Ned's Last Stand: When would it happen?

[RU Rah Rah]

I am conflicted. I don't want the team to lose, but I know that losing would expedite Ned's departure -- which would be for the greater good.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't think he could survive a 3-6 or worse homestand.

 

At this point I think it's pretty clear that it'd take a much, much longer stretch of terrible baseball for Yost to get fired. If he was safe last season, I think he's safe for '08.

[Iron Chef Napalm]

It is my contention that winning the Pirate's series is clear evidence of the malevolent insipidness of the Pittsburgh Curse. More dastardly than a minor losing streak, this helps continue Nedly's loathsome grip on the heart of all Brewerfandom. The evil of Pittsburgh far surpasses the frivolous malice of any goat, jersey, or legend.

[Bring Back the Stein]

It is my contention that winning the Pirate's series is clear evidence of the malevolent insipidness of the Pittsburgh Curse. More dastardly than a minor losing streak, this helps continue Nedly's loathsome grip on the heart of all Brewerfandom. The evil of Pittsburgh far surpasses the frivolous malice of any goat, jersey, or legend.

I just can't muster any hatred for the Pirates or Pittsburgh. As an organization, they had Clemente and Pops. As a city, it's pretty much Milwaukee with mountains. Good corned beef in the Jewish neighborhood, great stadium and the Warhol museum's really cool.

 

As for historical enemies of the Milwaukee Braves or Milwaukee Brewers, the Yankees, Cubs and Cardinals are far more evil than the Pirates. However, I will cede the point that if a Pittsburgh sweep helps to continue the Yost junta, then certainly some evil points for Pittsburgh do obtain.

[olliegjw]

I am conflicted. I don't want the team to lose, but I know that losing would expedite Ned's departure -- which would be for the greater good.

There is absolutely no evidence that a change in manager's would make the team any better.

[pete]

How about Jack McKeon's record? And, of course, many (most?) believe that someone with as much involvement in the operations and performance of the team affect that team.

[olliegjw]

How about Jack McKeon's record? And, of course, many (most?) believe that someone with as much involvement in the operations and performance of the team affect that team.

Wow, a career .518 winning percentage. That might get us to .500. For every Jack McKeon, there are 50 managers who have done nothing when brought in mid-season.

 

The people that know the most about what the manager does on, and off, the field have confidence in Yost. That would be Melvin, Mark A., and the players. If the players had a problem with Yost, it surely would have come out to Melvin in the after season player meetings last year. So, obviously that isn't the case.

[pete]

I was talking about his record of turning around teams. You said that there was "absolutely no evidence." And a ratio of fifty to one? I doubt that, but I'm not sure I care.

 

I have no idea if the people on and off the field have confidence in Yost. So I wouldn't conclude something like that. Do you think Yost should get more time after this year? Two? Three? Four?

[olliegjw]

I was talking about his record of turning around teams. You said that there was "absolutely no evidence." And a ratio of fifty to one? I doubt that, but I'm not sure I care.

 

I have no idea if the people on and off the field have confidence in Yost. So I wouldn't conclude something like that. Do you think Yost should get more time after this year? Two? Three? Four?

How many managers have been changed mid-season, and how many have made the playoffs? The only ones that have made the playoffs are McKeon, Kuehn, and I believe there was one other.

 

If you mean that they will just start playing better with a new manager, that would be impossible to prove. So far, most Brewers players have played worse than expectations. By the end of the year, most of them should be close to projections (there are always exceptions). So, regardless of who's the manager (including Yost), odds are good that the Brewers will play better from here on out. Just like in 2007. The Brewers started out on fire, but slowed down. They finished right around their pre-season projections.

[olliegjw]

How about Jack McKeon's record? And, of course, many (most?) believe that someone with as much involvement in the operations and performance of the team affect that team.

I'll give you Jack McKeon and raise you Clint Hurdle. Going into 2007, he was 352-436 for a career .447 winning percentage. On June 1, last year the Rockies were 25-30 (worse than the Brewers current record). How did that turn out for them?

[pete]

Slowed down is one way to put it. So how many years for Ned? Two more? 3-4-5? More?

[pete]

I give you Ned Yost, a perennial failure - at least to me.

[olliegjw]

Slowed down is one way to put it. So how many years for Ned? Two more? 3-4-5? More?

I think the manager has very little effect on the outcome, so it doesn't matter how many more years. Should Leyland, Girardi, Black, and Torre be fired because they aren't in first place. I have seen many posters and fans hold these managers in high regards through the years. Only one has a better record than the Brewers this year, even though they all have as much talent as the Brewers.

[olliegjw]

I give you Ned Yost, a perennial failure - at least to me.

If you were a Rockies fan, you would have said the same thing about Clint Hurdle at this time last year. You would have been wrong then too. It comes down to having talent (which the Brewers have lacked until the last two years), and the talent playing to their abilities (which the Brewers are growing into).

[BrewCrewForever]

Slowed down is one way to put it. So how many years for Ned? Two more? 3-4-5? More?

I think the manager has very little effect on the outcome, so it doesn't matter how many more years. Should Leyland, Girardi, Black, and Torre be fired because they aren't in first place. I have seen many posters and fans hold these managers in high regards through the years. Only one has a better record than the Brewers this year, even though they all have as much talent as the Brewers.

The guys you mentioned above have been winners. Yost has not, that is why they shouldn't be fired.

 

[olliegjw]

Slowed down is one way to put it. So how many years for Ned? Two more? 3-4-5? More?

I think the manager has very little effect on the outcome, so it doesn't matter how many more years. Should Leyland, Girardi, Black, and Torre be fired because they aren't in first place. I have seen many posters and fans hold these managers in high regards through the years. Only one has a better record than the Brewers this year, even though they all have as much talent as the Brewers.

The guys you mentioned above have been winners. Yost has not, that is why they shouldn't be fired.

 

 

And Clint Hurdle last year? Should he have been fired at this point in the season.

 

Edit: What made them winners? It was the players performing to their abilities. Have they forgotten how to manage this year? Leyland has more talent now than any of his Pittsburgh teams.

[TooLiveBrew]

The guys you mentioned above have been winners. Yost has not, that is why they shouldn't be fired.

 

The notion that a manager's W-L record tells you his skill is not a good one imo. The manager has very little control over the players he's given.

[BrewCrewForever]

You know you make a good point. I guess I dunno, but tell me would you rather have Yost as our a choice of Torre/Leyland?

[olliegjw]

You know you make a good point. I guess I dunno, but tell me would you rather have Yost as our a choice of Torre/Leyland?

 

That is a good question for the end of the season, but at this point, you will not find a Torre or Leyland or anyone of that "caliber" available to replace Yost. With that being the case, Yost is the best option for the rest of this season.

[jazzytrav]

Should Leyland, Girardi, Black, and Torre be fired because they aren't in first place. I have seen many posters and fans hold these managers in high regards through the years.

You can't compare Yost to managers that have made it deep into the playoffs or won the World Series, or in Torre's case, won many World Series. When you take a team that far, you get a longer leash in the future. I don't understand the argument that he shouldn't be fired because he hasn't done any worse than other competent managers. He hasn't done anything in his time as manager besides take a bunch of top prospects and have one winning season with them. In my opinion, he doesn't deserve the length of leash that he's getting.

[pete]

olliegjw wrote:

 

That is a good question for the end of the season, but at this point, you will not find a Torre or Leyland or anyone of that "caliber"

available to replace Yost. With that being the case, Yost is the best option for the rest of this season.

 

 

You don't know that. You don't know how good any of the people who might take over will be. There were plenty of folks like you trashing Torre and Leyland before they had the reputation.

 

If I wanted I could go back and use your own arguments against you, but you're devoted to Yost as a semi-permanent manager regardless. Just say it and everybody will accept it.

[BrewCrewForever]

Should Leyland, Girardi, Black, and Torre be fired because they aren't in first place. I have seen many posters and fans hold these managers in high regards through the years.

You can't compare Yost to managers that have made it deep into the playoffs or won the World Series, or in Torre's case, won many World Series. When you take a team that far, you get a longer leash in the future. I don't understand the argument that he shouldn't be fired because he hasn't done any worse than other competent managers. He hasn't done anything in his time as manager besides take a bunch of top prospects and have one winning season with them. In my opinion, he doesn't deserve the length of leash that he's getting.

Thank you jazzytrav, that is kind of what I was trying to get at.

 

[1992casey]

This thread seems to have run its course. Recent posts are nowhere near the parameters set in the lead.