Boston had an unfair DH advantage

[mikemercury]

There is ZERO chance the DH will go away. It's possible that there could be a DH in both leagues someday. NL owners don't want to pay for extra slugger if they don't have too. There's just as much of an advantage when AL teams play in NL parks. If Boston had played in Miller Park, Big Pappi likely sits a game, and plays 2 games at 1B, sending either Youklis and/or Lowell to the bench. I would think it would be unlikely that we get swept at home. I do agree that a roster move could, and should have been made to bring up Nelson or Russell the Muscle.

[AmyintheSouth]

Mark Grace was arguing this during the Diamondbacks broadcast a few days ago, saying it was completely unfair to NL teams because they don't build their roster around the DH and then it's completely unfair to AL teams when they're the away team because their pitchers haven't taken batting practice at all or thought about it all year. I guess I feel like that's the point -- it's fair because eventually each side is at a disadvantage. That doesn't help for this series, but when Toronto and Baltimore come to town, they'll have to redo their approach as well.

[RU Rah Rah]

As noted already, the Brewers simply compounded their disadvantage today by running TGJ out there to DH. You have to wonder how often it is that: 1.) the DH bats ninth and 2.) boasts 0 HR in 200+ career AB's. It was just a matter of making a bad situation worse.

 

As for the global issue: I am all for strategy, etc., and some baseball purist part of me likes seeing pitchers bat. However, they are generally horrible at it, and I think your average fan probably would rather see David Ortiz hit than, say, Tim Wakefield.

 

(Although Wakefield actually has more pop than TGJ: 1 HR in 98 career AB's.)

[ELCABALLO45]

I said this before but I will say it again. I hate the DH. It slows the game down and if it ever came to the NL it would be a real turn off.

[brewtank34]

jeffreyscott, I think RU said it best. MLB and the players union would rather see the DH in both leagues as well....more money all around, plus, chicks dig the long ball--not the bunt.

[pebadger]

Befoer the Brewers moved to the NL, I loved the AL game and *hated* the NL game. Now, though I don't hate the AL or the DH, I much prefer NL baseball. My parents have Twins season tickets so I go to a number of games there every season as well as getting down to MP, and I've found that the AL game just lacks a certain intangible flavor. It's not as simple as citing "strategy" or "tradition" or any of that: there's just something about the NL that I now prefer.

 

I agree that the very existence of the DH is at teh root of certain fundamental differences (both subtle and gross) between the leagues, but I didn't see anything so unfair about this weekend.

[AJAY]

I agree that the very existence of the DH is at teh root of certain fundamental differences (both subtle and gross) between the leagues, but I didn't see anything so unfair about this weekend.

 

Did you see how many runs David Ortiz drove in this weekend? It's possible the Brewers take 2 out of 3 if the Red Sox also had to use some backup utility player as their DH like we did. Some of those homeruns and clutch hits would be extra outs that would end rallies sooner.

 

NL rosters don't have those type of players to plug into their lineups for interleague games.

[trwi7]

Did you see how many runs David Ortiz drove in this weekend? It's possible the Brewers take 2 out of 3 if the Red Sox also had to use some backup utility player as their DH like we did. Some of those homeruns and clutch hits would be extra outs that would end rallies sooner.

 

NL rosters don't have those type of players to plug into their lineups for interleague games.

 

But as somebody said earlier, it all evens out. If we were playing the Red Sox at home their pitcher would've had to bat and they would've had Youkilis, Lowell or Ortiz on the bench for every game.

[danzig6767]

Add the DH to the NL, then nobody has an unfair advantage and we don't have to watch Ben Sheets hit. Pitchers don't have the time to properly train to be hitters and there is no reason to send them out there other than people clinging to the notion "this is how it is supposed to be".

Drop the DH in the AL and make Ortiz, Hafner, and Cust pick up a glove if they want to play and this "problem" between the leagues is solved.

As for the series against Boston, they swept us because they are a much better team than he Brewers, not because of the DH. They have a team full of hitters that actually carry high batting averages along with the willingness to take walks. The Brewers on the other hand have the 4th worst team BA in all of baseball along with to many guys who don't take walks.

 

[T B0NE 10]

the AL plans out their franchise and lineup year round around a dh based lineup...the brewers do not. That is a big advantage to the AL

[pebadger]

I think question is, where and how would all the DH talent be distributed if there were no DH rule in the AL?

 

I have a feeling Boston would still have better players on their roster with or without the DH, simply due to revenue advantages and better management.

 

I follow English soccer a bit, and as a Brewer fan this weekend I think I know how fans of the lowest level Premier League teams feel: once every few years, when they win promotion from the second division, teams like Derby and Reading and Hull and Watford get to play in the same league as Chelsea and Arsenal and Man U.

 

Thanks to the antitrust exemption at least we don't have to worry about the Brewers being relegated to AAA after a bad season, though maybe the drama of a fight to stave off relegation would have provided fans with a few more meaningful games in Septembers past.

[twobrewers]

I'm with you Ajay. I mentioned that in the "Do you like inter-league play" thread.

 

DH is a huge advantage. NL teams use a bench player. AL teams use a $10 million superstar.

[crossface21]

The fact that MLB plays by different rules is idiotic. That like saying in the NFL that the AFC teams only need to go 10 yards to get a 1st down, and in the NFC they have to go 15 yards. The DH is here to stay unfortunetly because the players union will never let them get rid of it. As much as I like the strategy that goes with the NL and the "purity" of the the pitchers hitting, they should just go to a DH for all of MLB.

[mothershipconnection]

Boston didn't force us to DH Tony Gwynn Jr. today.

 

When I saw the lineups and noticed that I almost puked. In terms of a franchise embarrassments, Gwynn playing DH is right up there with Molina batting cleanup for SF.

[AJAY]

But as somebody said earlier, it all evens out. If we were playing the Red Sox at home their pitcher would've had to bat and they would've had Youkilis, Lowell or Ortiz on the bench for every game.

 

I don't believe it evens out. To me, there is hardly a difference between an NL pitcher hitting and an AL pitcher hitting. But the difference in the DH's is much more drastic in my opinion.

[kramnoj]

I don't believe it evens out

 

If it doesn't even out, then how would NL teams win the season series against AL teams?

[DougJones43]

But as somebody said earlier, it all evens out. If we were playing the Red Sox at home their pitcher would've had to bat and they would've had Youkilis, Lowell or Ortiz on the bench for every game.

 

I don't believe it evens out. To me, there is hardly a difference between an NL pitcher hitting and an AL pitcher hitting. But the difference in the DH's is much more drastic in my opinion.

That's kind of what I was thinking. Could anybody find the OPS numbers of AL vs NL DH's, and AL vs NL pitchers? I bet the NL has a slight advantage with their pitcher, but the AL has a much larger advantage with their DH.

[trwi7]

That's kind of what I was thinking. Could anybody find the OPS numbers of AL vs NL DH's, and AL vs NL pitchers? I bet the NL has a slight advantage with their pitcher, but the AL has a much larger advantage with their DH.

 

It has nothing to do with pitchers. If this series was played in Milwaukee this thread wouldn't have been started because one of Lowell, Youkilis or Ortiz would've been on the bench in place of the pitcher. That is a disadvantage for the AL team of not being able to use one of their best hitters.

[ewizabeff]

I like the idea of giving NL teams a free call-up when they play in an AL park. Someone call Bud and put that idea in his ear.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

When we play the Twins, the DH gap will be much less because they refuse to pay a DH. Never have and never will. They like Craig Monroe as their DH except when Joe Mauer needs a rest from catcher.

[orca1963]

Drop the DH in the AL and make Ortiz, Hafner, and Cust pick up a glove if they want to play and this "problem" between the leagues is solved.

AMEN!!!

 

If you can't play then don't. Prince gets criticized for his less than stellar fielding but by God he plays. It is another of the strategic nuances that make the NL real baseball and the AL something else. Not that I am biased in any way.

 

Baseball is not just about who can hit the most home runs. It is about small ball, numbers, strategy AND the long ball. It is a thinking man's game. The DH dumbs it down.

 

 

(removed bold type --1992)

[kramnoj]

I think some people are making assumptions about the Dh that aren't true. Most of the teams don't have a powerful DH. Here is the list of starters at DH for each team last year and their OPS+

 

Rays: Greg Norton 89

Orioles: Aubrey Huff 103

Blue Jays: Frank Thomas 125

Yankees: Giambi 108

Red Soz: Ortiz 171

Royals: Billy Butler 105

White Sox: Thome 150

Twins: Cirillo 91

Tigers: Sheffield 120

Indians: Hafner 118

Rangers: Sosa 102

As: Piazza 96

Mariners: Vidro 109

Angels: Hillenbrand 57 (talk about embarrassing)

 

For comparison, Dillon last year was at 128, and has a career of 95. So there were only two starting DHs last year that had higher OPS+ than Dillons last year, and if we want the larger sample of Dillons career, he still would be better than the DHs of a few teams. The problem with the Boston series wasn't that they had the DH. The problem was that they were the World Champs and were a better team. Frankly, as depressing as the sweep was, I thought the Brewers made it fairly close, and with some better defensive play would have one 1 of 3.

[jeffy]

jeffreyscott, I think RU said it best. MLB and the players union would rather see the DH in both leagues as well....more money all around, plus, chicks dig the long ball--not the bunt.

In 2007 the top 4 teams in HRs were all in the NL and 3 of the bottom 4 were in the AL. Does the player's "union" get to have any say over the rules of the game? The DH is an abomination and should be done away.

 

I wonder how the non-pitcher bench players in the AL feel about the DH. Doesn't the union represent them too? What kind of union only worries about getting even more for the already wealthy?

[orca1963]

I wonder how the non-pitcher bench players in the AL feel about the DH. Doesn't the union represent them too? What kind of union only worries about getting even more for the already wealthy?

 

That would be the MLB Players Union.

[endaround]

AL bench players should love the DH. You remove the DH and you suddenly have bench player competing with players who are starting now for bench spots.

 

An abomination is watching Sheets hit.