Bush has to STAY (was Bush has to go)

[iluvlamp]

Bush has such great stuff. He whip is great. His KtoBb is great. Those damn homers. I have always liked Bush but will say I have hated him. I thought he could become a #2 and still kinda think that.

[craigharmann]

Bush stepped up huge when it was big-boy time. No homers, no big innings, just an excellent outing, to hopefully set up a win today. He did everything that was asked of him.

[RyDogg66]

That's my Bush. Love the guy and have been a big proponent of his since we acquired him. He had a rough start this season and I almost lost hope, but he has had a fantastic last 2/3 of a season.

[razzzorsharp]

His spot next year should be secured in the rotation no matter what in Spring Training.

[TooLiveBrew]

Bush stepped up huge when it was big-boy time. No homers, no big innings, just an excellent outing, to hopefully set up a win today. He did everything that was asked of him.

And if it wasn't for a blown call on Corey Hart's amazing catch at/into the wall, he would have had a chance to at least finish that 6th inning. I was so pissed at the umpires on that one. I was at an Ohio State alum-owned sportsbar last night for both the OSU-UW & Brewers game. I nearly lost my voice entirely, and honestly a huge chunk of the damage came as I was irate about that missed call. Once Bush was lifted for Stetter -- which was a move I was glad that Sveum made -- I really got steamed about the umps.

 

And RyDogg, love the reference in your first line!

[BrewCrewForever]

I was very hard on Dave earlier in the year. But I could never deny his great stuff and he carries a fantastic WHIP. The HR and the "big inning" have always been his problem. When he channels them he is damn good. No doubt he will be in the rotation next season. What an awesome performance by him last night. I will never forget it.

[Ennder]

And if it wasn't for a blown call on Corey Hart's amazing catch at/into the wall, he would have had a chance to at least finish that 6th inning. I was so pissed at the umpires on that one. I was at an Ohio State alum-owned sportsbar last night for both the OSU-UW & Brewers game. I nearly lost my voice entirely, and honestly a huge chunk of the damage came as I was irate about that missed call. Once Bush was lifted for Stetter -- which was a move I was glad that Sveum made -- I really got steamed about the umps.

 

And RyDogg, love the reference in your first line!

I went back and watched the archived mlb.com footage and he dropped the ball so not really sure how the call is botched. I was at the game and really pissed at the time since I didn't see it fall though. Bush is a solid #4 and I'd imagine he is back next year. Just hope he figures out how to pitch on the road at some point.

[dadofandrew]

He's back unless his value is a ton on the trade market. He's young, athletic, and effective, so he might be of interest to a team priced out of the FA market. He could help bring a LH OBP bat as part of a package.

 

He's a solid major league pitcher. Why anyone would change their mind after a bad outing or two is beyond me.

[TooLiveBrew]

I went back and watched the archived mlb.com footage and he dropped the ball so not really sure how the call is botched.

 

He dropped the ball, but well after he'd secured it in his glove. He dropped it as he was already laying on the ground, iirc as he started to reach for the ball in his glove. If he had dropped it as he was falling back from the wall, I would agree it wasn't a catch.

 

 

EDIT: TBS had a great replay & angle of the Hart play at the wall last night. Not sure if that was the clip you saw on MLB.com or not.

[dadofandrew]

By rule bookm definition, you gotta basically take the ball out of your glove.

[Ennder]

I went back and watched the archived mlb.com footage and he dropped the ball so not really sure how the call is botched.

 

He dropped the ball, but well after he'd secured it in his glove. He dropped it as he was already laying on the ground, iirc as he started to reach for the ball in his glove. If he had dropped it as he was falling back from the wall, I would agree it wasn't a catch.

 

 

EDIT: TBS had a great replay & angle of the Hart play at the wall last night. Not sure if that was the clip you saw on MLB.com or not.

No, I went back and watched the archived raw footage of the game. Wasn't the greatest angle and I had been drinking so maybe it wasn't the best viewing~

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Bush came on and turned a horrible year into a pretty darn good one, but he can't start next year like he did this year or the Brewers won't be going very far. We need the good Dave Bush to show up for the whole 2009. It's amazing what kind of year he could have had if he wouldn't have carried a 6 ERA into June.

[TooLiveBrew]

Bush came on and turned a horrible year into a pretty darn good one, but he can't start next year like he did this year or the Brewers won't be going very far

 

You mean like only making the playoffs? He was very good in his postseason start, too.

[sweepscc]

Dave Bush doesn't HAVE to stay or go. He isn't the core of the Brewer's future. We always seem to get caught up in the hype, e.g. Bill Hall, Brady Clark, Derrick Turnbow, etc. He's an average to slightly above average pitcher. That's fine, he's a good 4 or 5 on a playoff team. But if for instance Melvin puts him a package this winter, etc I'm not going to be outraged.

[joepepsi]

Bush is going to be a very rich man in a couple years.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

You mean like only making the playoffs? He was very good in his postseason start, too.

No. I was referring to that Bush was having a horrible year until he turned it around.

[PeaveyFury]

No. I was referring to that Bush was having a horrible year until he turned it around.

 

But I think his point was that Bush did the same thing this year, and the Brewers still made the playoffs.

[ILuvDaBush]

Along the Pepsi-Man's line of thought, when are we going to extend Bush? I'm very much hoping that they extend him a Sharpie-style (Doug Davis) contract this offseason, in lieu of Arby's. 4/28mil would have to be a good starting point.

[rluzinski]

Over the last two years, Bush's K rate has lowered and his walk rate has raised. He's Brewer property for 2 more years. No need to extend him.

[Ennder]

Over the last two years, Bush's K rate has lowered and his walk rate has raised. He's Brewer property for 2 more years. No need to extend him.

I agree. The odd thing is that every year since he became a Brewer he has become a slightly worse as a SP but now suddenly people want to re-sign him instead of DFA him. ERA is a fickle stat and I sure hope our management uses better stats/scouting to judge our pitchers.

[joepepsi]

Over the last two years, Bush's K rate has lowered and his walk rate has raised. He's Brewer property for 2 more years. No need to extend him.

I agree. The odd thing is that every year since he became a Brewer he has become a slightly worse as a SP but now suddenly people want to re-sign him instead of DFA him. ERA is a fickle stat and I sure hope our management uses better stats/scouting to judge our pitchers.

It's a delicate balance between overvaluing a league average pitcher (Suppan) and underestimating his value (Doug Davis). Bush provided16 quality starts out of 29, not counting two 5 inning starts late in September when he gave up 2 and 3 runs respectively. Bush has averaged 31 starts over his last 3 seasons, 190+ innings. You can't just throw that away willy-nilly. Add in that he never gets injured and you have a valuable 4th starter. If the Brewers let him go through arby he might make Suppan money as a free agent. If they try and sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal this winter the dollars should stay reasonable.

[Ennder]

Oh I agree he is a valuable #4, it is just kind of funny that as Bush regresses the fanbase wants to keep him more. 2008 for Dave Bush was a lucky BABIP and that is about it. He had a BABIP of .245 compared to his career rate of .293. His 2007 was the same, he had a .327 BABIP which drove up his ERA and WHIP. Pitchers who dont' K a ton and give up a lot of extra base hits are always going to be at the whim of BABIP so Bush will probably always be like this.

[Fatter than Joey]

Over the last two years, Bush's K rate has lowered and his walk rate has raised. He's Brewer property for 2 more years. No need to extend him.

 

I agree with this - while I think Bush is solid, I am pretty sure he will always be a pitcher with his warts, and significant ones at that.

[joepepsi]

Oh I agree he is a valuable #4, it is just kind of funny that as Bush regresses the fanbase wants to keep him more. 2008 for Dave Bush was a lucky BABIP and that is about it. He had a BABIP of .245 compared to his career rate of .293. His 2007 was the same, he had a .327 BABIP which drove up his ERA and WHIP. Pitchers who dont' K a ton and give up a lot of extra base hits are always going to be at the whim of BABIP so Bush will probably always be like this.

Count me as one of his supporters throughout his tenure. His K rate decline is troubling.

 

Here's a question for debate. Since the trade essentially ended up Bush for Overbay, who got the better end of the deal? Who is more valuable, a league average position player or a league average starting pitcher?

[trwi7]

Here's a question for debate. Since the trade essentially ended up Bush for Overbay, who got the better end of the deal?

Brewers easily. Jackson was a key piece in the Sabathia deal. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif