Time to start looking at Melvin?

[mothershipconnection]

And 3 one and dones...what a great GM with a unlimited bank payroll.

 

What matters in my opinion for a GM is that he gets you to the postseason and keeps you competitive. It's unfair to expect them to control the outcome of a 5 game series when they assembled a team that did great for 162.

 

He had a huge checkbook in Texas and didn't know what starting pitching was.

 

They did have a couple of acceptable staffs there. One thing that should be pointed out is the reputation Texas has for killing pitchers. That undoubtedly made it much harder for him to sign pitchers, while the reputation probably helped him attract hitters looking to pad their resume in a hitters park.

[Postseason2006]

Eveland is what? The guy is pitching great for Oakland right now. The Melvin blinders are working admirably.

 

If you look at the trade for Sexson, he called De La Rosa and Moeller the key players. If those were the key players, can anyone please tell me how good Melvin is at "scouting"?

[Postseason2006]

pmg4 wrote:

1. He signed Soup because he is a post-season winner. Let's see what he is when the Crew is playing in October before we get all bent out of shape. In the regular season, he is a .500 pitcher, which he has been so far.

2. He traded Gross to get at-bats for Cameron, not Gwynn. Gwynn is just cheaper. Gabe Gross is a journeyman. Get your mind around it.

3. Dana Eveland, who so far has proved to be nothing special, got us a starting catcher, starting pitcher, and reliever for an entire season, and that isn't enough? Were you dating him?

 

4. Inman went for Linebrink, who became a valuable draft pick. Let's wait and see on that one.

5. Dear Mr. Melvin, I don't understand what you are doing with the manager. It may have something to do with the owner, but I just don't understand it. So it must be wrong. Please resign.

 

 

1. And I think every Cub owns him.

 

2. Right on that one. Gwynn right now is better than Cameron in what the Brewers need at the plate.

 

3. Eveland would be the Brewers best starter right now.

 

4. IMO, worst trade of any team last year. Who knows about draft picks...We could have anything...

 

5. Amen.

[bklynbrewcrew]

At some point someone has to held responsible for this team underachieving. This is a bottom line business and the bottom line is we are tied for last place if we lose tonight. Attanassio cant possibly think this is acceptable.

[kramnoj]

How is firing Melvin going to get them out of last place?

[PeaveyFury]

Who knows about draft picks...We could have anything...

 

With Jack Z drafting, I think the odds are quite good that one of the two players picked with the comp picks will be at least as good a prospect as Inman was.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont want to fire Melvin but at some point a GM has to put together a winning team.

[kramnoj]

I dont want to fire Melvin but at some point a GM has to put together a winning team.

 

He has. Last year. And this year is only about 1/4 of the season through. Why would you hold a GM accountable for a team that hasn't finished its season?

[jazzytrav]

At that point do we let Melvin keep his job as GM or do we hand over the reigns to Jack Z who deserves a GM gig?

I am just about to read the rest of this thread, so if this has been covered, I apologize. I am so incensed by this statement, I have to respond immediately. What could possibly make a person think that a great scout is automatically a great GM? I personally think that Jack Z should be the highest paid scout in the league but never, ever be moved from that position.

 

 

You seem to be assuming that Jack Z doesn't want a GM job and that he'll stay in the position that he's in as long as we pay him enough. There are always two sides to it, and it's not always about money.

 

1. He signed Soup because he is a post-season winner. Let's see what he is when the Crew is playing in October before we get all bent out of shape. In the regular season, he is a .500 pitcher, which he has been so far.

This doesn't even make sense. Maybe Suppan should just pretend every game is a postseason game. Then he'll be an all-around winner. And if Doug Melvin is signing guys because they're "post-season winners" (which I truly don't think he is), he should be fired right now. I'll buy that he was signed because he eats a lot of innings, or that he's a good guy to have around the young pitchers, or that the market is very high for pitching and he was paid what he's worth. But I don't buy that he was signed because he has the magical ability to dominate in the postseason while being average the rest of the year.

 

2. He traded Gross to get at-bats for Cameron, not Gwynn. Gwynn is just cheaper. Gabe Gross is a journeyman. Get your mind around it.

Gwynn isn't that much cheaper. And I'm not sure how you define "journeyman". Gabe was on his 2nd team when the Brewers traded him. If the definition of journeyman is based on skill-set, then Gwynn is absolutely a journeyman. And I'm not sure how you're getting that Gross was traded to get more at-bats for Cameron. Cameron was going to start in CF no matter what; no one was going to take his at-bats away. Gwynn and Gross were left-handed bench outfielders, so Gross was most definitely going to take at-bats away from Gwynn, which I think that he should have. I almost wish Tampa would trade us Gabe back for Gwynn straight-up, but that's a completely different argument.

[lcbj68c]

3. Eveland would be the Brewers best starter right now.

Eveland better than Sheets? Pass down that frosty beverage.

[twobrewers]

Boy, does this ever read like a vent thread.

 

Melvin is a very good general manager. He has built a system that will help the Brewer be competitive year in and year out. That is his biggest accomplishment.

 

My only complain with Melvin is that he often overlooks defense.

[1992casey]

Boy, does this ever read like a vent thread.

 

Yeah, it's starting to suck. There's unnecessary condescension peppered in. Also, there are at least a couple cases of unnecessary consecutive posts. If members read before writing and organize their thoughts, consecutive posts shouldn't usually be necessary.

[DougJones43]

Boy, does this ever read like a vent thread.

How so? Just because there are negative outlooks/reactions to some aspects of Melvin's tenure? I guess I really wouldn't see point of debating any issues if only positive thoughts are allowed outside the vent thread.

[xisxisxis]

Yeah, it's starting to suck.

 

Does it suck worse than being in the 6th year of a GMs tenure and have the current team to show for it, yet we still hear what a *GREAT* job he is doing.

 

Should we look at Melvin? The question should be what's Mark Attanasio going to do? I doubt anything as long as the money is rolling in, but you can always hope that winning comes first at some point.

 

 

Edit:

I guess I really wouldn't see point of debating any issues if only positive thoughts are allowed outside the vent thread.

 

Well I think the hope was the Vent thread would reduce general negativity. Here's a thought, how about a good team to reduce negativity towards the Brewers.

[twobrewers]

How so? Just because there are negative outlooks/reactions to some aspects of Melvin's tenure?

Saying things without any basis or facts that support the argument make it read as a vent post. There are plenty of irrational (and some just incorrect) statements being thrown around.

 

I full heartedly support engaging in opposing view points with adequate basis to contend one's argument.

[DougJones43]

How so? Just because there are negative outlooks/reactions to some aspects of Melvin's tenure?

Saying things without any basis or facts that support the argument make it read as a vent post.

I guess I haven't really noticed much of that going on. Care to provide some examples, so that we know exactly what you are referring to?

[1992casey]

I full heartedly support engaging in opposing view points with adequate basis to contend one's argument.

Exactly. Negativity by itself isn't a problem. It's the post quality frequently accompanies the negativity. DougJones43, you pointed out a perfect example of someone not backing up a point while using condescension in reply #90.

[DougJones43]

I full heartedly support engaging in opposing view points with adequate basis to contend one's argument.

Exactly. Negativity by itself isn't a problem. It's the post quality frequently accompanies the negativity. DougJones43, you pointed out a perfect example of someone not backing up a point while using condescension in reply #90.

Fair enough. I thought the poster was saying people were just complaining about Melvin for the sake of complaining, without any validity to back it up, which I don't think is the case.

 

I agree that the condescension can really hinder good discussion. Although, I wouldn't consider it "vent thread" material, just bad etiquette in general. I don't like condescension like that anywhere, especially the vent thread (which happens to be my favorite place right now! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif )

 

Point taken though.

[pete]

DougJones43, you pointed out a perfect example of someone not backing up a point while using condescension

 

 

But what do you want, a breakdown of Gabe Gross for the umpteenth time?

 

That post hardly compares to the snotty arrogance that pops up regularly.

[ELCABALLO45]

I might be one of the only few that think this but I liked the trade for Linebrink last year at the time. I think people need to go back to before we got him to remember how bad our bullpen was. Wise couldn't find the plate, We were using Shouse in the 7th and 8th inning instead of just using him as a LOOGY. It was getting really bad and he took a risk on a player which im glad he did. You could say we traded away to much for him but if we didn't do it we would of been done before September instead of at the end of September. We would of been throwing Turnbow out there every outing. And everyone who is freaking out over Dana Eveland and how good of a start he is off to, look at what Linebrink is doing right now in Chicago. 11 holds and a ERA under 2 with a WHIP of almost 1. If we would of gotten that Linebrink instead of the one we got, it would of been a good trade.

[Fatter than Joey]

You think a winning record and near capacity crowds at Miller Parks aren't producing results?

 

Yes. I think the new ballpark has a lot to do with the capacity crowds, and new ownership. At this point it looks like it will be season #6 w/o the playoffs, and probably time to see

if someone else can do a better job.

[kramnoj]

I think the new ballpark has a lot to do with the capacity crowds, and new ownership.

 

The Brewers drew 1.7 million in 2003 and 2.87 million last year. It's true that Attansio has done a wonderful job as new owner, but I think Melvin has done a decent job at spending that money. The problem with firing somebody for not doing a job as well as one would like is you don't know how the new person is going to do. You could make the problem worse.

 

I don't think Melvin has done a bad enough job to warrant no longer doing it. He's made mistakes, but if GMs aren't making mistakes, they aren't trying hard enough. You have to take gambles to win. Sometimes you have the 2005 White Sox. Most times you have the White Sox of other years.

[Postseason2006]

Who knows about draft picks...We could have anything...

 

With Jack Z drafting, I think the odds are quite good that one of the two players picked with the comp picks will be at least as good a prospect as Inman was.

Jack Z whom Taylor hired not Melvin?

 

The assumption is could. The Brewers could've went to the World Series last year also but they didn't.

[Fatter than Joey]

I think Melvin has done a decent job at spending that money. The problem with firing somebody for not doing a job as well as one would like is you don't know how the new person is going to do. You could make the problem worse.

 

I don't think Melvin has been "bad", only that there may be better options. Mark A., is an accomplished business man. I am certain he has a ton of experience hiring and firing people, and if he is unable to upgrade Melvin, he probably has no business owning a MLB team.

[PeaveyFury]

The assumption is could.

 

The Brewers have managed to get either their 1st or 2nd round pick to contribute in the majors every year since 2001. I don't think it's all that out there to think that with a sandwich pick and a 2nd for Linebrink, that one of them will be at least as good a prospect as Inman, and again, it's actually quite likely.