Ryan Braun signs: 8/$45M, 8/$51M if super two; includes this year, buys out 2 FA years; Latest: salary breakdown (reply #205)

[Never Outhustled]

An absolutly fantastic signing. To sign a dominant player to a deal that could be dramatically below market for his entire prime is just amazing. Players of his ilk could be making this much money in 1 year by 2015.

 

 

A Cubs fan on another board I frequent called this "a strange signing" and said the Brewers should have looked to ship Braun to an AL team because of his defense, in order to make room for LaPorta.

Did the Cubs fan mistake Braun for Fielder? Thats the only way that statement would make sense.

[DrWood]

the no-trade clause assures the player that the team is going to build around him, which is a good thing to know.

[bobbledude25]

This is an absolute steal! With this I am predicting JJ Hardy will no longer be a Brewer soon

[kramnoj]

His agent and father were on 540 this afternoon. Obviously, guaranteed money is great, but they really indicated that Braun enjoys Milwaukee. I think that's awesome. I heard one caller today saying that he has young children and that he is thrilled that he can tell his children that they will grow up watching Braun.

 

Great deal for Braun, great deal for the Brewers. Major kudos to Attanasio for doing this, and Melvin and the front office for getting this done.

[twobrewers]

No trade clause just means he gets to decide where he goes if traded. It doesn't mean he is 100% loyal to Milwaukee.

 

I love the signing. It's a steal. (If he ever turns into a CF, it would be an even more amazing steal) But lets not give Ryan too much credit. He is getting paid $45 million. And the no trade clause prevents him from being traded to a non-contending team should things go wrong.

[dvoiss]

This is an absolute steal. Imagine what a player of his caliber would demand on the open market in 6 years. I would imagine $15M - $20M/year minimum with inflation. Of course there's always the risk of injury but it's well worth it in this case. Great signing.

[saget]

This deal makes me incredibly happy. Braun will be our version of Jeter. For me anyways.

 

A Brewer loss and I'm in a good mood!

[brewmann04]

Great deal for both sides and hopefully this will lead to a few signing .

Kudos to Doug and Gord and a major Kudos to our Owner way to go Mark

[rluzinski]

No trade clause just means he gets to decide where he goes if traded. It doesn't mean he is 100% loyal to Milwaukee.

 

Exactly. It just gives him more leverage to get that huge contract, if the Brewers want to trade him in the last year of his contract. If i were a ballplayer, I'd want it to.

[adambr2]

Braun could end up being worth $45M in those 2 years of free agency alone.

 

The Brewers get a great deal on the possible cornerstone of their franchise for years, Braun guarantees himself lifetime financial security with one swipe of the pen. Just awesome.

[Menace II Sobriety]

The 2006 ROY and possibly the best player in all of baseball just signed a 6/70 deal and we got the 2007 ROY and a guy that has had one of the most historic beginnings of a career ever at 8/45 maybe 51. Sign me up all day, this is great I thought the Rays got a solid on Kazmir but this is unreal 2 years of FA. Braun must really like getting down in Lake Geneva or maybe Jenks taught him a thing or two last year about hanging out on Water. Either way great move by the club, kudos to all involved and much thanks to a talented slugger who was not a part of the initial youth movement to buy into the team and community mantra. Braun may have been groomed by Arod but this signing shows us otherwise.

 

Obviously the guaranteed money is a positive but I would argue that Prince is in more need of the cash than Braun and he still won't look at a long term deal.

[ewizabeff]

I am......happy happy happy. I have greeted almost everyone with "Happy Ryan Braun Day!" today. I will be having a party on May 15 for the next 7 years. He's been my favorite since I saw him in spring training in 2007, and I'm so excited to watch him for years to come. And if anyone knows him....feel free to give out my phone number. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif That offer was good before the $45 million.

[steve267268]

Some quick Cubs fan quotes!

"Who the hell is Brauns agent anyway? 45 mil for 8 years? Thats just over 8 mil a year. While Id kill for that, there are guys with a fraction of Brauns potential making 10-12 mil."

 

Right idea, really really bad math.

"His BABIP reveals that Braun is not quite the hitter that he was in his rookie year, and his patience is garbage right now. This move stinks to high heaven for several reasons. It would have been like us giving CPatt a 6 year deal after his one good August."

 

I'll leave that alone, because one of his friends corrected him with this:

 

"That is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing I have ever read on this message board. You do realize that Braun had pretty much the best rookie season in the history of baseball, correct? And that if you look at his minor league numbers/hype that it isn't a fluke? Also, did CP even have a good August? Wasn't his "tear" the first half of 2003 before he blew out his knee in Atlanta?"

 

Finally, there is this:

 

"I think 2008 Braun is a little closer to what we'll see going forward than 2007 Braun. This is what happens when he doesn't OPS 1.400 against LHP. His production probably won't be too much different to Ramirez, but without the positional premium. Essentially, he'll be in that "not quite awesome" tier of outfielders like the ones he's currently close to in OPS, the Carlos Lees and Raul Ibanii of the world."

I feel embarrassed that i'm even going to humor this quote, however, even if he does "fail" and only amounts to the talent of a Carlos Lee, we are still going to be paying Geoff Jenkins post-prime money for a guy who should be getting 15 mil per. However, good use of the word Ibanii!

 

One more thing. A Brewer fan on a cubs board said that A. The payroll will eventually be pushed to 100Mil and B. that Mark A has stated he would like to bring in another #1 for the push.

 

Are either of these two statements remotely accurate?

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'm with the consensus on this one. This is a great day for the future of the Brewers. Hopefully this will be the model of how they lock up some of the other young stars. I really hope this gets Prince over the edge. He has a couple more years of service and gets the arby money next year, not to mention Boras...it will be tougher, but the model is there. It could be 5-6 years and more money, but I think it's worth it. C'mon Prince...get the dough and open up a vegan restaurant in Milwaukee!!! Hummous and egg plant for everyone!!!

 

The no-trade clause just gives Braun leverage on a new deal if and when he ever gets traded.

 

The longer we can keep Braun, Prince and the rest of these guys in the lineup, the longer our competitive window will be open. It gives us time to get some pitching to match that lineup. I love it...THANK YOU MARK A & Team Canada...AWESOME!!!

[logan82]

steve267268 wrote:

"His BABIP reveals that Braun is not quite the hitter that he was in his rookie year, and his patience is garbage right now. This move stinks to high heaven for several reasons. It would have been like us giving CPatt a 6 year deal after his one good August."

 

"I think 2008 Braun is a little closer to what we'll see going forward than 2007 Braun. This is what happens when he doesn't OPS 1.400 against LHP. His production probably won't be too much different to Ramirez, but without the positional premium. Essentially, he'll be in that "not quite awesome" tier of outfielders like the ones he's currently close to in OPS, the Carlos Lees and Raul Ibanii of the world."

Both of those posters had valid points. Braun's BABIP last year was .361. League average is usually around .300. He might be a player who will carry a high BABIP, I am not saying it isn't possible. I don't remember who, but they carried a BABIP in the .350 range. With only one season it is reasonable to expect a much lower BABIP and therfore BA/OBP than he had in his rookie year. We should also expect lower overall stats because of his crazy high LHP splits.

 

The only postion with a lower premium on defense than LF is 1B. Braun is playing one of the "get the guy in the lineup" defensive positions. He has the athletic ability and tools to play RF and CF, but he isn't good enough to play either yet. I hope he improves enough that we can move him to one of those positions.

[southpaw121505]

If Braun does eventually move to center, or even right, this deal is so good in club's favor its insane. With that said, it's not like it's a bad deal for him either. Corey Hart is next, I really have little faith in Prince being here post arby. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but that doesnt really bother me.

[Dragonbait]

"I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but that doesnt really bother me. "

 

It doesn't bother me if Gamel and LaPorta are both as good as advertised.

[ILuvDaBush]

I'm with TooLiveBrew here, hoping that the next guy to be extended would be Rickie. I called into 107.5 yesterday with Chris Havel, and voiced my excitement over the signing and went on to say that it would be the ideal time to re-up with Rickie given his cosmetically sad numbers. I then went on to point out that by comparison, Rickie's OBP is actually higher than Braun's since Braun made his debut, which Havel dismissed as bunk, simply because Braun's OBP this year is 6 points higher than Weeks' , even though Weeks has been hitting out of his natural position in the lineup since he came up (Imagine putting Prince in the leadoff spot... Well I would actually be amenable to that idea. More trips to the buffet for the Regal One, but I digress).

Corey could be extended but I would think Corey will see an extention once he switches positions and they are confident in his ability to play center (or they trade LaPorta AND Gamel progresses defensively). YoGa is my fave Brewer so I would be ecstatic if he were extended, but as most papers are pointing out when they reference Tulo's contract, you don't extend recently injured players whjo are still injured. But I am pretty sure there is already a draft ready for YoGa to sign 3-5 starts into next season.

And as for the big man, I would think he knows the situation and will only be happy for his millionaire teammate. He knows the business side of baseball, or at least he would seem to given his comments reinforcing that idea and his decision to make a deal with the devil to represent him.

[davego]

Ryan Braun's Life > mine.

[kramnoj]

One more thing. A Brewer fan on a cubs board said that A. The payroll will eventually be pushed to 100Mil and B. that Mark A has stated he would like to bring in another #1 for the push.

 

Are either of these two statements remotely accurate?

 

There is a thread about Attanasio saying there is money to go get a pitcher if there is one on the market and it makes sense. I don't know if Mark actually said a #1, but I think that terminology is overused anyway. If the Brewers can improve their rotation and it makese sense, they will do it.

 

As far as the $100 million payroll, I'm sure it's true that the Brewers will eventually have that. I just don't know where the endpoint of eventually is. I would be surprised if that was this season, but it is possible that the payroll could get there within a few years.

[Gopher74]

If Braun does eventually move to center, or even right, this deal is so good in club's favor its insane. With that said, it's not like it's a bad deal for him either. Corey Hart is next, I really have little faith in Prince being here post arby. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but that doesnt really bother me.

I frankly think that Prince will, or at least that there is a very good chance as Mark A has all but assured us that they would sign Prince. I just hope that he listens to reason and allows Melvin to deal Prince before giving him a Mo Vaughn type deal that we regret for the duration of Braun's deal and our next wave of youngster's deal.

 

I'd so much rather deal Prince to the Yankee's, or the Tigers for Bonderman and Procello, or whoever for a COUPLE good power pitchers. Power pitchers win in the post-season.

 

Manny Parra looked like he's ready to start going after hitters, and he's certainly got the pure stuff to be that frontline guy, I'm just not convinced just yet. And by the way, "looks like" comes from one very good start that ended up spanning 6 1/3 vs an average team, and a poor offensive team and then a couple innings vs a Cards team on the decline.

 

So yea, we need a couple guys who can just overpower you. Sheets is probably 75/25 to be gone, Yo's one, and Manny MAY be 2. But again, dealing Prince when he's got 3 years left could get you BIG time power pitchers.

 

How about Prince to the Rays for Kazmir? They've got how many good arms coming up, they're getting ready to compete, and you get 4 of Prince for 4 of Kazmir. I'd also want soemone like Johnny Gomes, but still.

 

I'd love to see them try to buy low on Weeks right now. Obviously Hart & YoGa are the two most important following Ryan (operating under the assumption that Boras will be a prick as usual re. Prince), but if we can get any kind of a discount on Rickie, keeping him around for 5-6 more seasons would be sweet.

Man, you opened a can or worms here.

 

I really don't want to get into an argument, so I'll let you take the brunt of it, but I absolutely agree. In my mind, I just don't have any doubt that Rickie's going to hit. This year has made me almost more confident because he's actually hitting the ball hard a good pct of the time.

 

Get Rickie now for 6 years at 35 million and then a couple options years at 12 million, team options and when he goes Carlos Beltran on us we're going to be just giddy.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts --1992)

[TooLiveBrew]

Ha! I love being thrown to the wolves. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

Power pitchers win in the post-season

 

I'm surprised to see such an over-generalized comment from you. I don't have time right now to dig, but I'd bet power pitchers win just as much as non-power guys -- in the post-season & in general.

[rotoherb]

Actually, there have been studies that do show teams with power pitchers or high strikeout guys do better in the postseason than teams without them.

[rotoherb]

to be more specifc, teams with the following three characteristics do better in the postseason:

 

• A power pitching staff, as measured by normalized strikeout rate.
• A good closer.
• A good defense.

Probably nothing shocking, but you can find the nuts and bolts of why in articles on BP. The Cubs had the best rating in this regard heading into last year's postseason and got swept. Nothing is a guarantee, it just increases your odds.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'd be curious to know which pitchers have contributed to that, though. If we're talking "power pitchers" meaning, Schilling & Johnson & Martinez in their primes, Clemens, & other high profile power pitchers, then I don't think the logic of 'power pitchers win in Oct.' holds much water. To me, that'd be just more 'Good pitchers win in Oct.' Plus, high K pitchers aren't necessarily power pitchers -- I'd argue that teams in general fare better with high-K pitchers. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

If the complimentary data sample is guys like Glavine, Maddux, etc. -- meaning, pitchers of equal talent that happen to throw slower, then I think it'd be pretty interesting. One inherent problem with the postseason, though, is that you can't escape small samples. Plus, if we're talking W-L record, we all know the old BF.net debate on W-L in terms of evaluating pitchers. Thanks for adding to the disucssion, rotoherb.