Bush has to STAY (was Bush has to go)

[KCBrewerfan34]

Guys not sure this has been posted,

 

Do we have any options? Bush is just awful. Is anyone (not Weaver) a possibility in the minors? We need him out of the rotation like last week but what can we do?

[BREWCREW5]

Bush is really bad. I hate to say it boys but 2008 is not the Brewers year. We have a "closer by committee", Gallardo is done for the year and Fielder is on pace to have a big time down year. What a dissappointment.

[Beast Light]

Bush is downright terrible. I have been saying it forever but for some reason, there are people that are unwilling to give up on him. I realize that his BB/K ratio is great but batters hit 300+ against him and half of the hits he gives up seem to be HR's.

 

The Brewers should be looking over the minors to see if there is someone that can take Bush's place in the rotation. If no one in the minors gets the chance, perhaps they should give DeFelice an audition.

 

I also agree with the "no to Weaver" comment. Weaver would be just as bad and has no business playing on a Major League team.

[Hate those Rodents]

There's a guy by the last name of Vargas that could give quality innings and keep his era under 5. He'd be a good option for us, however, he is not an option for us...

[Beast Light]

What is Tomo Ohka up to?

[stoutdude04]

While I didnt get to watch him tonite. His starts are veryyyyy inflated. If hes kept in the rotation I would assume his stats would begin to get closer to his career norms. Will he keep getting that chance? Not sure. I thought I saw somewhere that the Pirates offense has done pretty well this year. I would assume they were due to score some runs this series. Just a thought.

[lcbj68c]

You can spray paint a turd, but it's still called poop.

[Beast Light]

Maybe we could replace Bush with a batting tee. If anything, the tee would help to deaden the ball....

[stoutdude04]

There's a guy by the last name of Vargas that could give quality innings and keep his era under 5. He'd be a good option for us, however, he is not an option for us...

 

His career era is 4.95. Pitched 5 innings in his last start, gave up 4 runs.(small sample I know) Bush's whip is about the same as last year, his BAA is quite a bit lower. Without looking, I would guess he might have had a touch of bad luck with some bad pitches. This is just a quick look at a few stats before tonites start of course.

[Blindcheck]

I am ready for The Brewers to give Weaver three starts to see what he can do...If he goes 0-3...well, it is what we would have gotten from Bush...Maybe, just maybe, he will realize this might be his last chance and pitch with a chip on his shoulder and give us some quality innings.,

[Beast Light]

His career era is 4.95. Pitched 5 innings in his last start, gave up 4 runs.(small sample I know) Bush's whip is about the same as last year, his BAA is quite a bit lower. Without looking, I would guess he might have had a touch of bad luck with some bad pitches. This is just a quick look at a few stats before tonites start of course.

This is what I don't understand about Bush. Why do people always try to pass his failures off as bad luck? Here are some stats that are important to me:

 

2007 ERA: 5.12

2008 ERA: 6.56

 

Career ERA: 4.66

 

That is not good and he is showing now signs of improving. While a 4.66 ERA may be acceptable for a pitcher that you are going to plug into the 5th spot, a good team should constantly be looking to upgrade such a pitcher.

[hauser42]

Bush has to be moved out of the rotation. If you take out CV for poor performance you have to treat Bush the same way.

 

Weaver has to be the next guy in line. So is not killing him in AAA, but maybe being up in the bigs will realize what he is missing and give the team some quality outings. There is not much out down on the farm to help and McClung starting is a joke IMO.

 

Vargas sure would look good on the staff right now, but the anti-Vargas gang could not have gotten him out of town sooner.

[stoutdude04]

That is not good and he is showing now signs of improving. While a 4.66 ERA may be acceptable for a pitcher that you are going to plug into the 5th spot, a good team should constantly be looking to upgrade such a pitcher.

While I dont like to judge a pitcher by ERA. Im not sure how many teams have "a number 5" pitcher that are much better then a 4.6 ERA.

[danzig6767]

This is the same Dave Bush we saw last year.

 

Bush frustrates me more than any pitcher on the staff. The guy can absolutely cruise through multiple innings very quickly without allowing many or any baserunners, then at some point the floodgates open. He puts a runner or two on and then starts serving up tasty meatballs right over the heart of the plate that get smoked for homers or extra base hits. Next thing you know, what looked like could be a high quality start ends up in another Brewers loss after Bush implodes.

 

I had high hopes for Bush after his first year with us. The ERA wasn't great, but his secondary numbers gave me reason to think he was better than the ERA of that season. Those hopes have completely vanished for me, Bush simply leaves to many extremely hittable pitches over the heart of the plate that get smacked hard.

[wibadgers23]

Why not give Steve Hammond a shot? He's got pretty good numbers in Huntsville this year. Anybody but Dave Bush please.

[stoutdude04]

Bush frustrates me more than any pitcher on the staff. The guy can absolutely cruise through multiple innings very quickly without allowing many or any baserunners, then at some point the floodgates open.

I feel the same way. I just dont think there are any options that are better then him. Weaver? No thank you. At least with Bush you might get one of those games where he does cruise for a quality start. I just dont see anyone else doing that.

 

 

(edit: pared back long quote --1992)

[Brewbadger]

Anyone still having thoughts of the "Bush for closer" campaign? As has been pointed out, he can cruise through multiple innings, and is generally halfway decent in the first inning...could be a legitimate closer and if not, he shouldn't be any worse than our current situation.

[Beast Light]

While I dont like to judge a pitcher by ERA. Im not sure how many teams have "a number 5" pitcher that are much better then a 4.6 ERA.

If Bush did have a 4.6 ERA, he wouldn't be that bad in the 5th spot. The fact of the matter, however, is that last year he was at 5+ and he is now at 6.56. The guy is giving us no chance to win and even his secondary numbers appear to be regressing. Here is a list of guys that I would prefer to give a shot:

 

Luis Martinez

Ben Hendrickson

Rueben Quevedo

[pete]

This is the same Dave Bush we saw last year.

 

 

He puts a runner or two on and then starts serving up tasty meatballs right over the heart of the plate that get smoked for homers or extra base hits.

 

http://nowheyjose.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/meatballs.jpg

[TooLiveBrew]

I am ready for The Brewers to give Weaver three starts to see what he can do...If he goes 0-3...well, it is what we would have gotten from Bush...Maybe, just maybe, he will realize this might be his last chance and pitch with a chip on his shoulder and give us some quality innings.

 

Do you remember his start May 12th? 87 pitches to go 6 innings -- 4 H, 1 ER 2 BB, 1 SO. I don't think we have any better choice, and I also still don't think that Dave is as bad as he's been lately (though I am beginning to have my doubts). I hope his start at StL wasn't a fluke. Each of his last 5 starts have been 6 IP. That's not without value in the way MLB plays.

[TerraceReserved]

This is what I don't understand about Bush. Why do people always try to pass his failures off as bad luck?

Becuase we believe that a lot of his failures have been becuase of bad luck. ERA, over a year or two of work, is greatly influenced by luck and things outside a pitchers control. So looking at the stuff that a pitcher has the most control over (BB's, K's HR) is a truer indication of how a guy pitched.

 

This year though, he's bitten Bush advocates in the butt. His K's are down, BB's up, and HR's up. His FIP was 5.85 before tonights game, compared to a 4.36 career FIP before this year. My geuss is that he'll improve and regress UP toward the mean, back to the way he's pitched the past 4 years.

[Hate those Rodents]

Bush and Gagne's pitching and Ned's managing decisions all are just bad luck imho.

[Postseason2006]

What is Tomo Ohka up to?

 

I think 5'10".

 

Thanks for the laughs Beast. I am crying right now for your posts in the thread.

[pete]

You're talking about rules of thumb to make estimates. Just because Bush had some good peripheral at some point, it isn't logical to conclude that he was unlucky.

 

And the whole "regression to the mean" is a misuse of the term. It isn't appropriate to use for performance events. Its used for things like coin flips. He could be performing more in line with his true ability right now. Luck probably has little to do with it over such a significant time period. If you let him start over and over and over, his performance now may be "average" for him.

 

And ERA is a good measure as well.

[Postseason2006]

Bush is very unlucky. If his pitches would have luckily went into the right spots, he would have a better ERA.