrown in. That would be those two, Broxton and Kershaw, Adenhart and maybe Saunders(Though neigher is a reliever). And they should be cheap. Otherwise I fear the Brewers are going to sign Prince. I don't make this deal because I don't think we can sign him. There's absolutely no question we CAN. It's whether we should, and how badly that's going to adversely effect Hart, Weeks, Yo, Parra, ect..ect..

Bottom line, we will not compete as long as 4/5 of our rotation are 4th or 5th starters at best.

Which pitchers in our rotation right now at "at best" just 4 or 5's? Parra? Certainly not. McClung? Nope. I think you're overstating this. Right now I'd call both 4/5's, and McClung not even that, and they may never reach that potential, but "at best" taken literally, they're far more than that.

[GAME05]

at first i was of the thinking that you lock up your young players whenever you can, but i'm really starting to fall into the Billy Beane camp that if you've got a star prospect in the wings, you trade the player above him, no matter who he is. And that means Fielder, because Gamel would take his place. i think that hte $10M we wouldn't have to spend in arbitration, plus the Kershaw-level prospect we'd get, we'd be a better overall team. i also think that Fielder doesn't have a ton more years left that he'll be able to play defense. And then assuming Weeks stays at 2nd for the forseeable future, that's about zero range on the right side of the diamond.

 

I think hugely of Sheets, that he's one of the best in the NL when he's healthy, though i don't think too much of Villy, and Parra needs a couple more years of experience yet before i think he sees his potential. and not that it ever hurts to add quality pitching, no matter who's in our rotation right now.

[Gopher74]

And then assuming Weeks stays at 2nd for the forseeable future, that's about zero range on the right side of the diamond.

I don't think Weeks is a great defender yet, nor do I think he will ever be, but his range much improved. He's made some plays this year that I don't believe anyone in the organization save for Escobar could make.

That's not to say that I don't think we'd benefit from improved defense at 1st. I think it goes without saying that we would. Prince truly is awful over there.