Would you do LaPorta for Soria right now?

[Tedaldtada]

Closing baseball games is NOT easy, huh? Well, what if you could get one of the two remaining closers to not have given up a run this season? Would that sense of security be enough for you to trade Matt LaPorta? I think a fair deal would be:

LaPorta
DiFelice
Cain/Ford/Fermaint

for

Soria
A Baller under performing but has lots of the proverbial upside

It's so hard with the way LaPorta has mashed at every stop, but just think how much Soria could stabilize this team.

Sorry if this sounded like a sales pitch.

[pogokat]

No way...I'd never trade a guy like LaPorta for soria...the problem isn't just the bullpen, it's the fact that the brewers cant ever enter the 9th with more than a 1-2 run lead...

 

soria's got less of a track record than turnbow did when he fell apart..

[trwi7]

Ewwwwww no chance I would trade a potentially elite bat for a 70 inning reliever.

[Tedaldtada]

I think you guys might be selling Soria a bit short. He has been drawing comps. to a 'lite' Mariano Rivera.

 

So, if not LaPorta, what type of package would you be willing to give up for a guy like Soria?

[aracko]

I guess that I still have confidence in Gagne. If I were GM and going to move Laporta, it would be for a starting pitcher most likely. Laporta could come up tomorrow and hit major league pitching.

[shelmark]

I don't know much about Soria, but I do believe at some point we should trade either LaPorta or Gamel. Gamel appears to be a position switch waiting to happen, and LaPorta may be better off at 1B or in the AL. I just don't think they will both have places in Milwaukee. We need to pick up some live arms, even though they can bust on you more often than a hitter.

[Postseason2006]

If Gag-me went with and we got a Single A player with a high ceiling, yes.

[eanelson4]

LaPorta for a single-A guy? No way. Don't care what kind of upside he has. I would want to see him produce above the A level before I even thought about that one.

[stoutdude04]

Laporta and Gagne for soria and single A upside? Not a chance. Why would we take a single A with a high ceiling? Laporta is in AA with a high ceiling. This offer just doesnt make much sense to me. Noway would I trade a potential stud for soria. Closers are not all that they once were. Most every closer is having trouble these days. Soria could fall apart just as well as any other closer has lately. Look at Gagne since 2003/04, hes gotten considerably worse. I personally think closers are something most teams find in house.

[Gopher74]

LaPorta for a single-A guy? No way. Don't care what kind of upside he has. I would want to see him produce above the A level before I even thought about that one.

Soria's a very good big league closer for the Royal's. He's more certainly not a Single A guy.

 

If Gag-me went with and we got a Single A player with a high ceiling, yes.

 

Really? We're going with the Sophomoric play on names? I have to say, I find the "Scrubs", "Sewers", "Gag-me", "Viqueen" nicknames of the world to be uninspired and just a bit.... beneath us.

In any event, as related to Gange, Gange's throwing the ball well. He needs to work on pitch selection and he needs to keep the ball down a bit more, but he's also run into a lot of bad luck. Gange's fastball looked fantastic his last time out, and is a good bet to straighten it out and be a valuable BP arm.

 

 

As for the question of the thread, no, I absolutely would not. I feel that the Brewers have the ability to go out and get a guy who could close games this year or next in Matt Fields this year in the draft, and they've got the ability to get another guy later on in Aaron Weatherford who could also be a late inning guy. Frankly, I'd love to and think this team should try to draft both players. I understand they don't have the ceiling and potential future impact that other guys at those spots could be, but I think solidifying the back of your BP for the next 5+ years would be a huge thing for this team, and would allow them to allocate their resources and energy to more pressing positions.

 

But even if we couldn't get something nice in the draft to solve this issue, I simply do not want to see us give up a guy who could be a 45 HR guy for a pitcher who is only going to pitch one inning 70 times a year. Honestly, if we're trading either of our Mat(t)'s to KC, I'd want Greinke in return over anyone else, and that's no longer likely an option. So...just don't think it's a wise course of action....

[Tedaldtada]

Gopher,

 

Your point about the upcoming draft is valid.

 

As far as the Soria for LaPorta trade, what if we got Hochever as well? I know he has lost some luster, but he still has very good stuff and his still very young. I wouldn't mind seeing our coaches working with him trying to tap some of that, um, untapped potential.

 

I can't stress enough how much this could stabilize our team. Just imagine how comfortable all of the guys would start feeling if Soria came in and saved even just 5 or 10 straight games. Everyone could loosen up late in the game and just play. I get the feeling that the guys always have the whole, 'I like Eric, but I hope he doesn't blow it again tonight' thoughts constantly running through their minds.

[Tedaldtada]

SEASON TEAM G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L SV HLD BLSV ERA

2007 KC 62 0 0 0 69.0 46 20 19 3 19 75 2 3 17 9 4 2.48

2008 KC 18 0 0 0 17.1 5 2 2 1 2 20 0 0 11 0 0 1.04

Total -- 80 0 0 0 86.1 51 22 21 4 21 95 2 3 28 9 4 2.19

 

 

Just for reference, here are Soria's career major league numbers.

 

I know there isn't any strand rate, GB/FB, etc., but these numbers are still impressive. This guy is for real.

 

Edit: Shoot, those didn't post right. Main numbers of interest: 28 saves, 4 blown saves, about a strikeout per inning, and this year he has a .4 WHIP.

[brewjihad]

How about these numbers:

 

7-1 record, 39 saves, 64 strikeouts/24 walks, 1.71 ERA.

 

That, of course, is Derrick Turnbow in 2005.

 

If the Brewers could have gotten a guy who projects as about a .270-.280 average with 40 homers per year, that would have been a pretty good deal, huh?

 

I like Soria and I don't think he'll implode like Turnbow has, but relief pitching is so volatile it would be overpaying quite a bit. Now if they could get Grienke or Hochevar invovled, I'd be willing to talk.

[twobrewers]

I like Soria and I don't think he'll implode like Turnbow has, but relief pitching is so volatile it would be overpaying quite a bit. Now if they could get Grienke or Hochevar invovled, I'd be willing to talk.

Exactly. Turnbow. Isringhausen. Corpas. Lidge. Gagne. Cordero.

 

I know Soria is being compared to Mariano Rivera - but what makes Rivera great is that every year he has been fantastic. Soria has not proven that (and can't for another 5 years).

[eanelson4]

In any event, as related to Gange, Gange's throwing the ball well. He needs to work on pitch selection and he needs to keep the ball down a bit more, but he's also run into a lot of bad luck.

 

Why do people insist that Gagne is better than he has shown us....

 

By my thinking, when a pitcher needs to work on his pitch selection, but more importantly needs keep the ball down, that is not considered throwing the ball well. Gagne has shown a serious lack of control that is cause for concern (mainly with his change-up which used to be his big "out" pitch). Even when brought in with a 3 run lead, he has a tough time squeezing out of there without giving 1 or 2 up. Also, I doubt his lack of performance can be chalked up to bad luck. I fail to see when a pitcher has a lack of control and can't keep the ball down where bad luck plays into him struggling. He has been walking to many, missing too many spots and allowing WAY to many HR's. BTW this isn't so much an attack on you as it is on Gagne.

 

Anyhow, I see that Soria is a Major League guy. I guess I thought Tedaldtada29 calling him "A Baller" was meaning A-Baller. Apparently he meant "A baller" as in a good player (sort of ebonics?). That being said, it looks as though this guy has pitched well so far in his short time in MLB, however if we were to give up our best farm prospect, we ought to get somebody with some sort of track record in return. Like previously stated, relief pitching is volatile. The Brewers, more than anything, need consistency out of there bullpen (which they thought these veterans would give them). I would be weary about a trade for Soria given that he has so little time in the majors.

[twobrewers]

Anyhow, I see that Soria is a Major League guy. I guess I thought Tedaldtada29 calling him "A Baller" was meaning A-Baller. Apparently he meant "A baller" as in a good player (sort of ebonics?).

I figured you misinterpretted his meaning.

 

He meant Soria and an "A" ball player. (Just as he was proposing trading LaPorta AND others. Hence, the seperate lines)

[eanelson4]

haha, yeah. Misinterpreted that one pretty bad. Oh well

[Postseason2006]

In any event, as related to Gange, Gange's throwing the ball well. He needs to work on pitch selection and he needs to keep the ball down a bit more, but he's also run into a lot of bad luck. Gange's fastball looked fantastic his last time out, and is a good bet to straighten it out and be a valuable BP arm.

Who's Gange?

[flosses like fossas]

amid all this sample-sizing and derrick turnbow digit dropping let's not forget a little guy i like to call "dirty" danny kolb. read 'em and weep:

 

2003: 1-2, 1.96 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 21 saves (115 career innings)

2004: 0-4, 2.98 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, 39 saves (170 career innings)

(with atlanta, 2005: 3-8, 5.93 ERA, 1.86 WHIP, 11 saves, 7 blown saves)

 

i'm going to paraphrase here: somewhere in the doug melvin/billy beane commandments it says thou shalt not trade top prospects for sample-sizable closers; to the contrary, thou shalt develop said closers and spin them in such deals when possible.

 

edit: spelling

[Gobias Industries]

Dan Kolb didn't strike anyone out though. So I don't think that's a good comparison.

 

I highly doubt Soria regresses like Turnbow did, or even anything remotely close to what happened to Turnbow. Soria K's more batters, BB's less, and lets up less HR's. All the while playing in a superior league.

 

I wouldn't trade an elite bat for a closer (which LaPorta probably will become). But I would trade, say JJ Hardy or Escobar, their choice, for him. I don't know if they have any good SS prospects coming up, but they need one. Tony Pena is sporting a .193 OBP right now.

[fallingleaves]

No way, while I believe Soria ia far superior than Turnbow, he was snatched in the rule five draft. The Brewers need to better utilize the rule five draft to net a similiar player for the pen next year.

[piccione88]

While I do belive that Soria will be an elite closer for a long time, it would just not be worth it. Soria is only going to give you 60-75 innings a year, that is hardly worth the 600 plus at-bats that Laporta can potentially give a team. If we were going to move Laporta, it would take a top of the rotation starter, that will be around for a while.

[Gopher74]

Gopher,

 

Your point about the upcoming draft is valid.

 

As far as the Soria for LaPorta trade, what if we got Hochever as well? I know he has lost some luster, but he still has very good stuff and his still very young. I wouldn't mind seeing our coaches working with him trying to tap some of that, um, untapped potential.

Well that's a significant adjustment to the trade. You go from a closer, a very, very good young closer, but a closer all the same to Soria AND a young potential top of the rotation type starter. Yea, I'd go for that deal now, and I don't think that Hochevar's lost any luster, but I have a hard time seeing the Royals giving up two immensely talented young pitchers for LaPorta when they've got 1st and the corners pretty well covered.

 

I just don't see the Brewers making a move for a closer right now, and frankly I don't see it as a spot that you'd give up one of your top young prospects for. Especially a prospect that's going to allow you to do a lot of things in the future(ie, dealing Prince).

 

[Gopher74]

In any event, as related to Gange, Gange's throwing the ball well. He needs to work on pitch selection and he needs to keep the ball down a bit more, but he's also run into a lot of bad luck. Gange's fastball looked fantastic his last time out, and is a good bet to straighten it out and be a valuable BP arm.

Who's Gange?

Seriously? You couldn't piece that puzzle together? I mean, yea, I'm sure it was pretty tricky, what we me talking about the Brewers closers and typing "Gange" rather than "Gagne", but I guess I'd hope anyone with even the most remedial common sense skills would be able to make that difficult connection.

 

Usually this type of wit is reserved for the ESPN boards, but I'm glad to see that it's made it's way over here as well.

[rousieboy]

Grrrr...Gopher's got claws...(yawn)...

 

anyway back the the thread at hand...

 

Does this conversation change at all now that KC is talking about making Soria a starter (and trading Greinke for bats)? Surely his value increases somewhat based on that...if you wait to see if his conversion is successful then the price goes up...so as long as we are on this topic...Soria the starter for LaPorta? A little more interesting...also Greinke is on trade map too but that is a different topic for another day...Weeks for Greinke blahblahblah...