Time to start looking at Melvin?

[kramnoj]

I am certain he has a ton of experience hiring and firing people, and if he is unable to upgrade Melvin, he probably has no business owning a MLB team.

 

No business owning a team? Didn't you just say new ownership has a lot to do with the capacity crowds? Melvin is far from the worst GM in the league, and you think a clear upgrade is available? What areas do you think can be improved over what Melvin provides, and how would Attanasio know that a candidate would be better in those areas?

[logan82]

I would like to see a GM not married to the "closer" designation who will hire a manager who thinks the same.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the new ballpark has a lot to do with the capacity crowds

 

The stadium is nearly 10 season old already FTJ (which is hard to believe). I don't think there's a lot of people coming to the Park at this point because they haven't been there yet.

 

I don't think Melvin has been "bad", only that there may be better options.

 

And who are you suggesting? Do you have some names in mind?

[Roscoe Chill]

Well it's a little over 7 years old, not 10, but point taken.

[Brewer Fever]

No offense Peavey, because you are far from the first person to use the old, "who do you have in mind" line...BUT the fans sure as heck don't have the inside sources of the game that MLB executives have with regard to upcoming and qualified talent evelauators and baseball minds. I would hope that Mark Attanasio has access to a heck of a lot more extensive list of potential replacement for both manager and general manager than any fan could come up with. Tom Hardicourt keeps using that line as his fallback whenever he runs out of arguments for keeping Ned Yost.

 

I'm not even over the hump on whether or not it's time for Melvin to go. But I do know that Ron Wolf always had a list of names ready to replace the head coach. He even had a list in the end for replacing himself. And there's a growing trend of hiring outside firms whose sole reason for existence is to find replacements for front office positions proving that even people within the game are seeeking an assist to get the right man in place.

[kramnoj]

because you are far from the first person to use the old, "who do you have in mind" line...BUT the fans sure as heck don't have the inside sources of the game that MLB executives have with regard to upcoming and qualified talent evelauators and baseball minds.

 

I don't think that's entirely true. I think most of that information is out there, you just have to sift through a lot of information to get it.

[moofnelson]

I would like to see a GM not married to the "closer" designation who will hire a manager who thinks the same.

Logan, if by this statement you think the Brewers should use a "closer-by-committee", I don't think it works. Look at list of World Series

winners the last 20 years and you won't find many, if any, that didn't have a dominant, designated "closer."

[Brewer Fever]

because you are far from the first person to use the old, "who do you have in mind" line...BUT the fans sure as heck don't have the inside sources of the game that MLB executives have with regard to upcoming and qualified talent evelauators and baseball minds.

 

I don't think that's entirely true. I think most of that information is out there, you just have to sift through a lot of information to get it.

 

Fans surely don't have the extensive list of names. And they definitely don't have all the information needed to make an assessment. It's actually pretty ridiculous to expect any fan to come up with a realistic list of candidates. They have no clue of who is truely available. And they certainly haven't heard of all the names that are out there. Example: What fan on Earth would have chosen Mike McCarthy as his or her top choice for Packers head coach before his name appeared in print as a candidate for the job. Heck, many people were against him even after hearing about his resume. Ted Thompson obviously knew more about him other than the fact he coordinated a last place offense.

[jazzytrav]

The problem with firing somebody for not doing a job as well as one would like is you don't know how the new person is going to do. You could make the problem worse.

 

I'm confused how you can say this, then...

 

You have to take gambles to win.

If the GM has to gamble on players and coaches to win, doesn't the owner have to take a gamble on the GM, rather than playing it safe and hoping to not get someone worse?

 

I should probably point out that I'm not a real advocate for canning Melvin, but I don't think ownership should have a different plan than the rest.

[PeaveyFury]

Well it's a little over 7 years old, not 10

 

Hence why I said "nearly 10 seasons old". http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

No offense Peavey, because you are far from the first person to use the old, "who do you have in mind" line...BUT the fans sure as heck don't have the inside sources of the game that MLB executives

 

I wasn't necessarily saying there's no one out there that would be better, but I was asking FTJ if he had someone in mind, since it kind of seemed like he had some ideas.

[logan82]

moofnelson wrote:

Logan, if by this statement you think the Brewers should use a "closer-by-committee", I don't think it works. Look at list of World Series

winners the last 20 years and you won't find many, if any, that didn't have a dominant, designated "closer."

I am sure most of those teams also had deep bulpens. When you don't have a deep pen, like we didn't last year, you waste your best reliever by confining him to the closer's role. Closers pitch the 9th inning and thats it. By not designating a closer you leave yourself with flexability to bring in your best guy whenever you need him. Just because it isn't being done doesn't make it wrong.

[Brewer Fever]

No offense Peavey, because you are far from the first person to use the old, "who do you have in mind" line...BUT the fans sure as heck don't have the inside sources of the game that MLB executives

 

I wasn't necessarily saying there's no one out there that would be better, but I was asking FTJ if he had someone in mind, since it kind of seemed like he had some ideas.

 

My apologies then. I just don't want to see a million occurences popping up where when all defenses of Yost and/or Melvin are exhausted we refrain to the who would you hire argument to shut people up. With Hardricourt using it in print and on the radio I can't get over how low-ball it is.

[kramnoj]

Fans surely don't have the extensive list of names.

 

They have access to them. It's true that very few fans will take the time needed to do the research, but that doesn't mean it's not available. All the team media guides are available online, and if you read all the baseball media that is out there you'll see interviews and features on front office people, beyond just the GMs.

 

Jazzytrav, it's my opinion that a bad GM can set a franchise back for years. If you have a GM that is mostly doing good things but has made mistakes, that's far more preferable to having someone new come in make a series of bad moves that may not be realized for years. I don't get the sense that Attanasio is anything but happy with the performance of Melvin so far, and I would guess that Mark has at least signed off every significant move Melvin has made.

[naivin]

Fans surely don't have the extensive list of names. And they definitely don't have all the information needed to make an assessment. It's actually pretty ridiculous to expect any fan to come up with a realistic list of candidates. They have no clue of who is truely available. And they certainly haven't heard of all the names that are out there. Example: What fan on Earth would have chosen Mike McCarthy as his or her top choice for Packers head coach before his name appeared in print as a candidate for the job. Heck, many people were against him even after hearing about his resume. Ted Thompson obviously knew more about him other than the fact he coordinated a last place offense.

 

I agree with all of the above, but then it also leads me to ask what makes those same fans who's involvement with the brewers generally comes from a television or computer monitor, qualified to declare in no uncertain terms that Ned Yost should be fired? Perhaps Attanasio knows more about Melvin and/or Yost then the fact that they are guiding the sub-.500 Brewers.

 

As someone pointed out, Attanasio is a smart guy...if he saw an opportunity to improve the team, does anyone think he wouldn't do so immediately?

[PeaveyFury]

it's my opinion that a bad GM can set a franchise back for years.

 

I agree completely- it's taken the Brewers 15 years to get back to winning baseball, and nearly 10 years to recover from the disaster that Bando made this franchise.

 

Melvin probably has a get-out-of-blame free card due to Yost- he can fire Yost and have him take much of the blame for this year if they continue to struggle, which would probably buy Melvin another year.

[Fatter than Joey]

No business owning a team? Didn't you just say new ownership has a lot to do with the capacity crowds?

 

Yes. I think Mark A. has done a great job -- I have a problem with the idea that hiring a GM is a total crap-shoot for a cat like Mark A. -- I think we can all agree Mark A. is a shrewd business person, and probably is very good at finding people that can help him grow his businesses -- my point is (and it is a general one) is that if a business owner cannot identify a clear upgrade to his management, he has no business owning said business.

 

The stadium is nearly 10 season old already FTJ (which is hard to believe). I don't think there's a lot of people coming to the Park at this point because they haven't been there yet.

 

I disagree. MP is clearly an attraction to casual fans that County Stadium was not -- Every year I see people holding reunions/graduations/summer parties/etc. at MP that are going to MP because it is a great place to spend a weekend.

 

I was asking FTJ if he had someone in mind, since it kind of seemed like he had some ideas.

 

PF asks a fair question here -- I am not pretending I know who would be better -- my only point is, if hiring a GM (in any business) for an owner is a crapshoot, they probably shouldn't be in that business.

 

As someone pointed out, Attanasio is a smart guy...if he saw an opportunity to improve the team, does anyone think he wouldn't do so immediately?

 

No. I think he was reasonably patient with DM up until the end of this year. I think at the end of the 6th year if we continue to circle the toilet, it will be time to move on.

 

Melvin probably has a get-out-of-blame free card due to Yost- he can fire Yost and have him take much of the blame for this year if they continue to struggle, which would probably buy Melvin another year.

 

I agree.

[Postseason2006]

I think the new ballpark has a lot to do with the capacity crowds

 

The stadium is nearly 10 season old already FTJ (which is hard to believe). I don't think there's a lot of people coming to the Park at this point because they haven't been there yet.

 

I don't think Melvin has been "bad", only that there may be better options.

 

And who are you suggesting? Do you have some names in mind?

 

Terry Ryan for one.

[jeffy]

how would Attanasio know that a candidate would be better in those areas?

 

Wow! So he can never fire Melvin because how would he ever know who might be better.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

[kramnoj]

how would Attanasio know that a candidate would be better in those areas?

Wow! So he can never fire Melvin because how would he ever know who might be better.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

 

Please show where I said that. I didn't say Melvin should never be fired. I said that it doesn't make sense to get rid of someone who you feel is mostly doing a good job, as I imagine Attanasio does. FTJ is right in that everybody is replaceable, but that doesn't mean it's easy or right to do so.

[jeffy]

I didn't say you said that. I came to a logical conclusion, based on your implication that it is not possible for Mark A to know who would be a better candidate for the job.

[gbpacker40]

I don't know the details of the Cordero contract but what is he making this year compared to Gagne? The one thing that boggles me the most about Melvin is keeping Gwynn on this team over others who clearly would help more. I think overall Melvin has done some great things in the trade department (minus Linebrink). He is a good GM in my view as all make mistakes, but if he keeps Yost much longer his leash will have worn way to thin.

[kramnoj]

I didn't say you said that. I came to a logical conclusion, based on your implication that it is not possible for Mark A to know who would be a better candidate for the job.

 

If you're going to quote me, you should respond to what I actually said, not what your logic thinks. I do feel that to replace Melvin right now would be bad, because of the uncertainty of what a new GM brings. I certainly don't think that will always be the case.

[jeffy]

If you're going to quote me, you should respond to what I actually said

I did, you "said": how would Attanasio know that a candidate would be better in those areas?

 

I responded to that odd statement.

[kramnoj]

I took issue with your use of the word never, which I didn't use.

 

Why do you find my statement odd? In order for Attanasio to fire Melvin, he should determine what liabilities Melvin has, and whether those are things that can be corrected, or if those are part of what Melvin is. Let's say that you feel that Melvin is inferior at making trades. How would you determine that a new candidate is good at making trades? How do you know he's not going to trade Kazmir away for Zambrano?

[BrewCrewForever]

Dear Doug Melvin,

 

For the most part I have really liked what you have done as GM of this team. But you have to make two moves tomorrow on our off day. You need to fire Manager Ned Yost and promote Frank Kremblas from AAA as interim Manager. Then you need to send Tony Gwynn to Nashville and call up Russell Branyan or Brad Nelson. Preferably Branyan. Thank you that is all, if you do these things I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Yours Truly,

 

JD (BrewCrewIn2004)