Be objective...value of Prince and Sheets?

[DrWood]

melky is a good player, and quite young. He plays a great OF, and could well develop significant power. He'd allow them to let Cameron walk next season.

[Invader3K]

I think Melky will be an OK-ish player...I don't think he's ever going to be a powerhouse offensively. I think he tends to be a bit overvalued because he's a Yankee. That doesn't mean I wouldn't mind him being Cameron's replacement down the line, but don't think we should sell the farm to get him, either.

[ILuvDaBush]

Just out of curiousity, would the Brewers do a Dustin McGowan for Ben Sheets trade? They have a bigger budget and would be in a better position to sign him longterm, especially if AJ opts out at the end of the year, which is all but a foregone conclusion since he's been healthy this year and he's been pitching well. I know that with the Overbay trade, the piece Melvin and Ash wanted was McGowan so there has been interest for awhile. I could see having to throw the Jays another piece to complete the deal, as Ben would only be under their control for a few months if they failed to sign him, but it would seem to be a fair enough trade. Perhaps, make it Gamel and Sheets for McGowan and Accardo? Jesse Carlson has been pitching well in their bullpen and BJ Ryan has looked good thus far. Any feedback?

[GAME05]

In my opinion both players are really untradable for the teams future. As a middle market team, we need to pay for the talent that is worth is, and let go mediocre players. Instead we have responded by letting go of talent, ie Lee, and Cordero, and paid for mediocrity Gagne, Suppan. I feel many members of the forum here are stuck in the team's past. Are payroll continues to increase and we actually have talented team. There is no reason to be talking of selling off our best players, we are past that development stage as a team.

i don't think a team is ever out of the development stage. certainly we have a growing budget to take more risks, but to resign everyone would have it balloon out of control (see: Yankees). In addition, trading players away at the deadline brings in additional talent to supplement the draft and strengthen the farm. Develop a young Braun and Hart and it frees up money to spend on problem areas. And sure, Lee and Cordero are playing well with their new teams, but for every player that has worked out, there's a Zito and a Giambi. The A's are full of great young players they got in those trades. Gagne and Suppan are both examples of what our growing budget gives us flexibility to do. They weren't exactly scrubs when we signed them.

 

[Gopher74]

, but the guys that are in the top 1-2% of the league are really irreplaceable, for all practical matters. You can make the team better by trading them for quality players, but even that is hard to do.

It's hard to do, the earlier you deal a player like Prince, the more likely that becomes. If for instance you can get a guy like Kershaw+Broxton+LaRoche for Prince and a prospect, then slide LaPorta or Gamel into 3rd, I think this team is significantly better for both the short term and the long term. Obviously have a guy who can fill in like Gamel or LaPorta is huge in this equation. I actually think that Kershaw and Broxton would be enough to get Prince, but if we tossed in a good prospect(a 6-12 type), then perhaps LaRoche.

Anyway, just being able to get another young prospect who could be a frontline guy, even if we just got that and we could replace Prince with a .285/.395 and 30 HR a year guy in either LaPorta or Gamel...which frankly is on the low end, I think we'd be a better team for it.

 

 

 

The problem is I think this team is going to re-sign Prince. I think Mark A feels as though he has to re-sign Prince, and that's going to cost us other players that we can less afford to lose. For starters, Ben Sheets.

[jjfanec]

I love Prince, but I think gopher's hypothetical Fielder (and maybe a lower prospect) for Kershaw, Broxton, LaRoche deal would make this team better. You get another potential ace pitcher, a potential future closer, and a third baseman who has a terrific OBP. It fits our needs really well, future closer, top-end lefty pitcher, and high OBP guy. You then allow Gamel or LaPorta to be a first baseman, and the other to be in the outfield along with Braun and Hart. Now none of those guys will match Prince's best numbers but it frees us up financially in the future as well. I dont think we will see Prince traded though because of the backlash it will have with fans, especially this early when we still control him for a few more years.

 

A lineup of

Weeks 2B

LaRoche 3B

Braun LF

LaPorta RF

Hart CF

Gamel 1B

Hardy SS

Kendall or other at C

 

With a rotation of Yo, Kershaw, Parra, Suppan, Villy, with the possibility of keeping Sheets because we arent concerned with locking Prince up. And Broxton with other in the bullpen looks nice on paper to me.

[Gopher74]

I love Prince, but I think gopher's hypothetical Fielder (and maybe a lower prospect) for Kershaw, Broxton, LaRoche deal would make this team better. You get another potential ace pitcher, a potential future closer, and a third baseman who has a terrific OBP. It fits our needs really well, future closer, top-end lefty pitcher, and high OBP guy.

For the life of me I simply can't understand why the Dodgers don't like LaRoche and why they haven't given him a chance yet. I believe he's banged up right now, but all the same.

And one thing I should make clear, the Brewers are going to have to send something back. Something most likely substantial in terms of prospects. Maybe a guy like Brent Brewer. Maybe Cole Gillispie, Cain, someone in that area. Prince is great, but I have to think that Kershaw, Broxton and LaRoche is worth more than Prince.

Now none of those guys will match Prince's best numbers but it frees us up financially in the future as well. I dont think we will see Prince traded though because of the backlash it will have with fans, especially this early when we still control him for a few more years.

 

That's exactly it. Prince won't be traded and most likely they'll lock him up long term, but I wish they would. And no, Gamel or LaPorta may not equal Prince's numbers, but they could come close with Gamel IMO being a .315/.400 type hitter with 30-35 HR's and LaPorta a .285/.410 guy with 40+ HR's. The difference is small enough that the other factors make it so obvious to me. But Mark A will IMO lock Prince up to a deal that he probably shouldn't.

 

With a rotation of Yo, Kershaw, Parra, Suppan, Villy, with the possibility of keeping Sheets because we arent concerned with locking Prince up. And Broxton with other in the bullpen looks nice on paper to me.

Man, that rotation could be just filthy. Lets not forget, Parra could be a number 2. That'd be 3 aces(assuming we kept sheets which I believe we would) and a number 2 and a 3 potentially. Ah, it's a unrealistic scenario, but a fun one all the same. As soon as Kershaw comes up and starts dominating, that's no longer going to be realistic.

[jjfanec]

I agree with 100% on the trade idea Gopher, but if the Brewers do trade Prince it will be the winter or summer before his free agent year. I just dont see us trading him when we still have control over him. Even though i think his arby numbers could be through the roof. To me if the team feels LaPorta and Gamel are ready and they can get a package that includes and potential 1/2 pitcher like a Kershaw and another impact player you would have to think long and hard about. To me it is how a small market team has to run. It isnt like if we trade Prince we wont have anyone left to hit. Gamel and LaPorta project great. Braun is a stud and the one I would lock up long term. You have Corey Hart who is solid and then guys like Hardy and Weeks who we dont know what we exactly have with them.

We know the Dodgers are desperate for bats after the money they gave Pierre and Jones the past couple years, but they probably feel like they have their 1B of the future with James Loney. It sure is fun to speculate though. It is fun to think of how filthy of a rotation the Brewers could have.

[Oldcity]

The problem with waiting to trade Fielder until his walk year is that your return won't be as high. The earlier you trade him, the bigger return you'd get.

 

I'd just as soon see the Brewers hold on to him until he becomes a free agent. If they can't sign him, that extra year of Fielder+compensation picks is probably better than a trade.

[jjfanec]

The problem with waiting to trade Fielder until his walk year is that your return won't be as high. The earlier you trade him, the bigger return you'd get.

 

I'd just as soon see the Brewers hold on to him until he becomes a free agent. If they can't sign him, that extra year of Fielder+compensation picks is probably better than a trade.

I would like to hold onto Fielder too, but I don't know if it makes sense to hold him and get the comp picks since he could net a high return. To me Sheets is the kind of guy you hold out for and keep for a year and get the comp picks because his trade value isnt that high. Fielder, on the other hand, is a very tradeable commodity. I am definitely in no rush to see him go, but would you trade Fielder for Yo type player and one more impact player?

 

[Oldcity]

For example, someone mentioned Kershaw, Billingsley/Broxton. A team isn't going to give up that quality of a package for only one year of Fielder.

[Never Outhustled]

I agree with the majority here that Fielder could be trade-able for 2 reasons: the fact that he likely won't (and shouldn't be) signed to a long term contract, and because of the presence of awesome hitting prospects Matt Laporta and Matt Gamel.

 

Dan Haren showed us the trade value of a bigtime player who isn't eligible for free agency anytimme soon this past offseason. He was dealt for Arizona's #1,3,7,8, & 13 prospects, plus Dana Eveland. I think the offers being promoted here are in line with that. Fielder is likely worth slightly more than Haren simply because of his age and marketability. Teams that don't see him play everyday might not be truly aware of how atrocious defensively he still is.

 

I propose a 3 way deal:

 

Brewers get:

 

Chad Billingsly

Joakin Soria

Jonathon Meloan

 

Kansas City get:

 

James Loney

 

LA Dodgers get:

 

Prince Fielder

 

 

I really love Billingsly. I think he has Ace potential, and is still 4 years from FA. The Dodgers have a number of starting pitchers under multi-year contracts, and have Kershaw on the way. Soria is an outstanding closer, and is also 4 years from FA. However, closers are a luxory for rebuilding teams, and the Royals are horrid at 1B. Ross Gload is struggling badly, and Ryan Shealy is even worse at AAA. Meloan should make a high quality middle reliever. All players invloled are roughly fielders age. Laporta can take over at 1B, and Gamel can start preparing for his inevitable move to RF. Or vice versa. Either guy in either spot works for me. Unlike many of the Brewers present hitters, Laporta hits RHP well.

[splitterpfj]

Buster Olney was just on 1070 AM in Madison, they asked him about the trade value of both Sheets and Fielder, he said:

 

Sheets would bring an A- prospect and a B prospect, but he thinks Attanasio is too competitive to give up in July.

 

He said he thinks Fielder will be traded, either after this season, or after 2009, and that Prince would bring, "four good players." He compared the situation to Texas' trade of Mark Teixeira last season. Olney said he thinks that deal brought the best value of any recent deal, and that the Brewers would do the same with Prince.

[Gopher74]

The problem with waiting to trade Fielder until his walk year is that your return won't be as high. The earlier you trade him, the bigger return you'd get.

 

I'd just as soon see the Brewers hold on to him until he becomes a free agent. If they can't sign him, that extra year of Fielder+compensation picks is probably better than a trade.

Yes, of course if we wait to trade him that long the package is going to be much lower. I don't agree at all though that Prince Fielder+ a year of comp picks is better than what we'd get for Prince at that point. I mean, unless that year of him brings you a WS ring. Look at what teams get for superstars the year before they hit the market? The bidding war for Johan, what we got for Lee alone would be somewhat close to that. I think you can still get a lot for Prince at that point, but the problem is that you're right, you're not going to get AS much, and that we're still not fixing the SP'ing problem right now, and you're wasting years of Gamel and or LaPorta.

 

The Dodgers have a number of starting pitchers under multi-year contracts, and have Kershaw on the way.

Actually they don't. Lowe, Penny, and Schmidt are all going to be FA's by the end of next year with Lowe a FA this year and Penny a potential FA this year. So you're left with Bills and Kudora, but you're trading away Kudora here.

 

Anyway, I was the one who came up with the Dodgers trade, but for whatever reason, Loney escaped me at the moment. Knowing they have him, I don't see why they'd trade for Prince when it'd mean losing Kershaw or Billingsley. Loney's a Derek Lee type player in that he'll be a future GG at 1st and could easily turn into a .285/.390 30/100 type player.

And if we did make this deal, I'd rather have Kershaw than Bills. I love Billingsley, but I think Kershaw's got the higher upside and is very close to reaching it. I wouldn't be upset with either, but you also would get Kershaw for an additional 3 years.

 

So if the Dodgers didn't have, or didn't want Loney, or could move him to the OF, I'd rather just trade for Broxton and one of those two, preferably Kershaw over Soria and Bills.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts -1992)

[nate82]

Trade Sheets for Ian Kennedy, Phil Hughes, and Chris Britton. Would probably have to throw in another player for this trade to work though.