Move Weeks Down the Order

[Gobias Industries]

Eventually you have to stop buying into all, "hit the ball hard, but right at somebody" line. .190 is .190.

I'm not ready to. He hasn't hit .190 at any level. Why should he all of a sudden start now at age 25? Seeing all of his at-bats this year, I've got all the proof I need to know he shouldn't be hitting .190. Like I said, not .290 but not .190 either.

 

On a side note, look how fast this thread is filling up. Is there a Brewer that leaves more Brewer fans opinionated? I know you want Crabbe to get called up and start and I can someway respect that. You have every right to be dissapointed in Rickie. As a Weeks fan first, Brewers second, I think it may be a good thing for him to be moved to a different team.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Every squirrel finds a nut here and there.

So could you make some of those plays?

[lcbj68c]

bold is not the word that came to mind.....please don't compare Braun and Weeks again. I'm all for moving Weeks out of the 1 hole (actually moving him to AAA or trading him would be higher on my list), however, comparing Weeks with Braun is just a bad comparison.

 

I would think the validity of Minor League numbers don't really matter much when you're in your 4th year of MLB service.

Wow, thought I was alone. Projections don't mean much to me after 4 years. You are what you are. Regardless of your spot in the order, hit the freakin ball. When you come up the second time around, you are probably not the leadoff, so just hit the freaking ball. Stop making excuses, sniffle sniffle, bad luck, hit in right at somebody, gee schucks, get the job done, bottom line.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

hit the freakin ball.

Weeks did hit the freaking ball today. It was a frozen rope to the defense like usual.

[lcbj68c]

Every squirrel finds a nut here and there.

So could you make some of those plays?

After 5 years of playing, and 1000 chances, I'm bound to find a nut, yes. Law of Averages baby doll http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[jjfanec]

On a side note, look how fast this thread is filling up. Is there a Brewer that leaves more Brewer fans opinionated? I know you want Crabbe to get called up and start and I can someway respect that. You have every right to be dissapointed in Rickie. As a Weeks fan first, Brewers second, I think it may be a good thing for him to be moved to a different team.

Every Weeks thread fills up quick because there are some people who love his potential and look at the positives in his game and cling to those things along with his potential. Other people I think get sick of the potential talk and want immediate results. He came with so much hype and really outside of a great end to last year he hasnt lived up to it and he has obvious holes in his game.

 

I am a big Weeks supporter but i am going to stay out of this argument because I feel like a lot of what is said about him is a rehash of a couple other threads, but I will keep reading because I am intrigued by the polarizing views on Rickie.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Every Weeks thread fills up quick because there are some people who love his potential and look at the positives in his game and cling to those things along with his potential. Other people I think get sick of the potential talk and want immediate results. He came with so much hype and really outside of a great end to last year he hasnt lived up to it and he has obvious holes in his game.

That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. It's the Bermuda Triangle of Weeks.

[Gobias Industries]

Wow, thought I was alone. Projections don't mean much to me after 4 years.

You make it seem like he's been hitting like Adam Everett for the last full four years. He has about 2+ seasons worth of at-bats, in which roughly half occured during poor health.

[DrWood]

If he has potential, you have to try to change something so that the potential is revealed. This is my best idea to reveal that potential. If his BA drops .040 every year, he'll be batting .150 next year.

[lcbj68c]

I'm not ready to. He hasn't hit .190 at any level. Why should he all of a sudden start now at age 25? Seeing all of his at-bats this year, I've got all the proof I need to know he shouldn't be hitting .190. Like I said, not .290 but not .190 either.

 

On a side note, look how fast this thread is filling up. Is there a Brewer that leaves more Brewer fans opinionated? I know you want Crabbe to get called up and start and I can someway respect that. You have every right to be dissapointed in Rickie. As a Weeks fan first, Brewers second, I think it may be a good thing for him to be moved to a different team.

When will you be ready to? How long is too long? By the time he is 30? 5 more years of this garbage? I'm not for Crabbe being a long term starter, but I certainly think he can't do any worse. Crabbe brings certain value that Rickie doesn't. It's what you prefer out of a second baseman. Some like the fact that he has the projection to be a Brandon Phillips and jack the ball out of the yard at some point. I don't. I want my second baseman to be speedy and play solid defense and not K with RISP, etc.

 

No, he wont stay at .190 forever, but he is a career .242 hitter. The most time he spent at any level was AA and he was a .252 hitter there with an over 2:1 K:BB ratio. I think that is the real Rickie Weeks. And that's fine, the only problem is he is a terrible defender on balls that he gets to .962 career fielding percentage. Bat him 8th, in the mean time, look for different long term options.

[Greg Vaughn]

Gobias[/b] Industries]

lcbj68c[/b]]Wow, thought I was alone. Projections don't mean much to me after 4 years.

You make it seem like he's been hitting like Adam Everett for the last full four years. He has about 2+ seasons worth of at-bats, in which roughly half occured during poor health.

Good hitters are good hitters.....excuses are getting old. I hope Rickie proves me wrong but he (IMO) doesn't have a future with the Crew.

 

He's a streaky, high K, low avg., poor fielding, decent pop MLB 2nd baseman......just calling it like I see it.

 

I dare you to prove me wrong Rickie.

[gbpacker40]

I really don't have much of an arguement other than what I think he "could" do to be honest with you. Ive been wrong before, I just would like to give final judgement after he is moved out of the 1 spot. Id love for Rickie to prove me right, but I do understand the stance that he does need to produce. This is another extreme comparison but how would Fielder do moved to number 1 in the order or how about Braun? Im not saying they would do as bad as Rickie but I really believe were you hit in the order, when factoring a players skillset can really effect a player. If Weeks can get his average to just 260-270 range, his OBP would project out to be 380-400. I think that is a huge reason people arent willing to give up on him yet.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

how would Fielder do moved to number 1 in the order or how about Braun?

I can see where you're going with Fielder with his high OBP, but teams won't walk him as much if nobody is on base.

 

Braun's OBP is pretty bad so he doesn't fit the leadoff role that well at all.

[TooLiveBrew]

Then we can get rid of this Pitcher batting 8th crap.

 

Why don't you do a little research on this? Everything I've seen so far shows that it's a beneficial strategy for the 2008 Brewers

[gbpacker40]

how would Fielder do moved to number 1 in the order or how about Braun?

I can see where you're going with Fielder with his high OBP, but teams won't walk him as much if nobody is on base.

 

Braun's OBP is pretty bad so he doesn't fit the leadoff role that well at all.

No no no no, maybe I shouldve posted that in blue http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif I was just referring to the thought about Rickie being in a role he is not suited for. Being leadoff. Hope that clears that up.

[shelmark]

FYI Hernan Iribarren played 2B for Nashville on Sat. night. Just throwing that out there. Weeks is the most overhyped Brewer prospect since Glenn Braggs. Weeks has huge holes in his swing, continues to wrap his bat incorrectly(which led to his injury by the way) and therefore has a tiny zone in which to actually hit the ball hard if at all. I keep hoping that a new day will bring forth the potential we all see, but at what point does reality set in and tell us that he is what he is...a big tease.

[shelmark]

Once again, how can we actually prove that our pitcher batting 8th has been successful. I am just asking, because I keep hearing that it is working but I'm bewildered as to how you can actually prove that. Are we scoring more? Is the 7 batter hitting better? I just don't get it but am completely open to an intelligent statistical analysis.

[danzig6767]

More than any player on the Brewers, Weeks is the hardest one for me to get a grasp on, especially as a hitter. On the defensive end, i think Rickie is fairly easy to figure out, he simply wasn't born with the natural instincts good middle infielders have. He's improving somewhat on defense, but his ceiling as a defender at second will always be lower because he can't be taught the more natural instincts like say Hardy has.

 

At the plate though, Weeks is exasperating. He has a great eye in regards to being able to draw walks, yet it's amazing how often he badly flails at low slides off the plate. He also can just hit many absolute line drive bullets as hard as anyone on the team that flashes the talent so many of us drooled over while we waited for him in the minors. It does also seem like Rickie has had more bad luck this year than anyone else on the team in regards to hard hit balls unfortunately finding a glove. Yet, Weeks has hit for a poor batting average each year in the bigs except for 2006. At some point the injury and bad luck excuses for hitting under .250 start ringing hollow.

 

When Weeks was tearing up the minors, i thought he'd become somewhere around a .280-.290 BA hitter who drew plenty of walks, ripped 20-25 homers, and was a doubles machine. I kept thinking it was only a matter of when something around those numbers happened. Now for whatever reason, it's hard for me to envision Rickie putting it together as i hoped.

[logan82]

I would recommend reading a book titled "The Book." They go over batting the pitcher 9th. It is not "crap" like you seem to think. Especially in the case of a high OBP, low SLG hitter like Kendall. Most games, especially with the short starts we have been getting from our pitching, pitchers don't hit more than 2-3 times per game, which means a pinch hitter wil be hitting in the pitcher's spot 2-3 times per game. We wouldn't be able to tell anything meaningful at this point only using the Brewers statistics from this year.

[jhart05]

3 guys in the lineup hitting under .200

 

stack them anyway you want, this team will still suck until they start hitting better

 

Add to that Prince's low power numbers, Braun being average at best before the last few weeks, and you have a lineup full of holes.

 

 

 

[twobrewers]

I wouldn't agree with that. He's slightly below average because of his ability to make the great play.

I'm starting to think TuesdaysWithRillo might be Rickie Weeks.

 

Weeks bat hasn't been the problem this year. As a lead-off hitter he takes a fair share of walks, gets hit by pitches and is a thread to steal bases. He is adequate. If you want to argue he is trying to hard to be a "prototypical lead-off hitter" and it is hurting his development, I think you could certainly make a case. (Since it seems as though Weeks could be a 30 HR guy)

However, Weeks' defense is well below league average. I can't think of a worst 2B defensively. I am not sure what "great play" ability you are refering to. He only has 3 throwing errors this year - mainly because of his inability to ever make a great play. I have seen between 15 and 20 makeable plays at 2B already this year that Weeks has failed at. (I am including plays that should have been a DP, only Weeks bobbled and we only got one out)

[jhart05]

Who cares where the pitcher bats? That is the least of their problems with the offense.

 

They don't have a true leadoff or #2 guy. Heck, they don't even have anyone right now that deserves to bat in the 1 or 2 spot. Kendall? Maybe, but that's asking a lot of a 34-year old catcher whom you need to catch a lot of games this year. Hardy? He's never going to have an OBP above .330 in his career. Maybe put those guys up there only as a temporary change to shake things up a bit, but they are not permanent answers.

 

They have a few legitimate 3-4-5 types in Braun, Prince, and Hart. Then a bunch of 7 thru 9 hitters. I know that's generalizing a lot, but I don't think it's too far off.

 

That is why I'm rooting like heck for Rickie to turn it around. He is the closest thing they have to a leadoff hitter and they NEED him. He can't keep hitting .200 for an entire year, he just can't.

[gbpacker40]

As bad as Weeks average is, he is 11th in runs scored and is posting a obp 130 pts higher than his avg. I still hate seeing him in the 1 hole.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'd move Hart to leadoff, Kendall to number 2, Cameron to 5th, Weeks to 6th, Hardy to 9th.

[RyDogg66]

Weeks's BABIP is .209. That is extremely low and might show that he has been pretty unlucky. In years past it was .290, .351, .287. That is actually encouraging, because that BABIP has to come up.

 

What is discouraging thought is is LD% is down this year to just 12% (down from 17-20% in years past) while the percentage of flyballs he hits to be infield pop ups has gone up over the years, now at 20%. Also his GB% is at 50%.

 

So to sum up, Weeks is hitting into some bad luck but he is hitting more groundballs this year, and when he does hit a fly ball, there is a 1/5 chance that it is a pop out.