Gagne said he doesn't deserve to pitch the 9th, removed from role (reply #40), says he's ready to be the closer again (reply #81)

[ELCABALLO45]

I would hate to see Gagne enter the 9th in a close game in Boston

[brewizard]

Gagne = gone. yay.

[jazzytrav]

People booing him before he throws a pitch can't help his confidence.

I'm not sure how acknowledging this helps anything, though. You can accept his honesty and figure out something to help him get his confidence back, or you can plea with 30,000-40,000 fans every night not to boo him. I'll take option A.

[owbc]

Admittance is the first step to recovery!

 

Now, if we can just get Hall and Weeks to admit that they stink, we'll be making major progress.

 

On a serious note, this makes me suspect that Yost's endless positivity is simply going in one ear and out the other. The players are well aware that they are playing really poorly, but they don't have a manager who will motivate them to improve themselves because he is too busy telling everyone that everything is going to be fine.

 

I like it when the players take responsibility and it has been my main reason for defending Yost, as he isn't the one pitching or swinging the bats. However, at some point, you wonder if someone could do a better job with motivation. These guys aren't rookies anymore. They need to know that if they don't perform, they're going to be on the bench. There has to be more accountability. As much as we love our 1980s Brewers, how do we know that these guys are the best out there? It would be sad to see them all go, but there's so much on the line this year and I'm ready for management to take a risk and dump the entire coaching staff.

[twobrewers]

Luckily for Yost, Melvin works the same way.

Hey O!

 

Well played sir.

[TheRealMattKain]

Realistically, what does next year hold for Gagne? Say hypothetically he loses the closer job, tanks in a middle relief role, and finishes the season with an ERA over 5 or 6. Add this to Mitchell Report allegations and a not-so-blemish-free injury history, is there any way that Gagne could be out of baseball next year? Someone would have to take a league minimum flyer on him, right? Then again, part of me wouldn't be shocked one bit if we never see Gagne again after this year.

For some reason I found great relief and relaxation in this possibility.

[AmyintheSouth]

I would hate to see Gagne enter the 9th in a close game in Boston

Oh good grief, me too. It is disturbing how much people here hate the guy -- yes, he blew a few games but the Sox still won the division and World Series. Get over it.

I hope he finds a good sports psychologist to work with and can turn it around. It's sad that it's come to this, but I do respect that he's acknowledged it.

 

[JohnBriggs12]

On May 10th with 120 some games left, it makes little sense to me to want to run a guy out of town. I wanted them to sign Troy Percival (8 for 9, 2.08 with the Rays), but I realize they are going to need Gagne at some point and to write him off now is counter productive. They lost the game yesterday because the veteran catcher (another FA signing) who has proven not to be such a savior in helping the pitching staff either, couldn't pick up a sign from the 3rd base coach. That to me is inexcusable.

 

Lack of hitting is killing this team followed by poor starting pitching. Gagne isn't do his job but he has plenty of company.

[adamb100]

Well now I can see Ned Yost keep putting Gagne in the 9th in hopes of rebuilding his confidence in which he never does. Figure by august when he has 10+ blown saves he'll be removed.

[JJHardy7]

Some of the points brought up so far make sense in a way, but at the same time don't. Gagne is struggling. Less than a week ago there were plenty of posts around here stating that he is pitching well, but he's just having some bad luck or getting squeezed. Now after a week or so we're running the guy out of town and out of baseball. I thought he was struggling a week ago and he still is. There is one fine point that I think some are missing as to why Gagne is and should be the closer:

 

He's making $10 million this year. Moving Gagne in May to a mop up role isn't going to look good in the eyes of Melvin's boss. The decision to sign Gagne I'm sure will be a high on Melvin's review this year. We aren't the Yankees or Red Sox and for better or worse we can't afford to pay a guy $10 million to not be a key piece to this Brewers team. What is Melvin going to think if Yost (who is getting bashed for reacting slow here, but I think there's more to it this time) takes out his one of his key additions if not the key addition to the 2008 Brewers team. I wouldn't want to be going to the owner and trying to explain a $10 million mop up role. I know we need to win now, but the Brewers don't have the resources to allow a guy making that much money not pan out in May. If it gets to July and the Brewers are out of it, then put Gagne at mop up and know that your job is most likely in jeopardy for the "dead" money of Vargas, Turnbow (paying a guy that much in AAA is not good), and Gagne. A small market team can't make almost $15 million of mistakes in a given year.

 

As far as Pena goes, he's rebounded a bit for Nashville, but I believe his ERA is 6.57 with a WHIP at 1.86 -- he doesn't appear to be ready.

 

Again, I'm not supporting Melvin, Yost, or Gagne here. I'm saying that this is a business and making a huge mistake like Gagne and admitting it in May could be a bad move career wise. Melvin, Yost, and Gagne are probably going to sink or swim together to a certain degree. I'm sorry Mr. Gagne, but signing that $10 million deal makes you the closer. It's nice that you can come out in public and say someone else should close, but since you're not giving that money back your bosses probably expect to get more than a mop up role from you -- or all three may be in the employment line before the end of the season or after the season.

[homer]

So who would replace Gagne as closer? Options from the current roster would be Torres, Mota, Riske, Stetter?? Pena is an option too. I think of all those Torres is the safest bet. Mota probably fits the profile better but my gut tells me he'd have trouble throwing strikes in that role.

[kramnoj]

He's making $10 million this year. Moving Gagne in May to a mop up role isn't going to look good in the eyes of Melvin's boss. The decision to sign Gagne I'm sure will be a high on Melvin's review this year.

 

I would guess that Attanasio cares more about the $80 million he's spending on the Brewers than the $10 million he's paying Gagne. The owner is an investor, he knows that not all moves work out, and that it is important to recognize a sunk cost.

 

The thing that is interesting to me is that Gagne said he doesn't deserve to pitch in the 9th. I wonder if he actually thinks he would pitch better in the 7th ot 8th.

[RightFieldCoder]

What about making decisions that WIN BALLGAMES Ned? Sometimes the benefit of the doubt doesn't work and you have to play the "what have you done for me lately" game.

Yet if a player who never hits lefties has a couple of hot games against righties, Flanders will start him the next game against a lefty because he's "hot".

[Fatter than Joey]

Someone would have to take a league minimum flyer on him, right?

 

Gagne would most likely get a minor league deal.

[AJAY]

JS Online says Gagne is temporarily out as the closer.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I can separate my distaste for him as a closer from my respect for him basically saying "I suck right now"...

 

To me, that's a tough, classy thing to do...

[crewcrazy]

at least he is smarter than are so called manager.

Is Tony La Russa stupid for keeping Isringhausen as his closer until Izzy said he wanted to be taken out, too?

I like the fact that Gagne is admitting to the fact that he shouldn't be out there until he can get his control going, but the problem is that the Brewers really don't have anyone else on staff that could do a better job -- guys like Mota and Riske walk a ton of guys just like Gagne seems to and just like Turnbow used to. While there are a few guys that have pitched well in "lesser" roles this year, how do we know that they won't collapse under the 9th inning pressure like everyone else?

 

Part of me thinks the Brewers would be better off finding a guy who's dumber than a box of rocks and doesn't have the common sense to get nervous in the 9th inning.

 

[jackalope02ca]

Part of me thinks the Brewers would be better off finding a guy who's dumber than a box of rocks and doesn't have the common sense to get nervous in the 9th inning.

So whatever happened to John Rocker????

 

 

[Mr QL]

Glad Gagne manned up to it and that someone is showing some accountability. He probably isn't removed any other way.

 

 

As for who to replace him? I'd just experiment until something works. Mota probably my first choice right now but anyone is an option in my opinion. Even McClung.

[don1481]

JSOnline blog post:

Yost also said the staff has a handle on why Gagne has struggled and blown three of his last six save chances. He didn't reveal what the mechanical flaw was in case s

"It's very simple," Yost said. "I'm not going to tell you and I'm not going into it because it's nobody's real business. Plus I don't want to let anybody know in case the opposing team sees it, but it's a simple adjustment that we think can get him back on track."

Now, Ned, why the heck would you run Gagne out there if you know there's an adjustment that needs to be made in order for him to regain his effectiveness...? I think I'm missing that part here.

 

I hope Doug Melvin or Mark A is aware of these comments to the press.

 

EDIT: It's a "closer by committee" situation:

 

The closer role will now be filled by the entire bullpen, and Yost said it might be as many as three pitchers in the ninth inning if the opposing team's lineup dictates such moves.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I don't really see any reason to believe Gagne will get it turned around enough to be an asset in any bullpen role this season. It's tough to get a handle on what his true talent performance level looks like because there's so little relevant information. You have to basically throw out everything from before the 2 missed seasons - he's obviously not that guy anymore. He's reached the point now where his inept pitching in Boston last season and Milwaukee this season is both a larger sample and more recent than his successful stint in Texas, so I think you're forced to conclude that it is far more likely at this point that he really is just this bad.

 

An optimist might want to split the difference (between Texas Gagne and Bos/Mil Gagne), but then you're saying that the best you could hope for still isn't anywhere near good enough to pitch in late game high leverage situations. And since Gagne's as one-inning a one-inning guy that ever one-inninged, he's not really going to be worth a roster spot in middle relief either.

 

The $10 million is a sunk cost. I think it will eventually come to DFAing Gagne and eating the money. I wouldn't do it today, but sooner would be better than later, and Melvin probably won't even consider it until at least the all-star break.

[naivin]

So what on earth are we supposed to do with this guy? Any chance he would accept a week or two in the minors to try to get himself right? To me that would be ideal. Assuming that isn't what happens though, I'm honestly not sure you don't send him out there one or two more times sooner than later, and literally hope he can turn himself around. If he can't close, he has very little value. I don't exactly see him flourishing, or even getting any better in a set-up role.

 

The Brewers must figure something out though. The only way I see them having any success at all this year is if Gagne has success in the 9th inning. That has been the case since before the season started.

[JJHardy7]

I would guess that Attanasio cares more about the $80 million he's spending on the Brewers than the $10 million he's paying Gagne. The owner is an investor, he knows that not all moves work out, and that it is important to recognize a sunk cost.

 

The $10 million though is 1/8th of the payroll. That is the problem. Not all moves do work out, but for a small market team that hopes to make the playoffs and continue to increase payroll there isn't a large room for error. My point is that moving Gagne out of the closer role has more to it than just some of the results he's had. It makes Melvin look bad and Yost doesn't want to make his boss look bad. There's more dynamics than Gagne's results so far.

 

This move would be the biggest move in terms of dollars that don't work out (at least based on a per year basis) and I have to imagine that the investor is aware of that. I really don't buy Gagne's claim that it's mental. I think it's more his injury cost him some talent or HGH helped his arm recover and stay a little more fresh. How can you win a Cy Young and have the numbers he has and then mentally struggle in Milwaukee? It doesn't add up.

[kramnoj]

My point is that moving Gagne out of the closer role has more to it than just some of the results he's had. It makes Melvin look bad and Yost doesn't want to make his boss look bad. There's more dynamics than Gagne's results so far.

 

This is a guess on my part, but I imagine Attanasio cares more about winning games than whether one employee hire works out. If Yost wants to make his boss look good, he should try to win as many games as possible this season, and not focus on the results of one player.

 

This move would be the biggest move in terms of dollars that don't work out (at least based on a per year basis) and I have to imagine that the investor is aware of that.

 

An investor that recognizes a sunk cost realizes that a risk was taken and it failed, and then he moves on, putting the bad investment out of his mind, because he can't do anything about it anymore. Gagne is going to get his salary no matter if he pitches another inning, or what inning he pitches in. The team should try to objectively determine what value Gagne has for this team going forward, and ignore that 12 % of the payroll is involved in the decision.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

That was some quality analysis from Wall Street.