Blogger claiming Yost fired (5/19, Simmons will be named) - Latest: Ned still manager

[SeriesFinale]

Yeah, now that you mention it, today is really starting to feel like the day we supposedly "traded for Adam Dunn".

Man, that was a great day. "My friend saw Turnbow and Wise run into the dugout. This means we traded for Dunn."

Haha, good memories. Were it so.

 

Anyway, I do think it is a good question just who is this Badger Blogger and why anyone should believe him. He basically makes a claim that doesn't seem altogether outrageous with absolutely no proof to back it up and people lapped it up like gospel.

[jazzytrav]

What I find strange is that if this Badger Blogger actually wanted Yost fired, he/she may have prevented it from happening today just by trying to beat the rest of the world to it.

[bklynbrewcrew]

"(Owner) Mark Attanasio and I sat six feet from Ned (at Fenway Park) and we saw him cheering and rooting on his palyers. He was on the top step, trying to get the guys going. When players don['t perform well, they will hang their heads at times. Ned was there to make sure that didn't happen.

 

"He doesn't sit back on the bench. He's a cheerleader, on the top step, showing them he's behind them."

 

How much does cheerleading actually have to do with a manager's duties? Couldn't that be described as a bench coach's duties? If Melvin is convinced that a manager rah-rah-ing his players is one of the position's top responsibilities, that concerns me.

Its comments like this from Melvin that make me think he is becoming as clueless as his manager. If Melvin actually think that Ned cheering his players on is a reason to keep him then it is time for Melvin to be fired as well.

[Brewer Killa]

"(Owner) Mark Attanasio and I sat six feet from Ned (at Fenway Park) and we saw him cheering and rooting on his palyers. He was on the top step, trying to get the guys going. When players don['t perform well, they will hang their heads at times. Ned was there to make sure that didn't happen.

 

"He doesn't sit back on the bench. He's a cheerleader, on the top step, showing them he's behind them."

 

How much does cheerleading actually have to do with a manager's duties? Couldn't that be described as a bench coach's duties? If Melvin is convinced that a manager rah-rah-ing his players is one of the position's top responsibilities, that concerns me.

Well a manager isnt there to teach fielding, baserunning, and how to make productive outs. Which is what some think he has to do. But I have read that it IS his job to get the team fired up. What else does a manager do besides write out a lineup card and then make a few changes during the game? He deals with the attitudes and getting people in the right mind to play everyday. Managing the egos and what not. So I dont know what you are trying to say here.

 

Well I am one that believes firing Ned will do absolutely nothing. Give any manager a team that hits, pitches and plays defense as poorly as us and they are not winning. San Diego and Washington are two teams below us in batting and they have worse records so you could say Ned has done a good job with how we have played. I don't see how anyone can say firing Ned is going to fix our problems. His job is put a lineup out there, make the changes, and call a few steals and a hit and run. When you give up 10 runs in a game and only get 7 hits, I dont know how you can do that.

 

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do. But it will do nothing to solve our problems. I am ok with a change but not now. No point in doing it now. Wait till after the season and then go from there. But now I just see so many problems and Ned does not make us play this poorly. We have much bigger issues than him right now. Evaluating the talent and deciding how we are going to move forward.

[jazzytrav]

Man, the posters commenting on TH's last blog sure have a thing for him. Geez, wipe your nose off a little.

[BrewCrewForever]

After hearing those comments from TH's latest blog on what Melvin said I have zero confidence that Yost will be fired today. I guess we will probably be putting up with him for at least 7 more games.

[jhart05]

I have to side with "Brewer Killa" there.

 

I'd rather have Yost encouraging them for the good things they're doing, over yelling at them for everything they're doing wrong right now.

 

Especially in the dugout, where everyone can see.

[TooLiveBrew]

What else does a manager do besides write out a lineup card and then make a few changes during the game?

 

He manages SP/RP usage, has input on roster moves like callups, helps formulate scouting reports (I'd hope), and I'm sure much more that I don't know, including player morale -- I just disagree that the morale angle is or should be near the top of the list, and further disagree that it's just 'mak[ing] a few changes during the game'. That kind of roster management is crucial to a team's success.

 

 

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do.

 

Does it matter if it's cool or not? I think both sides of the debate have very relevant points.

[jazzytrav]

What else does a manager do besides write out a lineup card and then make a few changes during the game?

Then all managers are severely overpaid.

 

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do.

I don't see any reason to say something like this. I don't agree with your opinion, but I understand why you've come to that opinion. I just don't think it's necessary to make it seem like we're just jumping on some kind of cool kid's bandwagon.

[jhart05]

"I just disagree that the morale angle is or should be near the top of the list"

Under normal circumstances, maybe, but these are not normal circumstances the players are dealing with right now.
They are getting booed in their own park. People all around town are talking about how much they stink. Plus they know they're playing poorly.

I don't know, if I were on the team, I would appreciate a little encouragement from somewhere.

 

[FVBrewerFan]

What else does a manager do besides write out a lineup card and then make a few changes during the game?

 

He manages SP/RP usage, has input on roster moves like callups, helps formulate scouting reports (I'd hope), and I'm sure much more that I don't know, including player morale -- I just disagree that the morale angle is or should be near the top of the list, and further disagree that it's just 'mak[ing] a few changes during the game'. That kind of roster management is crucial to a team's success.

 

 

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do.

 

Does it matter if it's cool or not? I think both sides of the debate have very relevant points.

 

I agree, the subtle part of managing is the toughest. If it were easy, anyone could do it. There are lots of ways a manager can help the team that aren't a direct cause and effect. (Like when to remove the SP, when to bunt, etc..) One quick example. You have a plyer who time and time again reaches for a breaking ball off the outside corner. A good manager will understand how best to get that player to understand what he's doing, why he's doing it, and how to change. Every player is different, and will respond differently. Those of you who manage people know this to be true.

 

There is no way to prove or disprove how Ned can get guys to hit over .200 or have a WHIP under 1.50. But a good manager finds a way to get the most out of his players over time. I don't see that happening with the Brewers.

[pete]

If you ask me, the "cool" thing to do is to defend Ned Yost.

 

I think its pretty natural to dislike him based on his public persona which is acidic and the lame way he defends his actions. I think its pretty easy to make an argument that he is a pretty good manager, yet he is unpopular or at least that's my impression.

[jazzytrav]

I think its pretty natural to dislike him based on his public persona which is acidic and the lame way he defends his actions.

 

Actually, it's the actions themselves that make it easy to dislike him. The lame way he defends those actions is just the topper.

[ELCABALLO45]

I just want him to be fired and get it done with. Its obvious we are not going anywhere with him and I just want to fire him and get it over with.

[PKBadger]

If bashing Ned Yost is cool....then consider me Miles Davis.

[polwonks]

shameless repost of item on Tom's blog:

 

From my vantage point- Ned has a Pollyannish public face about this team - "we all go through hard times, they're battlers, they come to play every day, no one's perfect ..."

Truth is- he isn't inspiring the club, he wants to be loved so he backs everybody up all the time, there's no sense of accountability, e.g. guys are benched "for a rest" not because "they're not producing" (note how the TV broadcast crew can't even bring themselves to comment on the team's shortfalls, e.g. Ricky's wild swings with 2 strikes- I gain much more perspective from the out-of -market broadcasts on MLB.com.) Somebody noted a ways back that the team seems to be going through the motions. The results would suggest that's the case, and that Ryan's comments are making that permissive/enabling atmosphere an issue. Not sure it's time to throw the bats in the shower, but it does seem that Ned has lost the ability to motivate the club and instill some sense of urgency, driven perhaps too much by feeling like he's one of the boys, not the manager, and empathizing too much. Hooking pitchers earlier, risking angering ball players by benching them occasionally- at least it looks like you're not satisfied with performance and expect more. The Gagne episode was truly ridiculous- how much respect do I get from my players when I relent after 48 hours? Hey- if Mom won't say yes, maybe I'll talk to Dad. Ryan's clearly sending a message to management- we need someone with fire in the gut and the ability to convey that urgency in a respectful and firm way.

 

Not realistic to think you remake people at this stage in life, and I don't know who the likely candidates are, but it intrigues me to think that going to Robin Yount or Pauly and offering them the world might not be a bad place to start. Connect with the historic pride of the organization and the sense of obligation to be prepared and produce or accept the consequences- which will come. Cue Leo Durocher on the standings.

[giffted1]

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do. But it will do nothing to solve our problems. I am ok with a change but not now. No point in doing it now. Wait till after the season and then go from there. But now I just see so many problems and Ned does not make us play this poorly. We have much bigger issues than him right now. Evaluating the talent and deciding how we are going to move forward.

That's pretty much right on. Our teams problems are much bigger than Yost. Yost does make stupid mistakes like DH-ing Gwynn yesterday, but moves like that aren't why were in last place. We're in last place because our hitters don't get on-base, our pitchers walk a lot of people, and our defense stinks.

 

Bashing Yost has become the cool thing to do because people have convinced themselves or been tricked into thinking that firing him will be a simple fix to the teams problems. It won't be.

[iluvlamp]

The funny thing about this whole thing is why TH would even bring it up in his blog. Especially if he has never heard of it. Believe it not BB has broken stories in the past and they have connections. Is it unrealistic for one of the most popular WI blogs to have friends who know someone in the ownership group or someone close to the team? Or that they themselves have connections to the team. Now that Yost wasn't canned a lot of people will think BB is some rinky-dink blog that has no readership and lies to get page views. Buzz Bissinger would be proud of TH today.

 

BTW I am also sad that Captain Nedley is still around. Darn.

[tosabrewfan]

My point is that bashing Ned has turned into something that is cool to do.

 

Does it matter if it's cool or not? I think both sides of the debate have very relevant points.

And by both sides you mean the side that says Ned should have been fired last year and the side that says even though he shouldn't have been fired last year, he should be fired now, right.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[ESPNOwen]

Definitely below, man. I 'got' it.

 

Luke, I am a moron...

[1992casey]

shameless repost of item on Tom's blog:

 

I can't find a link to that. Please cite sources when you quote someone.

[bigredrobbo]

"I just disagree that the morale angle is or should be near the top of the list"

 

Under normal circumstances, maybe, but these are not normal circumstances the players are dealing with right now.

They are getting booed in their own park. People all around town are talking about how much they stink. Plus they know they're playing poorly.

 

I don't know, if I were on the team, I would appreciate a little encouragement from somewhere.

 

So maybe we should fire all the fans that are booing.

[jazzytrav]

Bashing Yost has become the cool thing to do because people have convinced themselves or been tricked into thinking that firing him will be a simple fix to the teams problems. It won't be.

This entire argument is getting tiring. Not everyone is claiming that Yost leaving will be some immediate and simple fix for all the team's problems. But that doesn't mean we should just sit here while he puts on the "all is well" front and the team is getting worse every day. It's not about fixing the team for tomorrow, it's about not wasting all kinds of talent in the long run behind a crappy manager.

 

Many posters are providing quality examples of why they want Yost gone that have nothing to do with thinking it's a simple fix. I don't know why this is continually ignored.

[polwonks]

sorry 1992 casey- that was my post on the blog I transferred here (for better or worse)

[SoCalBrewfan]

Sadly, this situation is just what I was worried about last offseason. It was clear that Yost would start off on a short leash, and seemed likely that any early struggles by the team would simply increase the pressure on Yost. While I am not sure what a manager can and cannot do, I have to think that the atmosphere in the clubhouse has to be pretty tense right now. Everybody watching this team is wondering about Yost and whether he'll be canned, and every loss, every bullpen meltdown, every throwing error just increases the hue and cry.

 

At this point Yost has become a distraction, and he's got the look of a lame duck to me. (From afar, I should add...I've been too busy to follow very closely of late.) I don't pretend to have insider information about who on the team does or doesn't like him, but my gut feeling is that the team is letting him twist a bit and waiting for the axe to fall. Whatever else players have said, has any of them come forward to say they support Yost? The JS writers have been increasingly snide in their remarks about him, and so I suspect that TH jumped the gun because he felt this was the confirmation of what everybody close to the team suspects is coming sooner or later. Everybody thinks it is inevitable now, so let's get 'er done, to use a Nedly-like expression, and see whether the season can be salvaged. It might not be fair to Yost, but he's had more than his share of leash already, and sometimes these changes just get made for the sake of change.

 

Since I think the team has been underperforming their talent level, there's a pretty good bet that Ned's replacement will preside over some improvement, almost regardless of what he does or doesn't do. Thus a potentially attractive gig, I'd think...young talent just waiting to bust loose.