Time to start looking at Melvin?

[kramnoj]

I don't know the details of the Cordero contract but what is he making this year compared to Gagne?

 

Gagne signed for one year and $10 million. The Brewers offered Coco something like 4/42, but he signed for 4/46 with the Reds.

[mikemercury]

The main problem I have will Melvin and getting rid of him, could be the end of Gord Ash, Jack Z, Reid Nichols, and the rest of the front office staff. A new GM would likely want "his" guys in place. This team is way too close to good things to shake up the organization from the top down, and that's what getting a new GM often brings. A football the average teams turns over 1/3rd of it's roster every season. With only 4 teams in a division it's easy to go from worst to first. Baseball, especially for small market teams, is set up quite different. We have to do things like have Ryan Braun start the year in AAA in 07 for 2 months, despite being the 2nd best hitter on the team at the time so we gain an entire year at the back end before he hits free agency. (Outstanding yet, often overlooked move for the team.)

In the mustache I trust. I also trust that if the Brewers don't start winning road games, the mustache will make a manager move. Are manager's contracts guaranteed like the players?

[jazzytrav]

I believe Jack Z was here before Melvin, and Melvin kept him on.. I could be wrong on that, though.

[kramnoj]

We have to do things like have Ryan Braun start the year in AAA in 07 for 2 months, despite being the 2nd best hitter on the team at the time so we gain an entire year at the back end before he hits free agency.

 

You could bring up a player a few weeks into the season to get the 7th year. The reason for waiting around 2 months is to avoid Super-2. Of course, it's a guessing game, because if lots of teams did that, then the Super 2 status would come later. I am naive in many ways, but I don't believe they delayed bringing up Braun for that reason. I genuinely thought they wanted to give him for time to improve his defense. Turns out that wasn't a bad motive, as he showed throughout the season that he is not a third basemen.

 

Are manager's contracts guaranteed like the players?

 

As far as I know, yes, and his 2009 option was picked up in the offseason. It seems to be standard practice that a team has to overpay a manager for a year, just so the manager isn't continually answering questions about his status in the walk year.

[PeaveyFury]

I believe Jack Z was here before Melvin, and Melvin kept him on.. I could be wrong on that, though.

 

That is correct. But I think Jack Z is so highly thought of in baseball at this point that if we hire a new GM that isn't Jack himself, I think it's very unlikely he stays on board.

[pete]

Does Jack Z want to be a GM?

[Fatter than Joey]

I genuinely thought they wanted to give him for time to improve his defense.

 

Braun got hurt in 2007 ST as well. He needed the time to get back in shape

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Does Jack Z want to be a GM?

Yes. He wanted the Pirates GM job this offseason, but they passed over him for someone else. Jack Z would gladly be our GM.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Seriously if Melvin cant see by now that Yost needs to be replaced then it is obvious that he is not the right man to be Gm of this team. Yost has had more than 5 seasons now and nothing has changed. This team still is terrible defensively and lacks any fundamental sense (baserunning, etc). A young team should improve and these young players with the exception of Braun are all regressing. That is a sign of an awful coaching staff and Melvin must be blind not to see it. If simple things like baserunning are not improving and young players like Weeks, Hall, and hardy are all regressing its a clear indictment of the entire coaching staff. Time to fire Yost or Yost and Melvin if Doug is too blind to Neds ineptness.

[jazzytrav]

I believe Jack Z was here before Melvin, and Melvin kept him on.. I could be wrong on that, though.

 

That is correct. But I think Jack Z is so highly thought of in baseball at this point that if we hire a new GM that isn't Jack himself, I think it's very unlikely he stays on board.

Fair enough. I was just thinking that Jack Z might not want to be thought of as one of "Doug's guys."

[bklynbrewcrew]

With each passing day that Melvin keeps Yost as manager his credibility slips that much more. It also doesnt help that he seems incapable of putting together a decent pitching staff.

[PeaveyFury]

Ok bklyn, we've got it- Melvin needs to fire Yost or you think he should be fired as well. No need to hammer the point into the ground.

[Tbadder]

I would say that I'm a Melvin apologist overall. Being in a small market is like being a boxer with one arm tied behind your back. Because of this I think you've got to take a few more risks, and things can blow up in your face. But I also think that you can learn from them. When I look back I think that the Pods/Lee trade was Melvin's best trade (Locking up Jack Z. was his best overall move). He moved Pods after a terrific season and an okay season. When you ressurect a player like Turnblow or Clark or Davis, I think you have to have the discipline to dump that player after a year to two years for max value. Sure it might happen to screw your team up in the short term, but you can't afford to put all your faith in these kinds of players. Just think of the return we could've got for Turnblow at the All-Star break. What might Clark have netted us if we had traded him after his breakout season? What kind of catcher could we have gotten if we had traded Davis a year earlier? It's hard to know, and I'm not saying we'd get someone as good as Carlos Lee, but I'm guessing we would've gotten something better and more long term.

 

All GM will have a variety of outcomes for all the moves they make, from the sublime to the disasterous. To hold up Melvin to a standard of a big market or even a medium market team is rash IMO. Is Melvin the best--no way, but I think he's done a good job overall and should be retained.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Thats the problem with Melvin, he is way too loyal to "his guys". That is the reason why he holds onto guys like Turnbow too long and why he is constantly looking to pickup his former scrub players like Nix and Kapler. It is that same reason why he is way too loyal to his managers.

[Gobias Industries]

I'm really starting to believe that Melvin would rather go down with Yost than just fire him.

 

He's been an above average GM, but I definitely wouldn't lose sleep if we fired him. I have confidence that Mark A would hire another good one.

 

If Mark A does pull the trigger on both, I'd really like to see Paul DePodesta hired. He set up the Dodgers with a ton of young talent and his defining trade was a huge success ( The Brad Penny trade).

[bklynbrewcrew]

If Melvin gets canned after the season Jack Z deserves a shot as GM of the team.

[BrewCrewForever]

Yeah I woudl like to keep Melvin, but if Attanasio were to give him the boot Jack Z would be perfect and with his scouting record deserves a shot to be a GM.

[JohnBriggs12]

"I'm starting to believe that Melvin would rather go down with Yost than just fire him."

 

I'm starting to believe Attanasio doesn't have the stones to fire either one of them.

 

There are 3 NL managers with longer tenures than Yost. Two of them are sure fire Hall of Fame managers, Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa. The third is Clint Hurdle. Hurdle, similar to Yost, amazingly kept his job for 5 years of losing before one incredible hot streak got them into the World Series. Now they are back to losing. One would think Hurdle earned himself a little longer rope than Yost.

 

The entire rest of the NL is on it's second or third manager since Yost was hired.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm really starting to believe that Melvin would rather go down with Yost than just fire him.

 

I really think that Melvin sees the situation if he were to fire Yost & the team didn't pick up its play -- he'd likely be out the door at the end of the season, too. I think Yost will only be fired if Doug's job security becomes imminently threatened. He may prove to be the safety net for Melvin.

 

 

I'm starting to believe Attanasio doesn't have the stones to fire either one of them.

 

Or maybe he recognizes that it's not exactly a GM's or manager's doing when guys with as much talent as Weeks/Cameron/Hardy, etc. just haven't gotten hot at the plate yet. I don't know what other managers' tenures have to do with evaluating Yost.

[jeffy]

Being in a small market is like being a boxer with one arm tied behind your back.

 

This is no longer an excuse. The Brewers are right in the middle of the pack in terms of team payroll.

[MickeyDavis]

 

 

Or maybe he recognizes that it's not exactly a GM's or manager's doing when guys with as much talent as Weeks/Cameron/Hardy, etc. just haven't gotten hot at the plate yet.

That mindset is the problem. Assuming that these guys have "much talent". Hardy has had one half of one good season. Weeks will have a hot streak for a few games followed by a cold streak of a few weeks (no pun intended). Over valuing talent is certainly on the GM.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, they do have the talent though, that's the problem. When people selectively sample players' production & largely ignore the impact injuries have had, they can make a lot of statements like 'They don't have talent'. Rushing judgment is certainly on the fans that choose to do so.

[MickeyDavis]

So you are saying Weeks and Hardy suck this year because of injuries?

It's fine for fans to fall in love with players. We're just fans. But when management starts doing it, we're in trouble.

[Gobias Industries]

So you are saying Weeks and Hardy suck this year because of injuries?

No, but people are insisting that both are terrible at hitting by choosing periods of AB's where they were not 100%, i.e. the Move Weeks Down in the order thread, even though when 100% healthy, they've been pretty damn good. And for some reason that is to be completely disregarded.

 

Sure, that doesn't make up for how awful they've been so far this year. But when using small(ish) samples, players are wildly inconsistent. If they started out hot and this month and a half lull occured in July and August, it would probably go largely unnoticed, just like JJ's did to the casual fan last year.

[Tbadder]

Being in a small market is like being a boxer with one arm tied behind your back.

This is no longer an excuse. The Brewers are right in the middle of the pack in terms of team payroll.

I'd respectfully disagree. Watch what happens to Fielder long term. Why don't the Brewers pay over slot value for draftees. Is Sheets going to remain a Brewer. I can't agrue that the payroll has increased under Mark A. but I think we're near the upper reaches unless we start making the playoffs on a consistent basis. Does anyone think payroll will top 100 million next year? 125 million a year after that? Small market teams are limited and have a smaller margin for error--that's not gonna go away.