Move Weeks Down the Order

[shelmark]

Ah yes, he is scoring runs, so therefore he is successful. All that means is that when does actually manage to get walked or hit that the rest of the team is capable of knocking him in. And by the way, 11th in runs is not great feat when you consider there are 16 teams in the NL; the leadoff hitter has the best odds of scoring the most runs. I don't advocate replacing him, however, because the reality is we have no one capable of filling the position.

[gbpacker40]

Shelmark, thats 11th in all of baseball.

[Tbadder]

Two words--Junior Spivey.

[TooLiveBrew]

Are you saying Weeks is Spivey, or are you reminding who we had prior to Weeks?

[joepepsi]

I'm not reading this entire topic--too long. Just want to point out that Rickie hit .272 with a .429 obp in the Boston series. If he did that from here on out I'd be ecstatic!

[Oldcity]

When Weeks was tearing up the minors, i thought he'd become somewhere around a .280-.290 BA hitter who drew plenty of walks, ripped 20-25 homers, and was a doubles machine. I kept thinking it was only a matter of when something around those numbers happened. Now for whatever reason, it's hard for me to envision Rickie putting it together as i hoped.

He draws plenty of walks and is just about on pace for that 20-25 home run range. His average will inevitably rise, probably by a substantial amount.

I'm not worried about his offense. My main concern is whether they should keep him at second, because his defense is awful.

 

[sweepscc]

I'll just say it cause the excuses are old: I don't think Weeks is as good as we thought he was coming out of college. I think the kid has a TON of potential but he is not there physically and most of all mentally for a 162 game season. He will be in time I believe but right now he's not the hitter we want him to be. It's not his wrist, order in the line up, etc. Will he ever live up to that potential in Milwaukee. I fear he will not but I hope he does.

[Invader3K]

If Weeks could just play the solid, slightly above average defense you typically look for in a middle infielder, I wouldn't be as concerned with his offense, either. It just seems like almost every play he makes is either spectacular, or an easy play that gets botched. For whatever reason, he seems to struggle making the routine outs.

[BrewCrewForever]

I like the idea of moving Weeks down in the order and having Kendall try batting leadoff. Kendall has done it before. He takes walks, is hitting pretty good, has a decent OBP and runs decent for a catcher. Wouldn't hurt to try it moves Weeks to 8th or 7th.

[JohnBriggs12]

The problem isn't just at the leadoff spot. The Brewers have the lowest batting average in the first two spots in the major leagues. Cameron hits basically the same wherever he bats in his career. But I think at age 35, he is better suited to the 5th or 6th spots to be a run producer. He'll get some walks, but his .340 career OBP is well below that of Kendall's .374, and it's hard to advance a runner striking out as much as he does.

 

I had high hopes that Hart would start off this year like he finished last year, driving the ball and being a slugger (he slugged .542 in August and .641 in September). Instead he's become this spray hitting guy content with singles and hitting the other way instead of driving the ball. If he's going to continue to hit like that, he might as well lead off.

 

With Hart and Kendall at the top of the order, they at least have two of the highest average and on-base guys ahead of Braun.

[TooLiveBrew]

Will he ever live up to that potential in Milwaukee. I fear he will not but I hope he does.

 

So if it's not his wrist, etc... how do you explain his Aug. & Sept. 2007? That was tied (in terms of timetable) exactly to when the docs originally said his wrist injury would be fully healed. If you're here to announce that based on 1.5 months of a healthy Weeks at MLB (yes, he's only been fully healthy for 4 MLB months) tells us that he's never going to reach his potential in Milwaukee, how do you analyze his 2 months from the end of 2007?

[DrWood]

plenty of guys have done well for a couple of months.

[Oldcity]

plenty of guys have done well for a couple of months.

Hardly any have done that well, especially on the Brewers.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, but my point is that declaring Weeks 'done'/'never will reach his potential', and then basing it off these first two months is not a reliable way to analyze. If you want to use an injured Weeks as your basis for his true talent, that's equally misguided... imo.

 

Why utilize only the data that supports your argument? There's just as much data of Weeks healthy that completely contradicts this perception.

[BADGERJOBOB]

I was disappointed with the lack of real moves this team made in the off-season but am extremely disappointed in the lack of moves Yost/Melvin have made with what has transpired in this season. We can't have our top two players in our lineup bat under .200 and then have another player in the lineup also under .200.

 

1. Weeks needs to be moved down in the order. Preferrably batting 8th with the pitcher 9th but with Yost's stubborness, I would concede batting Weeks 7th and the pitcher 8th. The one thing Weeks has been able to do is draw walks even when he is hitting abysmal which is most of the time.

 

2. Need to move Cameron down in the order as well and probably start platooning him with Gwynn/Dillon until Cameron heats up.

 

3. Hart needs to move up to the leadoff spot.

 

4. Not a fan of JJ Hardy but his mediocre bat is better then 3 other regulars. Probably needs to bat second when Cameron is in the lineup with Dillon/Gwynn or maybe Kendell batting second. Basically who ever is the hottest.

 

5. Need to start platooning Hall. No ifs ands or buts about it. Branyon should be called up and Hall should only be seeing lefties. I am not a fan of Counsell getting more at bats.

 

6. Need to consider bringing up Pena and see what he has or trading for a reliable relief pitcher even if it means overspending.

 

Season is not lost but really need to make headwind and get to at least .500 before the all-star break. Its a long season and we don't need to go on a huge massive winning streak but with the talent we have, we can go 7-5 every 2 weeks to get us back into the wildcard race and then determine how much of a buyer do we want to be at the trading deadline. Unfortunately that will cost us a lot and the makeup of the roster really should have been handled better before the season started.

[DrWood]

Yes, but my point is that declaring Weeks 'done'/'never will reach his potential', and then basing it off these first two months is not a reliable way to analyze. If you want to use an injured Weeks as your basis for his true talent, that's equally misguided... imo.

 

Why utilize only the data that supports your argument? There's just as much data of Weeks healthy that completely contradicts this perception.

His average dropped .040 points from 2006 to 2007, and another .040 points from 2007 to 2008. The time has come for something to change in the positive direction.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I just think it's wise to keep in mind that Rickie was injured for 2006 through the beginning of Aug. 2007. Imho we've had roughly 4 months of healthy Rickie Weeks. I don't want to base any analysis off 4 months, especially when there's an extreme split nearly right down the middle in terms of his production. I don't think Weeks is going to produce those Aug./Sept. #s for a full season, but I certainly don't think the first month + of 2008 is where his true talent lies, either.

[secondsith]

When I was at the games in boston this weekend, I was dumbfounded at the numbers of the whole boston line up. JD Drew batting 6th had a 390 obp. Their 6 through 9 hitters were all better statisticly than weeks and there is no drop off coming off their bench. And I saw why they were all good solid MLB hitters, they are able to take the ball to the other field and protect the plate. Weeks, imo, has never shown the ability to hit to the oposite field. The only time he does is when he gets jammed. I just don't see him ever batting more than 250 if he doesn't protect the plate, shorten up his swing and use oposite field. Those are 3 things I like to see in the leadoff hole. Even if he does get on base at a low 300 clip, he isn't the smartest of base runners and seems to be getting thrown out on steal attepts a lot more lately. He's there to set the table for the rest of the order and if he doesn't walk he fails at doing that. With his speed he should be a bunting/ground ball threat, but I don't remember the last time i've seen him even hit a ground ball. To me a leadoff hitter has to be willing to do anything he can to get on, even if it means no power numbers. Because of this I believe that he is being greatly miss used at the leadoff spot because he swings for the fences (just like all the other brewers I guess). Move him down to the bottom and give him some opportunities with runners on.

[logan82]

DrWood wrote:

His average dropped .040 points from 2006 to 2007, and another .040 points from 2007 to 2008. The time has come for something to change in the positive direction.

Weeks OBP and SLG also went up from 2006-2007 which in my opinion is way more important than BA. You can't predect anything from any 2 month sample of data so his stats so far my or may not be misleading. It would just be misguided to make any judgement on Weeks using only this years data and ignoring 2+ years worth of data. With his BA/OBP split, he makes a good leadoff hitter as a BB or HBP is almost equal to a single with nobody on base. It is reasonable to expect Weeks to carry a .360+ OBP if he can hit around .250. Weeks is currently getting on base at a .323 clip despite hitting only .193. His OBP is still better than superstar Braun.

[DrWood]

It would just be misguided to make any judgement on Weeks using only this years data and ignoring 2+ years worth of data.

I wasn't using only this year's performance, but indicating his BA is going the wrong direction. Players of his age should be improving, but he's not improving offensively. Something is wrong. Either Rickie really isn't very good, or he has some physical problem, or he has some mental problem, or batting leadoff is a problem for him. So, let's find out if that's the problem by moving him down in the order. I'm not suggesting we waive him, just suggesting the brewers do something to see if he really does have the ability to contribute, long-term, to the team.

 

 

(pared back long nested quote --1992)

[splitterpfj]

I'm ready for lineup changes as well.

 

I think I'd try Hart at leadoff, and if they're going to continue using him almost every game, then bat Kendall second. I'd try Cameron at #5, with Weeks hitting wherever you want him - 7-8-9, to see if he can get hot.

 

It seems no matter how you slice it, this lineup is one part short, Hart either has to hit in one of the top two spots, or fifth, and wherever you don't put him, there's a problem. As long as that's the case, I'll put him ahead of my run producers.

[TooLiveBrew]

I wasn't using only this year's performance, but indicating his BA is going the wrong direction. Players of his age should be improving, but he's not improving offensively. Something is wrong.

 

What I think is wrong is that you're trying to use appx. half of the healthy service time Weeks has had in MLB (the past month +) to make a definitive statement about his skill. You still seemingly choose to ignore that he's had an equal if not greater length of time with monstrous production while healthy.

 

Using BA as the measuring stick to boot is just not an accurate way to get a feel of player development... especially when you're basically cherry-picking the most recent 2 months when he's struggled. I'm not saying you're intentionally doing so, but why you wave the 'he's in trouble' flag without being objective is confusing to me. Rickie would probably benefit from being moved down in the order, but I don't think the lineup overall is hot enough for it to make much difference. Moving Hart to leadoff would just create a hole behind Fielder, and I think Hart at #5 is more important than Rickie moving down. Kendall moving to the leadoff spot is not a good idea imo.

 

Weeks is one 5 or 6-game hot streak away from people starting to ignore his BA, since it could spike quite a bit with such a spurt. I don't question 'if' with Weeks, but 'when' -- and both of these statements apply to Cameron for me as well.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Weeks isn't injured right now, having an awesome month and a half to end 2007 is great, but he's had an awful first month and a half of 2008..kind of cancels itself out if you ask me - while I like the fact that is OBP is over 100 points higher than his BA, he needs to get his average up. Yost talks about how he's hitting into terrible luck, but I think he's using selective memory. Weeks has hit quite a few balls on the screws right at people, but he's also had plenty of lazy popups to short right field and routine grounders. It's one thing to say a guy's hitting into bad luck when he's hitting everything hard, but not when he's getting robbed once a game and basically getting himself out the other 3 ABs. Even if all his bad luck outs turned into hits, his BA would be around .225, which isn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

[Oldcity]

I would also take Cameron out of the 2 hole and bat Hardy there. Hardy isn't exactly hitting great but better then Weeks, Hall and Cameron.

Cameron .711 OPS

Bill Hall .675 OPS

 

Rickie Weeks .655 OPS

J.J. Hardy .635 OPS

None of them are doing well, but Hardy's non-existant slugging percentage along with the low OBP makes him the worst hitter so far. No way should he be batting second; he's right where he should be.

 

 

 

 

 

[DrWood]

I wasn't using only this year's performance, but indicating his BA is going the wrong direction. Players of his age should be improving, but he's not improving offensively. Something is wrong.

 

What I think is wrong is that you're trying to use appx. half of the healthy service time Weeks has had in MLB (the past month +) to make a definitive statement about his skill.

I'm not trying to make any definitive statement about his skill. I'm suggesting that Weeks might do better batting somewhere other than the top of the order. If he doesn't hit there, either, THAT will say something about his ability. barring an unrevealed physical or mental problem. it will say that he just isn't that good, and we were wrong to expect him to habitually sport an OPS north of .800, with a career peak north of 1.000 (which had been my expectation for him).