The Florida Marlins, a Well Run Organization?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

I'm sure some will read the thread title and wonder if I intended to make it blue. At first glance, one would think that that Florida Marlins are one of the worst franchines in sports, especially considering that they often play first place baseball in front of home crowds smaller than 10,000. However, after reading the Hanley Ramirez article about him signing a 6 year $70 million dollar deal, it occurred to me just how much "talent" has made its way through Florida in their first 15 years of existance.

 

Sure, their stadium stinks, the weather stinks, the ownership stinks, but in order to stockpile and continue to reload the type of talent they've had, they surely have had some decent GMs. You could argue that they "bought their WS rings", but in many ways they built up a team, traded for a few missing pieces, and then traded away the team to load up for another run.

 

I'm sure many thought they were throwing the white flag after their trade with Detroit this past winter, but i think in actuality that they essentially are well positioned for another title run in the next 3-4 years. Does the franchise deserve it (or does the fan-base deserve it)? No, not really. But the fact is they are MUCH better at reloading/rebuilding than Milwaukee.

 

Does that have to do with the weather? The low/no income tax in Florida? Miami beach? Like it or not, they have 2 WS titles in the past 15 years, we have zero. They are in first place, our 2-5 starters haven't won a game since hte first week of April.

 

What gives?

[crossface21]

The way the Marlins have run the organization in the past may not have been the "traditional way" of building up your team with farm guys then get the few missing pieces you need through trades/free agency, but you can't argue with the fact that they have 2 WS rings already and the Brewers still have none. They have had some awful years, but up unitl the last 2 years, it was probably a lot more fun to be one of the three Marlins fans rather than one of the thousands of Brewer fans for the past 15 years.

[MickeyDavis]

Hard to argue with success. Less revenue than we do, crappy stadium and two titles.

[DrWood]

when it comes down to it, it takes luck to win a WS. If they lost the NL championship series each of those years, would you still covet their success?

[BrewCrewForever]

I was quite surprised when I saw on the ESPN Bottomline this morning that they had signed Ramirez to a 6 year extension. I figured he would be another star shipped out of town. Maybe with that new stadium on the way they are gonna try to hold on to these good young players.

[endaround]

They made Loria more money than god while having the rest of MLB pick up the check.

[DougJones43]

when it comes down to it, it takes luck to win a WS. If they lost the NL championship series each of those years, would you still covet their success?

 

I would. Making it to the NLCS would be sweet. Making the playoffs would be sweet. Winning 91 games would be sweet. At least I think those things would be sweet, I actually have no idea what it feels like...

[Ennder]

I think they have been more lucky than well run but it is a pretty hard thing to prove one way or the other.

[Invader3K]

Yes, I would still love it if the Brewers had made it to the the playoffs once or twice over the last ten or so years and fallen short. At least it would be _something_. Much better than our one winning season in the past fifteen years, for sure.

 

The Marlins are pretty unique. I don't think there's another team that really follows their model, but it obviously has worked for them, to an extent.

[DrWood]

the point is not whether making the playoffs would be a good thing or not, but whether it would be a good thing if your team did that, then dismantled the team the next year.

[Braminano]

Dolphin Stadium is in the middle of nowhere, it's not even close to Miami. You can understand 50000 making it out to Dolphins games since they only have 8 a year, but there's no way you're going to have consistent attendance numbers playing 81 games in such an awful location. I think the new stadium will change the way the organization handles its payroll and talent.

[owbc]

I'm not arguing that it's right, but they are successfully using the current economic system in MLB to their advantage, as well as the bad stadium conditions in South Florida. Due to the stadium location and bad weather, the only way to turn a profit is to have a consistently low payroll which means it must consist of mostly young players. When their young talent needs to be signed, it is usually sold off for prospects. It doesn't matter if the Marlins win 85 games or 65, their attendance is going to be about the same either way.

 

I think the World Series titles are a result of luck as much as a consistent strategy. Look at Loria in Montreal. He had no intention of ever building the team into a contender. I think he feels the same way in Florida. He just is making money by having a young, cheap team, and if they happen to succeed, he has the cash to give them a piece or two to help out. If not, he can continue profiting while attendance is still 10,000 and good players continue to get traded away for young ones. Look at the Tigers trade--it was proposed by the Marlins and the Tigers never negotiated. The Marlins got rid of Cabrera and Willis and in exchange got yet another group of prospects.

 

The Ramirez signing is kind of a surprise, but clearing out arbitration years will actually save them money, while Ramirez gains financial security and the knowledge of exactly when he will be able to sign a mega-deal with a big market if he continues to progress.

 

The Brewers have more of a "win now' strategy. If we were the Marlins, Ben Sheets would have been traded in the offseason for prospects. We wouldn't have added expensive veterans. The fanbase would have been furious. In Florida, they can get away with it because nobody cares.

[DougJones43]

the point is not whether making the playoffs would be a good thing or not, but whether it would be a good thing if your team did that, then dismantled the team the next year.

Florida Marlins record since 2004 (the year the "dismantling" began): 336-347 / .492 Win%

 

Milwaukee Brewers record since 2004 (no WS, no playoffs, no dismantling): 323-359 / .474 Win%

 

So yeah, I still covet the way their organization has done things. And they haven't had the new stadium to help them out, which the Brewers have. That's going to help them even more, and they may be able to delay/avoid the firesales, as evidenced by the Ramirez signing.

[logan82]

DougJones43 wrote:

That's going to help them even more, and they may be able to delay/avoid the firesales, as evidenced by the Ramirez signing.

I think that Ramirez contract will make him look really good to other teams wanting to trade for him.